Urgent LS1 AND 4l80E problem
09-29-2007, 10:47 AM
#1
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Urgent LS1 AND 4l80E problem Got a big problem and need some urgent help
i was supposed to be starting the engine today for the first time in my custom build- i have all sorts of people come round to help and i have hit a brick wall.
I have a 01 LS1 from a firebird and a new custom build 4l80 with a manual valve body. I have a TCI flex plate and a spacer ring from PATC transmission centre.
the last job i had to do was fit the spacer between the crank and the flexplate. So i bolted that all up- the T/C is bolted to the flexplate, which is bolted to the crank with the spacer slotted between the flexplate and the crank. It's all gone together really well with no problems- everything rotates as it should and i'm quite happy with how it works.
BUT i can't get the car started becuase the flex plate (with the starting ring attached) is now too far away from the started motor for the motor to engage with the flex plate- I can't get the car to turn over to start the car
i have read a lot of threads about fitting 4L80s to LS1s and i'm sure i haven't read that you need a different starter motor. do i? i am now starting to worry that i am doing something seriouly wrong with the install of the gearbox. how can i fix this really very quickly guys?
i was supposed to be starting the engine today for the first time in my custom build- i have all sorts of people come round to help and i have hit a brick wall.
I have a 01 LS1 from a firebird and a new custom build 4l80 with a manual valve body. I have a TCI flex plate and a spacer ring from PATC transmission centre.
the last job i had to do was fit the spacer between the crank and the flexplate. So i bolted that all up- the T/C is bolted to the flexplate, which is bolted to the crank with the spacer slotted between the flexplate and the crank. It's all gone together really well with no problems- everything rotates as it should and i'm quite happy with how it works.
BUT i can't get the car started becuase the flex plate (with the starting ring attached) is now too far away from the started motor for the motor to engage with the flex plate- I can't get the car to turn over to start the car
i have read a lot of threads about fitting 4L80s to LS1s and i'm sure i haven't read that you need a different starter motor. do i? i am now starting to worry that i am doing something seriouly wrong with the install of the gearbox. how can i fix this really very quickly guys?
09-29-2007, 02:31 PM
#3
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thanks for the reply, but i don't understand what you mean?
do you mean the flex plate goes on to the crank and then the spacer is fitted? in which case i will still have a big gap between the torque converter and flexplate. Or do i have to pull the torque converter away from the gearbox until it hits the flex plate- in which case why bother having a spacer at all?
do you mean the flex plate goes on to the crank and then the spacer is fitted? in which case i will still have a big gap between the torque converter and flexplate. Or do i have to pull the torque converter away from the gearbox until it hits the flex plate- in which case why bother having a spacer at all?
09-29-2007, 04:57 PM
#4
What kind of converter is it?
I can't tell what you're working with but the adapter is used so the crank pilot on the converter will center on the crank. The spacer is for non LSX converters that have short crank pilots that don't reach the crank.
TCI flexplate #399753 doesn't work with 4L80E's.
Whats your flexplate number?
I can't tell what you're working with but the adapter is used so the crank pilot on the converter will center on the crank. The spacer is for non LSX converters that have short crank pilots that don't reach the crank.
TCI flexplate #399753 doesn't work with 4L80E's.
Whats your flexplate number?
09-29-2007, 05:53 PM
#5
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thanks for the reply
the converter is a stock GM 4l80e although i can't remember what vehicle it is designed for!
the piccie you posted is exactly what i have bought for the spacer. Flexplate is not a TCI plate (my bad) but was supplied as an 4l80e plate suitable for LS1s by Gearstar.
I'm getting way confused here- could you possibly give me an idiots guide to solving my problems on the basis that i have all the correct bits of hardware.
the flexplate goes onto the crank, and then the spacer bolts through the flex plate into the crank- are the 6 bolts supplied with the spacer crank bolts or torque converter bolts?
the flex plate then bolts to the torque converter- which makes me think one of two things are going to happen- either the torque converter is going to get pulled very close to the flex plate (which worries me that the torque converter might be disengaged from the oil pump), or the spacer will prevent the torque converter from meeting the flex plate in which case there will be a gap between the torque converter bolts holes and the flex plate (ie the torque convert bolts won't meet). Either way it doesn't sound good to me.
i can tell you straight away that at the moment the crank pilot on the t/c won't centre on the torque converter- but i didn't know it had to.
One thing i don't quite get is how tight the flex plate should be bolted to the T/C- can the bolts be quite loose?
the converter is a stock GM 4l80e although i can't remember what vehicle it is designed for!
the piccie you posted is exactly what i have bought for the spacer. Flexplate is not a TCI plate (my bad) but was supplied as an 4l80e plate suitable for LS1s by Gearstar.
I'm getting way confused here- could you possibly give me an idiots guide to solving my problems on the basis that i have all the correct bits of hardware.
the flexplate goes onto the crank, and then the spacer bolts through the flex plate into the crank- are the 6 bolts supplied with the spacer crank bolts or torque converter bolts?
the flex plate then bolts to the torque converter- which makes me think one of two things are going to happen- either the torque converter is going to get pulled very close to the flex plate (which worries me that the torque converter might be disengaged from the oil pump), or the spacer will prevent the torque converter from meeting the flex plate in which case there will be a gap between the torque converter bolts holes and the flex plate (ie the torque convert bolts won't meet). Either way it doesn't sound good to me.
i can tell you straight away that at the moment the crank pilot on the t/c won't centre on the torque converter- but i didn't know it had to.
One thing i don't quite get is how tight the flex plate should be bolted to the T/C- can the bolts be quite loose?
09-29-2007, 07:39 PM
#6
The flexplate goes on the crank, then the spacer, and the bolts that came with it.
75 ft pounds torque on those.
Now take the converter out of the trans and hold it up to the flexplate, the pilot should go into the spacer by at least 1/8 inch before the converter bolt pads touch.
If that checks out ok, put the converter in the trans and attach it to the engine. spin the converter now and then while you get the trans to engine bolts on to make sure the converter spins free.
When you get it all bolted up make sure the converter is all the way into the trans. Then pull it toward the flexplate 3/16" maximum, at this point the pilot on the converter should be at least 1/8" into the spacer plate.
If the converter doesn't touch the flexplate, and the pilot is engaged you can use some high quality spacers or washers between the flexplate and converter. I have used up to 1/4 inch of washers with no problems.
Make sure the torque converter bolts are the right length, they can bottom out and feel tight but not pull the converter tight. usually get them snug and move the converter, then make an additional 1/2 turn to torque them down. and make the converter tight to the flexplate.
75 ft pounds torque on those.
Now take the converter out of the trans and hold it up to the flexplate, the pilot should go into the spacer by at least 1/8 inch before the converter bolt pads touch.
If that checks out ok, put the converter in the trans and attach it to the engine. spin the converter now and then while you get the trans to engine bolts on to make sure the converter spins free.
When you get it all bolted up make sure the converter is all the way into the trans. Then pull it toward the flexplate 3/16" maximum, at this point the pilot on the converter should be at least 1/8" into the spacer plate.
If the converter doesn't touch the flexplate, and the pilot is engaged you can use some high quality spacers or washers between the flexplate and converter. I have used up to 1/4 inch of washers with no problems.
Make sure the torque converter bolts are the right length, they can bottom out and feel tight but not pull the converter tight. usually get them snug and move the converter, then make an additional 1/2 turn to torque them down. and make the converter tight to the flexplate.
Last edited by 8a8mfh; 09-29-2007 at 07:53 PM. Reason: at this point the pilot on the converter should be at least 1/8" into the spacer plate.
10-01-2007, 05:23 AM
#7
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Many thanks for your in depth reply- it is much appreciated and all starts to make sense.
I am very wary of taking the T/C off the trans as i have broken a T/C in the past when i didn't re-engage the t/c onto the gearbox oil pump properly. I'll go and do some research on the internet to find out how to properly install a torque converter.
Many thanks
Jim
I am very wary of taking the T/C off the trans as i have broken a T/C in the past when i didn't re-engage the t/c onto the gearbox oil pump properly. I'll go and do some research on the internet to find out how to properly install a torque converter.
Many thanks
Jim
