ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

The arguments of degree vs non-degree is futile. Obviously the majority of the people in each bucket are going to defend it to the death to prove they didn't wast 4 years of their life in either scenario (with obvious exceptions). The point is to figure out what you want to do and how to get there. Talk to people and companies that you do what you want to do and ask how they got there or what is required to get there. If an overwhelming response is a degree, then do it. If it's not, then don't. College is a great benefit for those types of jobs requiring it. Obviously not all jobs do. You are going to hear tons of stories about the guy that never went to college but now is a CEO, as well as the other end of the spectrum about a guy that is a CEO that would have never made it there without college. As for college being a crutch, well there is nothing to say to that level of intelligence that already hasn't been said in such a statement. There is nothing worse than discouraging someone from going to college, and the same goes for pushing someone who feels it may not be for them. Personally, I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am today without my college degree. I was someone that wanted to go to college to get the best education possible for my area (computer security). I busted my *** while other people were farting around. This is not to say I didn't have fun while I was doing it b/c there are so many times I can't remember that I was wasted or just had fun in general with the college experience. However, when it came to work time, that's what I did. I'm only 23, have my BS, Masters, and several comp sec accreditations. Because of this, I am making 6 figures straight out of school. In my field, college was not only necessary, but critical to my success. However, this is just my personal experience. There are people that went to trade schools and are doing equally as well. It all matters about what your passion is. To argue about whether college is worth it or not is like arguing religion or politics. It's all opinion. I can't say it doesn't amaze me to hear some people argue against college based on simple claims that they got nothing from it or don't think there is anything to get from it, but that's their prerogative. That has no effect on what I knew I wanted to do, where I wanted to go, and where I am now. The bottom line is that a degree will NEVER hurt you, no matter what anyone says. There is absolutely NO ONE that will turn you down for the simple fact of having a degree, whereas the reverse is quite opposite and you WILL be turned down from places for the simple fact of NOT having one. However, the question is whether these places that might turn you down are the ones that you will be looking to be a part of. That's where your research lies.

Outlaw55

I "wasted" 6 years working in the industry (gaining experience) THEN I went to automotive business school, the two play off each other WAY BETTER THAN I THOUGHT!! Iam still firm, you need some type of education to inflate your paycheque, otherwise the employers just dont take you seriously...

11secLS1

iTrader: (39)

So you paraphrase some text from a Kiyosaki book and now your an expert on the value of higher education? Financial literacy is a separate discussion.

I have been on both sides of the fence on this debate. However, I do have a ME degree and couldn't do without it.

militant_x

iTrader: (1)

If you love vehicles, why not learn how they work? You dont need to go college to get this, but it sure helps. Its fun, and you can get a good job afterward. (And I mean really learn how they work, the cool aspects of dynamics and thermodynamics)

loyolacub68

iTrader: (16)

Unsubscribed from this thread because of the lack of some rational thinking (TanRchy). Good to see a few voices of reason coming in here.....

Fr3shFr0st

i too am 18 and am halfway through my first semester as a Mechanical Engineer. i thought this was what i wanted to do all my life. get a job with GM or Harley-Davidson, designing engines and cars. i realized that inorder to do that i would need a degree otherwise they wouldnt consider me. i worked in a shop for about a year and gained a fair amount of experience working on cars. its really waht YOU want to do man. dont listen to all these one-sided people. if you want to work on design then you ned a degree, to work for like a race team putting hte engine together and working on it you can go to UTI or a trade school like that. they have a guaranteed job for almost every graduate from what i hear. i am actually transfering my major after this semester. its not cause its ridiculously hard even though i know its getting that way and will be, its just i found something else to do. after a while in the major im sure you will decide for yourself if its for you or not. i am going into Physics and Astronomy which i dont think will be any easier, but i always been fascinated with space

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

ArcticZ28, Must be damned nice to be making 6 figures straight out of school. And you do computer security? What company do you work for?

V6Corvette

Stay with the book work,,, it will pay off in the long run. You dont want to be fixing cars till your 60.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

It is nice. I'm glad I put myself through hell for 5 years. It paid off. I work for a national lab doing computer security things. That's about all I'll say

BigBronco

iTrader: (2)

The problem is he will be hard pressed to get into the design door for an automotive company without a Degree. I know this first hand.


I was in the machinist/engine building field for almost three years. I finally quit so I can finish my Engineering Degree. The one thing I am lacking to help secure my spot in the professional field. I would like to do more then be an engine builder the rest of my life, even though I thoroughly enjoy it.

I will add my whole take on this later, in detail.

ALLBOTTLE

iTrader: (13)

If you love cars then definitely don't work on them professionally, Have a career that can support the life style you want and your car hobby.

Schooling is there to teach you the principals of how and why things work. By understanding the basic principals you are then able to improve a design or modify a design to make it fit a specific application.

An employer such as GM will not care that you can rebuild an engine and make 1000hp out of it, they can do it to. They want someone who can build the architecture from scratch and make it reliable enough to last for 10yrs 100,000 miles with basic maintenance.

They don't care that you've been a professional body man for year and have had countless magazine articles/cover for custom body work, they want someone who can analyze and set trends and predict what design will sell in 5-10 years.

Drafting will make up 30% of an engineering curriculum but once you become an engineer you will hardly ever touch a cad program, your time is too valuable sure you may do a draft design but the draftsman is the one who gets paid to sit in front of the computer for countless hours making sure it's drawn properly. the engineer is out with the client or working on other projects.

A Formal education is never going to be waste, it use to be that a 4yr degree use to get you a great job, now employers are looking for masters degrees as well.

Just remember this: (no disrespect to mechanics)
Engineers Design the cars and make the work from the ground up, mechanics/techs fix the little problems that go wrong from day to day uses.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

If you want to design most car items, you will need at least a BSME. A masters would be better, but more book work. You could also go the BSEE route, and do the electronics. A side path would be a Computer Science degree, to do the software. But if you want to do the "real" car work, you want an ME degree.
The toughest parts you will find will be the math (All levels of Calculus required, as well as Differential Equations) and the physics (both General Physics as well as Engineering Statics and Dynamics). You will also have to take such courses as Strength of Materials, very important in the design world.
Is is easy? Of course not. Is is fun? Not for me, it wasn't. Did it pay off? Like gangbusters.
Are there engineers out there that don't know their sphincters from a hole in the ground? Of course, there are in all, repeat ALL, professions.
Best of luck with your decision.

ras928

Engineers coming out of college don't think they know everything, they act like they know everything, and thats how you make money. Almost all answers an engineer can come up with are wrong, but you state the answers with certain assumptions, conditions, etc. and try to get it close enough. The guy who does this will get promoted but the guy who says "i dont know" isnt going anywhere.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

I have to say, that is the silliest thing I have read in this thread.
College taught me two things: First, I will never know everything, and when I encounter anyone (engineer or otherwise) who thinks that they do, I walk the other way.
Second, they taught me how to think things through. Give me a problem, and a somewhat reasonable amount of time, and I can figure the problem out, provide alternate solutions, make recommendations, and have data to back it up. And it will be in a report appropriate to the audience, even if it is the president of the company.

Websy21

iTrader: (34)

This is not a silling statement. I work at a very large Heavy Oil Upgrading facility that employs well over 300 people alone not include contractors in shich I would be unable to even take a stab at. Our engineer's all get laughed at, they think they know everything but who operates the damn facility anyways? They tell us to do something b/c they are a boss but we say no this will happen we can't do that. After hours of 'discussion' we finally agree ok than I'll do it. I wonder what happens, retarded decisions everyday. Make it feel like it s a ticking time bomb and you could prevent it but hey what do we know they are 'engineers'. LOL, I applied and was going to persue mech Eng, after seeing this I am so glad I never. Lat night at work this actually came up and I said exactly this. I am proud of my career choice, I do less and make more than them anyways. Only been at this plant for a year now and will make over 100 000 g's easy this year. Guys that have been there for 5+ years will make between 120-170. Thats me in 3-4 years.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Your statement reminds me of the Navy: The officers have the "prestige" if you will, but the chiefs run the Navy.
I did not make my career choice for the money, I made it because I enjoy it and I am good at it. I am happy that you approve of your career choice; it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

horist

Society has been brainwashed by the man man! Live free! f*** college! it's useless (seriously... I wish everyone would stop going now... would give me job security )

You really need to reevaluate your goals... My dad's been an auto mechanic at the same dealership for 35 years, his dad worked there also... after that ammount of time he has no desire to work on even his own cars lol... now business is so slow (Jaguar Dealership) there are days he won't even do any work... and other days he will work all day (Commission only)

You can get good money if you really bust your *** (He had a few 6 digit years in the late 80s and early 90s) but it's a whole lot easier to make that ammount and maintain it if you're doing something of a less manual labor nature...

If you think college is hard... wait till you get a job w/demands, a house, etc... I would suggest re-evaluating your major... worst case get a liberal arts degree, then you can always go back later and get a masters in something you enjoy (Masters degrees are for losers though... so no one should get those either )

Myself... I went to college for my computer science degree... while working full time and graduated after 2 years w/my 4 year degree. However... I loved the math classes, the CS classes, etc... It was/is my passion. When I first got my degree I didn't get an immediate bump since I already had the job, but w/out that degree I can guarantee I would not be making what I do now after just 7 years in Corporate America....

Really the way I look at it is this:
College Degree - gives you the edge over those w/out a degree, demonstrates that you are capable of starting a difficult task and completing it.

After you're in the industry for a while the degree is not as important (someone with 7 years experience in a certain position w/no degree will be picked over someone w/a degree and no experience) but the degree really helps get your foot in the door and allows you to move up the ladder quicker.

koolaid_kid

iTrader: (21)

Well stated, Horist.
A college degree will help get your foot in the door, but YOU have to make the effort after that. I have worked with engineers (and techs) that couldn't pour **** out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. And I have worked with techs that were better engineers than most of the engineers I worked with, because they applied themselves.
My dad had an MSEE, but worked at the Post Office all his life, because he enjoyed it.
Also, I suggest avoiding general statements such as "all college grads are idiots" or "all non-college grads couldn't make the cut", "all engineers are idiots", etc. IMHO, this is discrimination in its basest form.

2KnbmTA

iTrader: (3)

too lazy to read the whole thread, but I go to tstc in waco, texas for automotive. you should check them out. not a lot of book work, mostly hands on, and the book work is actually interesting. The reason I chose it over a lot of the other tech schools is because you actually get a degree there, and the teachers have a lot of connections as far as jobs go. in my new student seminar, there was a guy from the cayman islands, and when the instructor asked why he came all the way to texas for school, he said his company sends all their employees to tstc for school.

XpEdItIoUs

iTrader: (44)

If you work hard at what you do and do it well you will succeed, Not everyone can be a rocket scientist. I know mechanics making 90k a year and I've meet ones owning a business making 200k a year. I have been a auto tech for 2 years and making a 40k a year so far.