Stock Trans Tuning Advice
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From: Philly
Stock Trans Tuning Advice I'm getting a dynotune on Thursday. The dynotune includes all the basics: AFR adjustment, timing advance and a full trans tune. My transmission is completely stock, so I'm curious as to what I should have requested to do in terms of torque management removal or line pressure adjustments.
For all you guys out there that have a stock transmission with a trans tune, what did you guys have done? I intend on having the torque management left 100% active on the 3-4 shift, but what about the 1-2 and 2-3 shift? Should I remove all TM on the 1-2 shift and lessen it on the 2-3 shift? Should I have the line pressure increased or keep that stock?
I'd like to have the shifts firmed up a bit, but I hate the idea of substantially raising line pressure to do that. I also like the idea of quickening the shifts and getting rid of the timing reduction that TM does, but I don't like the idea of frying bands...so I'm at a loss
What do the trans tuning gurus recommend for TM reduction and line pressure on a bone stock 4L60E?
Thanks in advance
For all you guys out there that have a stock transmission with a trans tune, what did you guys have done? I intend on having the torque management left 100% active on the 3-4 shift, but what about the 1-2 and 2-3 shift? Should I remove all TM on the 1-2 shift and lessen it on the 2-3 shift? Should I have the line pressure increased or keep that stock?
I'd like to have the shifts firmed up a bit, but I hate the idea of substantially raising line pressure to do that. I also like the idea of quickening the shifts and getting rid of the timing reduction that TM does, but I don't like the idea of frying bands...so I'm at a loss
What do the trans tuning gurus recommend for TM reduction and line pressure on a bone stock 4L60E?
Thanks in advance
Not exactly what you're looking for since I have a 3600 stall and a shift kit. But fwiw, I used a transgo shift kit (non HD-2) to firm up the shifts while leaving the line pressure stock. And I removed TM. I have 107,7xx on my car with 7k on this setup and it's holding up well enough so far with bolt-ons.
I also lowered my lockup speed to 42 and unlock at 38 in 4th. Lock/ unlock at 30 in 3rd.
I also lowered my lockup speed to 42 and unlock at 38 in 4th. Lock/ unlock at 30 in 3rd.
How many miles are on the trans and is it in good working order? I would leave the line pressure alone. Decreasing the shift time will give firmer shifts; so you can adjust based on your preference. Some will say leave TM, but I say remove it. The LS1 F-body TM is nowhere near as intrusive as LS2 and later equipped vehicles. I had 65K miles and over 130 track passes on the stock tranny without a problem. A majority of that was without TM. It's ultimately your decision and what is your comfort level.
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From: Philly
The trans has 47,500 miles on it. I changed the fluid and filter at 30,000 miles. The trans *knock on wood* seems to be in fine condition.
I DEFINITELY don't want to remove the TM on the 3-4 shift. I have 3.42's and 3rd gear @ 6,000 rpm's is much higher than my trap speed. I don't trap anywhere near necessary to require 4th gear at the track, and I don't really need to be going faster than 135 mph on the street for any reason So let's leave the TM active on that.
I'm just on the fence about getting it totally removed or just lessened. I know the 1-2 shifts in these transmissions are by far the strongest, but the 2-3 worries me as it's a very complex shift, so I'm told. I probably won't screw with the line pressure I guess...I'm really torn. I just want to be prepared in case the tuner asks me what I want to do.
I DEFINITELY don't want to remove the TM on the 3-4 shift. I have 3.42's and 3rd gear @ 6,000 rpm's is much higher than my trap speed. I don't trap anywhere near necessary to require 4th gear at the track, and I don't really need to be going faster than 135 mph on the street for any reason
So let's leave the TM active on that.I'm just on the fence about getting it totally removed or just lessened. I know the 1-2 shifts in these transmissions are by far the strongest, but the 2-3 worries me as it's a very complex shift, so I'm told. I probably won't screw with the line pressure I guess...I'm really torn. I just want to be prepared in case the tuner asks me what I want to do.
There's no TM on the 3>4 shift or 4>3 shift. The Max Allowed Engine Torque is set at 350 ft-lbs from the factory, which is pretty low. Try it reduced at first to see if you like it. If you don't, have him it adjust again (hopefully he doesn't charge for that).
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From: Philly
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Thread Starter
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From: Philly
I was under the impression that the 3-4 shift had torque management. I've heard that, for some reason, some people have it and some people don't. I guess I'll find out. For the 3-4 shift, I was basically thinking about leaving it totally stock. I guess what I do with the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts will depend on what the stock settings are. I'm just curious as to exactly how weak the 2-3 shift is on these stock trannies.
Ye of little faith...
Look at my sig. I've sprayed this transmission with a 100 shot for over a year solid, sprayed a 150 shot for about 6 months. This is with a 4000 stall converter that I daily drove. I will admit, the rearend busted, but the tranny is just fine.
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From: Philly
Some stock 4L60E's hold up better than some built transmissions for some reason. Others break due to stock power. Sounds like you have a freak *knock on wood.* I'm not going to assume I'd be so lucky
My 134,000 1998 4L60E has taken over 2.5 years of constant floggings and 1.60-1.62 60"s and it has never missed a beat... 120 Passes, couple accidental neutral drops, and 2 hour Los Angeles freeway traffic, it has taken everything I can throw at it.
Change your fluid every 15-30,000, run a big trans cooler and it will last FOREVER on a bolt on/mild NA car...
Others die due to excessive torque or shifting at 6600-7000RPM.
95% of us run a decent conveter with no ill effects on the stock trans.
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From: So.Cal.
Choco,
Do this:
1. reduce the shift times to 0.3s or 0.2s flat across for all upshifts;
2. reduce TM by half on all upshifts, if it still shifts too soft for you then keep reducing, if it's too hard for you, then increase;
3. raise middle and upper part of upshift pressure tables to about 90 psi before hitting your peak torque (this momentarily causes line pressure to goto to almost max during big upshifts, prevents slippage);
4. raise the lower part of pressure upshift tables so there's no flat spot (this gives you some low torque shift feel... if it clunks/jerks then undo this step).
Try 1. and 2. and proceed from there, do 3. and 4. if you feel like it.
Some F-bodies, when TM is removed, shifts are hard and wildly spin tires 1-2 and 2-3 easily.
Other F-bodies, when TM is removed, shifts get noticeably firmer, but not wild.
I thought TM was already zero from factory for 3-4 shift...!?
If you run SD then watch your TRQENG pid make sure it goes high as RPM increase, otherwise the PCM will let the trans slip and burn if TRQENG stays low...
If you run MAF, then keep your MAF clean for same reason.
4L60E is fairly strong, it will last you a long time with regular fluid/filter change;
regularly check level and for leaks, including leaks from cooler lines/hoses;
let motor/trans warm up before applying daily abuse.
The 2-3 shift is not much different than 1-2 or 3-4... the main difference is that 2-3 uses the un-stroking of the 2nd servo as the accumulator for the apply of the 3/4 clutch... whereas the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts have their own accumulators.
Do this:
1. reduce the shift times to 0.3s or 0.2s flat across for all upshifts;
2. reduce TM by half on all upshifts, if it still shifts too soft for you then keep reducing, if it's too hard for you, then increase;
3. raise middle and upper part of upshift pressure tables to about 90 psi before hitting your peak torque (this momentarily causes line pressure to goto to almost max during big upshifts, prevents slippage);
4. raise the lower part of pressure upshift tables so there's no flat spot (this gives you some low torque shift feel... if it clunks/jerks then undo this step).
Try 1. and 2. and proceed from there, do 3. and 4. if you feel like it.
Some F-bodies, when TM is removed, shifts are hard and wildly spin tires 1-2 and 2-3 easily.
Other F-bodies, when TM is removed, shifts get noticeably firmer, but not wild.
I thought TM was already zero from factory for 3-4 shift...!?
If you run SD then watch your TRQENG pid make sure it goes high as RPM increase, otherwise the PCM will let the trans slip and burn if TRQENG stays low...
If you run MAF, then keep your MAF clean for same reason.
4L60E is fairly strong, it will last you a long time with regular fluid/filter change;
regularly check level and for leaks, including leaks from cooler lines/hoses;
let motor/trans warm up before applying daily abuse.
The 2-3 shift is not much different than 1-2 or 3-4... the main difference is that 2-3 uses the un-stroking of the 2nd servo as the accumulator for the apply of the 3/4 clutch... whereas the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts have their own accumulators.
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From: Philly
What we wound up doing was decreasing shift times from 0.3 sec to 0.2 sec on all the upshifts and removing TM from the 1-2 shift, but keeping it stock on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. TM was about 10% on the 1-2, 30% on the 2-3 and over 60% on the 3-4 shifts. We didn't feel comfortable touching the TM on the 2-3 and 3-4 shift because both shifts use the 3-4 clutchpacks and we don't have much faith in them.
We didn't mess with line pressure. Joecar, I wish I would have seen your post earlier. We didn't play with part throttle settings for line pressure, either.
The shifts feel exactly the same. I can't detect much of a difference at all. I think the only thing that will truly fix that is a shift kit.
All in all, we had a good session. I picked up 35rwhp from the tune and all I have are intake and exhaust mods. And people say you don't need a tune after headers I dropped almost 6 tenths off my ET and I can't cut better than a 2.15 60'. It has a lot left in it.
We didn't mess with line pressure. Joecar, I wish I would have seen your post earlier. We didn't play with part throttle settings for line pressure, either.
The shifts feel exactly the same. I can't detect much of a difference at all. I think the only thing that will truly fix that is a shift kit.
All in all, we had a good session. I picked up 35rwhp from the tune and all I have are intake and exhaust mods. And people say you don't need a tune after headers
I dropped almost 6 tenths off my ET and I can't cut better than a 2.15 60'. It has a lot left in it. 
You do not need a shift kit to make the 4L60E shift hard and crisp. You just need to get rid of torque management, and dial your shift pressures up.
I think you got what you wanted though.. a relatively safe trans tune.
Nick
I think you got what you wanted though.. a relatively safe trans tune.
Nick