A plan for a bailout
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From: USS Enterprise 1701
Even President Bush has stated that the purpose of bailouts are to save companies that are simply so large that their failure would be a disaster.
"Too BIG to FAIL"
"Too BIG to FAIL"
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From: Charlotte NC...but a Jersey boy till death
I never made any statement claiming anyones patriotism based on their purchases. I was questioning your statement about people who don't buy American
"2) Even if it were a 'lesser' product (it's not), some of those veterans you speak of have SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES in some cases for our freedom/way of life...and yet you can't step up and buy a mere $25k car to try and contribute a little? Is that really too much to ask?
As a good American you still support your military and country even if you might disagree with some of your government's decisions or "business plans" because it's FOR THE GREATER GOOD, so why is this so much different?
My taxes contribute every day to those vets and my donations do as well. Me buying an American car has no direct effect on them. My buying a forgien car does directly impact the big 3, and makes them realize they are behind the 8 ball, they can either step up or step out.
I know consumer reports are looked down upon here on this site for some reason, but read any article from them, or any other magazine that talks about quality, even top gear has said on their shows that American cars are far less then their European, and Asian counter parts.
By all means though pay 25K for a car it is your choice. I'll pay my 25K for a honda toyota thats my choice.
That's the joy of being an American I don't have to do what everyone else said or does.
Also I didn't ask you how much your TV, Computer, cell phone costed, I asked where were they made.
"2) Even if it were a 'lesser' product (it's not), some of those veterans you speak of have SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES in some cases for our freedom/way of life...and yet you can't step up and buy a mere $25k car to try and contribute a little? Is that really too much to ask?
As a good American you still support your military and country even if you might disagree with some of your government's decisions or "business plans" because it's FOR THE GREATER GOOD, so why is this so much different?
My taxes contribute every day to those vets and my donations do as well. Me buying an American car has no direct effect on them. My buying a forgien car does directly impact the big 3, and makes them realize they are behind the 8 ball, they can either step up or step out.
I know consumer reports are looked down upon here on this site for some reason, but read any article from them, or any other magazine that talks about quality, even top gear has said on their shows that American cars are far less then their European, and Asian counter parts.
By all means though pay 25K for a car it is your choice. I'll pay my 25K for a honda toyota thats my choice.
That's the joy of being an American I don't have to do what everyone else said or does.
Also I didn't ask you how much your TV, Computer, cell phone costed, I asked where were they made.
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From: USS Enterprise 1701
those numbers are outrageously inflated. You are unbelievable if you think the automotive market is what's holding up are economy and if they go under the country goes into a depression. The automakers have been in the sh*t can for awhile now and this isn't going to stop it. Business is survival of the fittest and if you guys think that filing for bankruptcy protection is the end of a business, you don't know what your talking about.
You obviously needed to read what I said about no one should have gotten the bailout money. Secondly, you have no idea what your talking about. Those banks with a "bad business plan" were forced to loan to people who couldn't pay them back. Its called the Community Reinvestment Act, started by Carter and was sent snowballing under Clinton. The companies were forced to lend to them!!!! Then freddie and fannie guaranteed those loans so everyone thought they were kosher. The executives under freddie and fannie (which are both 1/2 govt owned..... do we see a trend here???????) were given bonuses based on the number of loans they backed, not based on if those loans were legitimate. Thus the executives made millions while they backed flawed/worthless paper causing a SUB PRIME housing crisis. Sub prime means these loans were likely to default... read that slowly so you understand it. Not to mention all the people who were buying houses they couldn't afford. (like buying a 250k house and not putting any money down)
You haven't got the slightest clue on the economic conditions right now and you are doing the typical finger pointing. Its BIG BAD businesses that are at fault, did you ever think that any of those foreclosures are also the people who signed the contracts' fault??? No you didn't because its so easy to look the other way and see and what you want to see.
Secondly, two wrongs don't make a right. This bailout money won't solve any of the big 3's problems and NOBODY should be getting bailed-out. The problems are with their management and the UAW, neither of which is going away. And do you actually think the govt has this money? No they don't, they just print more off because of the ridiculous debt were in, which further hurts all of us because the dollar will keep falling with less buying power.
to quote reagan "government isn't the solution to our problem, government is the problem." There should NEVER be ownership of private companies by our government, our founding fathers are turning in their graves. This isn't capitalism and it will hurt this country. Do we have a free market anymore if we allow companies to NOT FAIL? makes no sense
You obviously needed to read what I said about no one should have gotten the bailout money. Secondly, you have no idea what your talking about. Those banks with a "bad business plan" were forced to loan to people who couldn't pay them back. Its called the Community Reinvestment Act, started by Carter and was sent snowballing under Clinton. The companies were forced to lend to them!!!! Then freddie and fannie guaranteed those loans so everyone thought they were kosher. The executives under freddie and fannie (which are both 1/2 govt owned..... do we see a trend here???????) were given bonuses based on the number of loans they backed, not based on if those loans were legitimate. Thus the executives made millions while they backed flawed/worthless paper causing a SUB PRIME housing crisis. Sub prime means these loans were likely to default... read that slowly so you understand it. Not to mention all the people who were buying houses they couldn't afford. (like buying a 250k house and not putting any money down)
You haven't got the slightest clue on the economic conditions right now and you are doing the typical finger pointing. Its BIG BAD businesses that are at fault, did you ever think that any of those foreclosures are also the people who signed the contracts' fault??? No you didn't because its so easy to look the other way and see and what you want to see.
Secondly, two wrongs don't make a right. This bailout money won't solve any of the big 3's problems and NOBODY should be getting bailed-out. The problems are with their management and the UAW, neither of which is going away. And do you actually think the govt has this money? No they don't, they just print more off because of the ridiculous debt were in, which further hurts all of us because the dollar will keep falling with less buying power.
to quote reagan "government isn't the solution to our problem, government is the problem." There should NEVER be ownership of private companies by our government, our founding fathers are turning in their graves. This isn't capitalism and it will hurt this country. Do we have a free market anymore if we allow companies to NOT FAIL? makes no sense
Government maybe should not have to be the solution but the government is also what caused this problem with the housing bubble caused by the Clintion administration. In the end... it is the businesses that ARE at fault....The loans you refer to should have NEVER been made to the people that received them..... and it is now those businesses that are being nailed with the failure.... I know.... we (tax payers) are due to the bailouts.
Really don't matter WHOM you want to blame..... If the economy goes into a depression it will COST trillions and take YEARS to recover. A depression will COST a LOT more than the price of the bailouts.
Last edited by wabmorgan; Dec 18, 2008 at 01:33 PM.
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From: Charlotte NC...but a Jersey boy till death
AMEN To Clinton starting this **** show. Sub Prime lending? Really? Really Bill Really?
Thank god your Bitch didn't get in, we'll really be up the "up the assembly line with out a tire"
Get it? Get it??
Thank god your Bitch didn't get in, we'll really be up the "up the assembly line with out a tire"
Get it? Get it??
So if you were going to give a buddy $2000 but KNEW he couldnt give it back you would still do it. Oh, wait, you're going to be forced to give them money. Im sorry that is BS. Nobody has to loan ANYBODY money if they arent capable of paying it back. I know exactly what sub prime housing loans are. Maybe you need to get your head out of the clouds and stop trying to educate everybody and make them think your opinion is right.
Could say the EXACT same thing at you. There is finger pointing in any type of environment. I just choose to do it towards the politicians that beg for money from the government to build foreign factorys in some states yet blame the big 3 for their own demise and wont loan them anything.
I agree on this one. The train wreck was started with the finanical firms and Freddie and Fannie being completely retarded with their decisions and handling of money and mortages.
Could say the EXACT same thing at you. There is finger pointing in any type of environment. I just choose to do it towards the politicians that beg for money from the government to build foreign factorys in some states yet blame the big 3 for their own demise and wont loan them anything.
I agree on this one. The train wreck was started with the finanical firms and Freddie and Fannie being completely retarded with their decisions and handling of money and mortages.
So GM is my buddy now?? and I owe them gratitude and benefit of a loan from me? My buddy, sure I'd give him some money. A corporate business that had a flawed business plan? F*** NO! there is no comparison there at all, ridiculously dumb analogy.
As for the credit dilemma, you have no idea what your talking about. Govt tells businesses to loan peole who are likely to default and they will back the loans. Then, all these people default and now the govt doesn't have the means to back the loans so fannie and freddie go under (this is in a nut shell, to say the least). Along with that you have stupid companies trying to take advantage of consumers, and stupid consumers who somehow think they can buy a house with no money down and is way out of their budget. Now, I have to pay for it, and now I am saying I don't support the bail out of any business because that is not how capitalism works.
Your right, this is my opinion but your the dumbass who doesn't understand how the credit problem started: it started with government, and I am telling you, as history shows: Government is not the solution! This is the USA, we are supposed to have a private sector for all business. If we start making it where companies can't fail, we are headed down a long, long difficult road.
I doubt seriously that those numbers are overinflated..... It the cumulative loss of all jobs based upon failure.
Government maybe should not have to be the solution but the government is also what caused this problem with the housing bubble caused by the Clintion administration. In the end... it is the businesses that ARE at fault....The loans you refer to should have NEVER been made to the people that received them..... and it is now those businesses that are being nailed with the failure.... I know.... we (tax payers) are due to the bailouts.
Really don't matter WHOM you want to blame..... If the economy goes into a depression it will COST trillions and take YEARS to recover. A depression will COST a LOT more than the price of the bailouts.
Government maybe should not have to be the solution but the government is also what caused this problem with the housing bubble caused by the Clintion administration. In the end... it is the businesses that ARE at fault....The loans you refer to should have NEVER been made to the people that received them..... and it is now those businesses that are being nailed with the failure.... I know.... we (tax payers) are due to the bailouts.
Really don't matter WHOM you want to blame..... If the economy goes into a depression it will COST trillions and take YEARS to recover. A depression will COST a LOT more than the price of the bailouts.
I agree with you till the last paragraph. We keep spending money that we don't have, sometime in my future that is going to come back and bite me in the ***. The spending of debt and the idea of "well we owe money to ourselves so the national debt isn't really debt" is killing the value of the dollar. We can spend more and more and try to stay away from recession/depression, but eventually it will lead to rapid, out-of-control inflation.
My taxes contribute every day to those vets and my donations do as well. Me buying an American car has no direct effect on them. My buying a forgien car does directly impact the big 3, and makes them realize they are behind the 8 ball, they can either step up or step out.
All that excellent product and yet so many (obviously biased and uneducated) consumers still chose to go elsewhere.
They (and their grandchildren) will pay dearly for that decision someday.
Fortunately I don't have kids so I sure do hope for the sake of your's (and other's) that I'm wrong.
At least my conscience is clear.
Of course the wrong choices made today could in fact lead to having NO choices left at all tomorrow.
Even if you're looking at the volume of the smaller items, we're still talking about A LOT of $25k - $80k vehicles here as well.
Last edited by LS1LT1; Dec 19, 2008 at 03:25 AM.
Nice dismissive and smug response. 
Quite bold of you to believe that only your opinion is correct here because that's all it is (this goes for my statements as well of course), an opinion.
One of us may be right or wrong here and/or perhaps neither one of us is but all I ask is for you to please remember, for many years to come, the words I've written above, as irrational or illogical as they may sound to your sharp and keen intellect.
I truly hope that I'm wrong about the potentially disastrous results/fallout of so many American citizens purchasing only import nameplate vehicles.
Time will tell (or has it already been told?).
Quite bold of you to believe that only your opinion is correct here because that's all it is (this goes for my statements as well of course), an opinion.One of us may be right or wrong here and/or perhaps neither one of us is but all I ask is for you to please remember, for many years to come, the words I've written above, as irrational or illogical as they may sound to your sharp and keen intellect.
I truly hope that I'm wrong about the potentially disastrous results/fallout of so many American citizens purchasing only import nameplate vehicles.
Time will tell (or has it already been told?).
Neither do I but...
just how comfortable are you with hungry homeless people, maybe even some being relatives of yours, sleeping on your front lawn and begging you for food?
Yeah, that's the spirit, don't bother supporting an American icon (an American institution even) purely out of principle or spite, way to be a team player dude.
That's ok, someone like yourself would be happier in an Accord anyway.
just how comfortable are you with hungry homeless people, maybe even some being relatives of yours, sleeping on your front lawn and begging you for food?
Yeah, that's the spirit, don't bother supporting an American icon (an American institution even) purely out of principle or spite,
way to be a team player dude. That's ok, someone like yourself would be happier in an Accord anyway.
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From: USS Enterprise 1701
The purpose of the bailouts is NOT to save any individual company.... but to save the economy from a depression.
Sure.... all the spending may eventually lead to inflation.... but a depression will be worse than the inflation.
In the coming months.... the incoming Obama administration will spend up to a $1 Trillion dollars on programs that should worry us much more than the money spent on an auto bailout.
Sure.... all the spending may eventually lead to inflation.... but a depression will be worse than the inflation.
In the coming months.... the incoming Obama administration will spend up to a $1 Trillion dollars on programs that should worry us much more than the money spent on an auto bailout.
Spending is the reason we are where we are now. Bailouts will only exacerbate the problem.
Price levels have been soaring for years due to lending and trying to cover the costs of lending on what we don't have. We can't live like this any longer.
Price levels have been soaring for years due to lending and trying to cover the costs of lending on what we don't have. We can't live like this any longer.
This is very bad.
Yeah, that's the spirit, don't bother supporting an American icon (an American institution even) purely out of principle or spite, way to be a team player dude.
That's ok, someone like yourself would be happier in an Accord anyway.
way to be a team player dude. That's ok, someone like yourself would be happier in an Accord anyway.
Why would I be happier in an Accord? I guess my 4-year involvement in FSAE and dropping a V8 into a sports car is very typical of the common Accord owner?
Then what do you suppose should or will happen to all of those that will lose their sources of income and employment (with likely no other sources available once it's gone) after the Big 3 close their doors?
It's not just the people who bolt the vehicles together ya know...it's the guy who stamps the brass threaded fittings for the intake manifold in Pittsburgh.
It the woman at the paper mill in Seattle that makes the boxes that the waterpumps get shipped in.
It's the plastics manufacturer in Maryland that molds the side marker lenses for trucks.
And of course the boxmaker that supplies the boxes to the plastics manufacturer.
And the printer who puts the logos on the boxes.
And company that manufactures the machines that make the molds and printing equipment.
And the trucking company that picks up and delivers to ALL of these locations.
And the diner up the block from these locations where these people (used to) eat their breakfast/lunch.
And the food/provisions suppliers and delivery drivers to that diner.
And so on.
All gone or at least severely reduced in capacity output. Game over.
Whether you or I believe in welfare or not, something is going to have to be done about the now millions of people suddenly without food, shelter, heat, shoes etc after you've so boldly denied their employers at least the fighting chance to stay in business.
Oh well, not your problem I guess...or is it?
Not likely.
I don't know.
Maybe it's because of the same silly reason why you'd suddenly decided that you no longer wanted a Camaro SS?
It's not just the people who bolt the vehicles together ya know...it's the guy who stamps the brass threaded fittings for the intake manifold in Pittsburgh.
It the woman at the paper mill in Seattle that makes the boxes that the waterpumps get shipped in.
It's the plastics manufacturer in Maryland that molds the side marker lenses for trucks.
And of course the boxmaker that supplies the boxes to the plastics manufacturer.
And the printer who puts the logos on the boxes.
And company that manufactures the machines that make the molds and printing equipment.
And the trucking company that picks up and delivers to ALL of these locations.
And the diner up the block from these locations where these people (used to) eat their breakfast/lunch.
And the food/provisions suppliers and delivery drivers to that diner.
And so on.
All gone or at least severely reduced in capacity output. Game over.
Whether you or I believe in welfare or not, something is going to have to be done about the now millions of people suddenly without food, shelter, heat, shoes etc after you've so boldly denied their employers at least the fighting chance to stay in business.
Oh well, not your problem I guess...or is it?
Not likely.
I don't know.
Maybe it's because of the same silly reason why you'd suddenly decided that you no longer wanted a Camaro SS?
Then what do you suppose should or will happen to all of those that will lose their sources of income and employment (with likely no other sources available once it's gone) after the Big 3 close their doors?
It's not just the people who bolt the vehicles together ya know...it's the guy who stamps the brass threaded fittings for the intake manifold in Pittsburgh.
It the woman at the paper mill in Seattle that makes the boxes that the waterpumps get shipped in.
It's the plastics manufacturer in Maryland that molds the side marker lenses for trucks.
And of course the boxmaker that supplies the boxes to the plastics manufacturer.
And the printer who puts the logos on the boxes.
And company that manufactures the machines that make the molds and printing equipment.
And the trucking company that picks up and delivers to ALL of these locations.
And the diner up the block from these locations where these people (used to) eat their breakfast/lunch.
And the food/provisions suppliers and delivery drivers to that diner.
And so on.
All gone or at least severely reduced in capacity output. Game over.
Whether you or I believe in welfare or not, something is going to have to be done about the now millions of people suddenly without food, shelter, heat, shoes etc after you've so boldly denied their employers at least the fighting chance to stay in business.
Oh well, not your problem I guess...or is it?
It's not just the people who bolt the vehicles together ya know...it's the guy who stamps the brass threaded fittings for the intake manifold in Pittsburgh.
It the woman at the paper mill in Seattle that makes the boxes that the waterpumps get shipped in.
It's the plastics manufacturer in Maryland that molds the side marker lenses for trucks.
And of course the boxmaker that supplies the boxes to the plastics manufacturer.
And the printer who puts the logos on the boxes.
And company that manufactures the machines that make the molds and printing equipment.
And the trucking company that picks up and delivers to ALL of these locations.
And the diner up the block from these locations where these people (used to) eat their breakfast/lunch.
And the food/provisions suppliers and delivery drivers to that diner.
And so on.
All gone or at least severely reduced in capacity output. Game over.
Whether you or I believe in welfare or not, something is going to have to be done about the now millions of people suddenly without food, shelter, heat, shoes etc after you've so boldly denied their employers at least the fighting chance to stay in business.
Oh well, not your problem I guess...or is it?
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From: Blackwood, NJ
You bleeding heart liberal commie bastard! How dare you care about another human being!