01bird58

iTrader: (9)

I found out some more specifics from my uncle's GM career. He worked in the Tarrytown plant, and time and again he would be "laid off" from GM receiving 95% pay (mind you, in some instances this would last for over 40 weeks). Eventually the plant closed 10 years ago and he went to the Linden NJ plant. You are correct, that plant produced Jimmy's and other small SUV's. That plant closed about 6 years ago. Ever since Linden, he has received 95% pay with almost full benefits. His only requirement from GM is to go to "People to People" from 9-3 which is a non-for-profit community service organization. He has been employed by GM for about 25 years and they finally persuaded him to retire this year and began receiving his pension.

Now what argument can you possibly come up with to justify this complete nonsense? HE WAS GETTING PAID FOR 6 YEARS TO BUILD VEHICLES FOR GM AND HE WAS NOT BUILDING VEHICLES. HE WAS ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH THIS BECAUSE OF THE UAW CONTRACTS. I did not read this in an article or hear it on TV. I have watched this go on right in front of me for a long time. I always wondered how GM was able to stay afloat after allowing something like this to occur. I guess their time is up.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

The only UAW workers that build Toyota vehicles are the ones that work in GM plants under GMs contract (Tacoma, Corolla, Vibe). Unless something has changed.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

That is a very misleading/well crafted sentence.

Ever been to Japan?

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

True...bash the Big 3 while praising all of the import nameplates, this has been the general media's dialogue for YEARS now.

TriShield

They (the Big Three) have made it pretty easy for a long time now with embarrassing products and whittling all their brands to nothing consumers care about anymore.

TriShield

Detroit automakers' rescue stalls in Senate



Nov 20, 7:57 AM (ET)
By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - A plan to give troubled U.S. automakers billions of dollars in government-backed loans is on life support, leaving the fate of hundreds of thousands of workers and Detroit's once-venerable car companies hanging in the balance.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., canceled plans Wednesday for a vote on a bill to carve $25 billion in new auto industry loans out of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund. The Bush administration and congressional Republicans have rejected Democrats' plan to dip into that pot of money.

Warning of economic disaster, a bipartisan group of senators from auto industry states are trying to reach a deal on an alternative package. If an agreement can be reached, Reid said, the Senate still could vote on it as part of a measure to extend jobless benefits.

But Reid acknowledged that was "not going to be easy."

With all sides sensing doom for a Big Three automaker rescue, the finger-pointing began. White House press secretary Dana Perino said that if Congress "leaves for a two-month vacation without having addressed this important issue ... then the Congress will bear responsibility for anything that happens."

Congressional Democrats countered that the Treasury Department already had the power to grant emergency funds to the automakers, but the Bush administration opposed the approach.

The leaders of General Motors Corp. (GM), Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler LLC painted a grim picture of their financial position during two days of congressional hearings, warning that the collapse of the auto industry could lead to the loss of 3 million jobs. Detroit's automakers, hurt by a sharp drop in sales and a nearly frozen credit market, burned through nearly $18 billion in cash reserves during the last quarter, and GM and Chrysler both said they could collapse in weeks.

"I don't believe we have the luxury of a lot of time," GM CEO Rick Wagoner told a House hearing.

Alan Mulally, the CEO of Ford Motor Co., said the company had sufficient cash reserves to make it through 2009. But United Auto Workers union president Ron Gettelfinger said a bankruptcy could spawn others.

"If there's a Chapter 11 (for) one of the companies, it will drag at least one other with them, if not all of them. And I do not believe Chapter 11 is where it will end. It will go to liquidation," he said ominously.

Automakers ran into more resistance from House lawmakers, who chastised the executives for fighting tougher fuel-efficiency standards in the past and questioned their use of private jets while at the same time seeking government handouts.

"My fear is that you're going to take this money and continue the same stupid decisions you've made for 25 years," said Rep. Michael Capuano, D-Mass.

The stakes are high. The Detroit automakers employ nearly a quarter-million workers, and more than 730,000 other workers produce materials and parts that go into cars. About 1 million more people work in dealerships nationwide. If just one of the automakers declared bankruptcy, some estimates put U.S. job losses next year as high as 2.5 million.

The White House and congressional Republicans have called on Democrats to support a GOP plan to divert a $25 billion loan program created by Congress in September - designed to help the companies develop more fuel-efficient vehicles - to meet the auto giants' immediate financial needs.

Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., Kit Bond. R-Mo., and George Voinovich, R-Ohio, are trying to broker an alternative that could provide bridge loans or a guarantee that the fuel-efficiency loan fund ultimately would be replenished. Negotiators were discussing a scaled-down aid package of $5 billion to $8 billion to help the automakers survive through year's end.

But it was unclear whether any progress could be made. Democrats strongly oppose letting the car companies tap into the energy loans for short-term cash-flow needs.

Despite the gridlock in Congress, there could be a contingency plan: a return to Washington in December for another postelection session to try to strike a deal.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., noted that Democratic leaders were planning to gather for an economic conference the week of Dec. 8. "That is available," Hoyer said. "The year has not ended."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081120/D94ILVBO0.html

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Malibu is bad car?
Corvette is a bad car?
Mercury Milan?
Dodge Caravan?
Ya know, Camry and Accord are NOT the only decent cars left out there...well not yet at least.

Japan made purely shitty, rusting and undesirable cars once (and for a long time) too, but somehow so many of you have forgotten (and forgiven) that.

earl3

Wagoner doesn't exactly exude strong leadership:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD9sz8rvheI&fmt=18

Personally, I think he knows exactly when they will run out of money, and its a lot sooner than he wants to admit.

TheRival

why do you even bother defending GM and the big 3? it is a FACT that their business model has caused them to fail! Yes they have some great cars but that does not take away from the fact that they MISMANAGED the company and are therefore left to suffer the consequences!!!! How are you still arguing this subject?

TriShield

Uh yes, most of their cars including the new and hugely overhyped Malibu are pretty mediocre to bad. The Corvette is an exception but one of the very few, proof that GM can make a great car steeped in heritage and focused on it's mission when it wants to. So what's the excuse for all the rest of the clunkers they make?

The Japanese companies have been making excellent vanilla products for the everyman since the 1980s now and have captured generations of buyers who are never going to look back.

That's nobody's fault but the Big Three's.

davidadavila

i hope something good comes from all of this the moral distress that this is going to cause to americans is not good, this will hurt are economy even more....god willing we come out of this one soon... my prayers with all americans that are close to loosing their jobs......i dont agree with unions, i hate them with a pasion but man i hope all those people dont loose their job

Bitemark46

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...7_FORTUNE5.htm


**** ford and chevy. Greedy bastids.

-Mark

wabmorgan

They should REALLY re-consider their answer on that question. Hell... I would work for $1 if that is what I had to do to save my company.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

While I would NEVER state something as stupid and anti American as this:I do agree that, like Lee Iacocca before them, these guys really should make that oh so important gesture, it really does send a positive message.
Even if they only made a dollar a year for the next 3-4 years, if you average it with the 15-25 million per year each one has made in the past it still averages out to over 3-5 mil a year in the long run, not too bad.
Plus they could work in some nice stock option plans in place of the salary or something, it would be a much bigger incentive to build the companies back up and drive up the share prices.

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

$1 went a lot further back in 1980

I love seeing these greedy CEOs squirm

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

They couldn't work for 1 dollar because they have already spent all their money with little in savings. lol i if these people worked for 20 000 a week they would surely go bankrupt with all those houses and cars they have to upkeep.

Bitemark46

I wouldn't call it "anti-american" when the many of the Ford and Chevy cars are either made in Mexico and Canada. Who's anti-american now? And calling it stupid well.... We all know they are going to get the bailout. So my tax dollars are going to pay for their screw up and guess what, they are still going to get there huge salary and their bonuses. THAT to me is stupid. Let them fail.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

No money for automakers so far with all the jobs they provide but they are throwing $20B MORE at Citi on top of what they are already getting.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

****, dont take a dollar, and work for $50,000. if they did that, it would win hearts, minds, and sales...GARUNTEED

wabmorgan

Even $50K would be better than the millions they are getting now....

As LS1LT1 said... it is an "oh so important gesture".

Some governors are doing this as well now. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of Calyfornia and Phil Bredesen Governor of Tennessee both waved their salaries.