GM may shed Pontiac, Saturn, and/or Saab to get bail-out money
11-26-2008, 11:22 PM
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GM may shed Pontiac, Saturn, and/or Saab to get bail-out money http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide
I can't believe it. I like the Saab cars, Pontiac is an American staple, and Saturn is finally getting some decent cars.
Way to go GM...Way to go.
Seriously, that's the idea they have? That's all they can come up with? I think there needs to be a serious shake up in terms of the top brass at GM.
I can't believe it. I like the Saab cars, Pontiac is an American staple, and Saturn is finally getting some decent cars.
Way to go GM...Way to go.
Seriously, that's the idea they have? That's all they can come up with? I think there needs to be a serious shake up in terms of the top brass at GM.
11-27-2008, 12:04 AM
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Pontiac means nothing to me anymore if theres no Firebird or similiar. Everything they've given us has not been as captivating as the Firebird. Yes the quality is up, but its come in the form of a niche roadster and reused australian pieces everything else is crap and/or borrowed from another platform. If they can't do better lets focus on chevy. Thats what the camaro is telling us people.
Saab eh born from jets killed by ugliness. They've always have been an odd ball and I've never liked them.
Saturns dent proof, but not economy proof. They've gone too upmarket. Just roll their affordability and no haggle pricing into an entry level chevy car and get rid of the rest.
Why aren't they mentioning GMC getting the axe. They are the most guilty of rebadging.
This is all my opinion. For GM to survive it must have more focus and thats why I think they are talking about killing off some brands. With all of the brands I think they are spreading sales across their brands and keeping the dealer network happy. Take a step back continue improving chevy and Cadillac and rebuild the base through this transitional period. There will be a set back and job losses, but just think about making the product better and grow naturally not spam the board with rebadge specials.
I hope it all works out for this company and this country in the long run. I've only driven and bought AMERICAN and will continue.
Saab eh born from jets killed by ugliness. They've always have been an odd ball and I've never liked them.
Saturns dent proof, but not economy proof. They've gone too upmarket. Just roll their affordability and no haggle pricing into an entry level chevy car and get rid of the rest.
Why aren't they mentioning GMC getting the axe. They are the most guilty of rebadging.
This is all my opinion. For GM to survive it must have more focus and thats why I think they are talking about killing off some brands. With all of the brands I think they are spreading sales across their brands and keeping the dealer network happy. Take a step back continue improving chevy and Cadillac and rebuild the base through this transitional period. There will be a set back and job losses, but just think about making the product better and grow naturally not spam the board with rebadge specials.
I hope it all works out for this company and this country in the long run. I've only driven and bought AMERICAN and will continue.
11-27-2008, 12:15 AM
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finally GM is doing the right economic decision. Saab and Saturn should have been dropped a long time ago!! Pontiac has been continuing the line of grand prix and grand ams, didn't make enough sales w/ GTOs, blah...so I understand their decision. Rick Wagoner ( HAVE FAITH)
11-27-2008, 12:40 AM
#4
I have never like Saturn but they do have a following with people that want a better value with more fuel mileage (and ugly cars).
GMC should be getting **** canned before Saab and Saturn. Only GM would leave a division of useless rebadged SUVs and trucks and then kill off Saab which actually has a couple of decent cars in its line-up.
GM needs more cars and less trucks/SUVs. That has been my major complaint about GM for over 8 years standing.
GMC should be getting **** canned before Saab and Saturn. Only GM would leave a division of useless rebadged SUVs and trucks and then kill off Saab which actually has a couple of decent cars in its line-up.
GM needs more cars and less trucks/SUVs. That has been my major complaint about GM for over 8 years standing.
11-27-2008, 02:21 AM
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3 billion was invested in Saturn to remake it and it's sales are the lowest they have ever been. The other brands are no better off.
Believe it or not, these brands are all lost causes.
Believe it or not, these brands are all lost causes.
11-27-2008, 02:35 AM
#6
Well then I guess we should all just throw in the towel and give up then, it's all over I take it?
Based on that ultra negative and completely dismal outlook I guess I really should order an '09 (or '10) Corvette to put away for future use so I'll always have a fresh one on hand because, according to your statements, only GM is hurting yet all other carmakers are doing very well right now.
11-27-2008, 09:23 AM
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This **** comes around every couple of months. I think Hummer was the last division to really get run through the rumor mill for the one that is going to be shut down, yet I keep see GM ads pimping the new H3 and last I checked Hummer is still around. If Hummer can survive these guys can survive.
Right now given the econ no one is buying cars, so of course sales are down these brands.
Right now given the econ no one is buying cars, so of course sales are down these brands.
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11-27-2008, 09:42 AM
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GM is officially and actively trying to sell Hummer, there's no rumor there. I don't think they will can Pontiac, but like that whole company, it needs major restructuring. For instance, why the hell does GM's "performance" division need an Aveo-based car, the G3? The G5 XFE gets better mileage than the G3 (37 mpg compared to 34 mpg). The G8 and Solstice are the only Pontiacs with performance potential now, and neither are selling well.
11-27-2008, 10:07 AM
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Lost causes?
Well then I guess we should all just throw in the towel and give up then, it's all over I take it?
Based on that ultra negative and completely dismal outlook I guess I really should order an '09 (or '10) Corvette to put away for future use so I'll always have a fresh one on hand because, according to your statements, only GM is hurting yet all other carmakers are doing very well right now.
Well then I guess we should all just throw in the towel and give up then, it's all over I take it?
Based on that ultra negative and completely dismal outlook I guess I really should order an '09 (or '10) Corvette to put away for future use so I'll always have a fresh one on hand because, according to your statements, only GM is hurting yet all other carmakers are doing very well right now.
11-27-2008, 10:22 AM
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GM is officially and actively trying to sell Hummer, there's no rumor there. I don't think they will can Pontiac, but like that whole company, it needs major restructuring. For instance, why the hell does GM's "performance" division need an Aveo-based car, the G3? The G5 XFE gets better mileage than the G3 (37 mpg compared to 34 mpg). The G8 and Solstice are the only Pontiacs with performance potential now, and neither are selling well.
The issue with these brands is that none of them actually sell or really turn a profit.
Pontiac got substantial investment in new product the past couple of years only for all of them to fail miserably. The G8 is the latest Pontiac that nobody wants. The G6 is GM's rental queen and they have to give it away to get people to buy them. The Solstice was an expensive little car that doesn't make any money and didn't sell well after the initial run on them. The brand is synonymous not with performance, but rental cars with ugly grilles. The Holdens were nice but killed by and wasted on the brand. It's sales are no so hot and a substantial amount of them go to fleets.
Saturn recieved over three billion dollars invested in an entirely new product line and image. Sound familiar? Just like Oldsmobile did. Just like Oldsmobile people really aren't too fond of the brand name and those who were suddenly found that the very cheap and cheerful little cars they liked are no longer available. The ION was replaced with the imported Astra for instance, which costs substantially more. Saturn sales are the lowest they have ever been.
Saab has always been money wasting cause. Why GM bought it I'll never know. Prior to GM's full ownership the brand's highest sales were in the 90s and have dropped ever since. It hardly moves any cars and it requires constant investment from the mothership. It's been nothing but a drain on GM.
Buick and GMC also have to go, and I would almost put money on that happening eventually as well. Buick is GM's Mercury or Lincoln, it's not taken seriously by anyone other than it's shrinking base of retirees. GMC is an all rebadged truck brand, something Chevrolet already has covered better and cutting another all-truck brand would look good for Congress and on the balance sheets.
11-27-2008, 11:21 AM
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You guys and your Buick stuff, You forget GM sells cars overseas! Infact that is almost 50% of their sales. China is going to surpass America in demand for cars in the next 3 to 5 years, maybe sooner now.
The top selling import in China is BUICK! GM was the first import car company to sell over 1,000,000 units in China. Most of those BUICK. What makes money for GM in China?
BUICK. That is why Buick stays.
Pontiac and Saturn will go away. They won't sell because they don't want to have to give up some of the desgins that go with the name, like the LSX, Ecotec and 3.6 engines.
The top selling import in China is BUICK! GM was the first import car company to sell over 1,000,000 units in China. Most of those BUICK. What makes money for GM in China?
BUICK. That is why Buick stays.
Pontiac and Saturn will go away. They won't sell because they don't want to have to give up some of the desgins that go with the name, like the LSX, Ecotec and 3.6 engines.
11-27-2008, 11:48 AM
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There's no reason Buick cannot be phased out here and continue to be sold in China.
But the China bubble has burst along with the global downturn, and last I knew Buick is not the number one brand in China anymore.
But the China bubble has burst along with the global downturn, and last I knew Buick is not the number one brand in China anymore.
11-27-2008, 08:25 PM
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Should have done this a long time ago!!! Why is Buick not getting the AXE? I know it sells in the PRC...keep it there. But...
Chevy and Caddy are all GM needs right now (for cars).
W
Chevy and Caddy are all GM needs right now (for cars).
W
11-28-2008, 09:57 AM
#18
Heres my take:
Keep Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick for overseas
Streamline the product lineup and focus on having the best in each segment similarly to the imports. Ie Best small car, midsize, crossover, suv and pickup. Offer them with different trim levels and engine options ie. 4, 6, hybrid and performance.
Stop competing with there own offerings and work on building model recognition. There is no need to have the Enclave, Acadia, Transverse, Outlook. (all the same suv).
Keep Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick for overseas
Streamline the product lineup and focus on having the best in each segment similarly to the imports. Ie Best small car, midsize, crossover, suv and pickup. Offer them with different trim levels and engine options ie. 4, 6, hybrid and performance.
Stop competing with there own offerings and work on building model recognition. There is no need to have the Enclave, Acadia, Transverse, Outlook. (all the same suv).
11-28-2008, 10:39 AM
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GM can't sell it's own brands like Pontiac, they would simply stop making them like Oldsmobile.
The issue with these brands is that none of them actually sell or really turn a profit.
Pontiac got substantial investment in new product the past couple of years only for all of them to fail miserably. The G8 is the latest Pontiac that nobody wants. The G6 is GM's rental queen and they have to give it away to get people to buy them. The Solstice was an expensive little car that doesn't make any money and didn't sell well after the initial run on them. The brand is synonymous not with performance, but rental cars with ugly grilles. The Holdens were nice but killed by and wasted on the brand. It's sales are no so hot and a substantial amount of them go to fleets.
Saturn recieved over three billion dollars invested in an entirely new product line and image. Sound familiar? Just like Oldsmobile did. Just like Oldsmobile people really aren't too fond of the brand name and those who were suddenly found that the very cheap and cheerful little cars they liked are no longer available. The ION was replaced with the imported Astra for instance, which costs substantially more. Saturn sales are the lowest they have ever been.
Saab has always been money wasting cause. Why GM bought it I'll never know. Prior to GM's full ownership the brand's highest sales were in the 90s and have dropped ever since. It hardly moves any cars and it requires constant investment from the mothership. It's been nothing but a drain on GM.
Buick and GMC also have to go, and I would almost put money on that happening eventually as well. Buick is GM's Mercury or Lincoln, it's not taken seriously by anyone other than it's shrinking base of retirees. GMC is an all rebadged truck brand, something Chevrolet already has covered better and cutting another all-truck brand would look good for Congress and on the balance sheets.
The issue with these brands is that none of them actually sell or really turn a profit.
Pontiac got substantial investment in new product the past couple of years only for all of them to fail miserably. The G8 is the latest Pontiac that nobody wants. The G6 is GM's rental queen and they have to give it away to get people to buy them. The Solstice was an expensive little car that doesn't make any money and didn't sell well after the initial run on them. The brand is synonymous not with performance, but rental cars with ugly grilles. The Holdens were nice but killed by and wasted on the brand. It's sales are no so hot and a substantial amount of them go to fleets.
Saturn recieved over three billion dollars invested in an entirely new product line and image. Sound familiar? Just like Oldsmobile did. Just like Oldsmobile people really aren't too fond of the brand name and those who were suddenly found that the very cheap and cheerful little cars they liked are no longer available. The ION was replaced with the imported Astra for instance, which costs substantially more. Saturn sales are the lowest they have ever been.
Saab has always been money wasting cause. Why GM bought it I'll never know. Prior to GM's full ownership the brand's highest sales were in the 90s and have dropped ever since. It hardly moves any cars and it requires constant investment from the mothership. It's been nothing but a drain on GM.
Buick and GMC also have to go, and I would almost put money on that happening eventually as well. Buick is GM's Mercury or Lincoln, it's not taken seriously by anyone other than it's shrinking base of retirees. GMC is an all rebadged truck brand, something Chevrolet already has covered better and cutting another all-truck brand would look good for Congress and on the balance sheets.
11-28-2008, 11:21 AM
#20
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I agree selling off Saab and Saturn however, Pontiac needs to stay.
I went to a Saturn dealer ship today and it was a miserable sight. There were no potential customers looking around on the lot. Sadly, the vehicle service department was packed full of cars that needed some sort of of warranty work. Saturn = More expensive identical rebadge Chevys and Pontiacs that dont sell. Saturn was a 3 billion dollar mistake.
Saab has some very exciting and advanced technology that Cadillac and Buick could use. Ex. XWD and their turbo motors. Strip Saab and give to Buick and Caddy.
GM needs to turn Pontiac into a Scion division. Attract the youth with very modern designed vehicels thats very competitively priced. Pontiac needs to look like the Britany Spears. Sexy, young, cheap(affordable), and full of drama. It will sell.
This is what GM should look like:
Chevy = Toyota, Nissan, Honda
Caddy = MB, BMW, Lexus
Pontiac = Scion
GMC = ??? maybe commercial only
Hummer = Land Rover, Jeep
Buick = Infinite, Acura
I went to a Saturn dealer ship today and it was a miserable sight. There were no potential customers looking around on the lot. Sadly, the vehicle service department was packed full of cars that needed some sort of of warranty work. Saturn = More expensive identical rebadge Chevys and Pontiacs that dont sell. Saturn was a 3 billion dollar mistake.
Saab has some very exciting and advanced technology that Cadillac and Buick could use. Ex. XWD and their turbo motors. Strip Saab and give to Buick and Caddy.
GM needs to turn Pontiac into a Scion division. Attract the youth with very modern designed vehicels thats very competitively priced. Pontiac needs to look like the Britany Spears. Sexy, young, cheap(affordable), and full of drama. It will sell.
This is what GM should look like:
Chevy = Toyota, Nissan, Honda
Caddy = MB, BMW, Lexus
Pontiac = Scion
GMC = ??? maybe commercial only
Hummer = Land Rover, Jeep
Buick = Infinite, Acura