Irunelevens

Yeah, I don't know wtf that guy is talking about.

DiscerningZ32

I hope you're not trying to say Porsches are reliable anywhere in that fuddled statement.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

That does apply to some models (the S Class for one maybe) yes, but go ask the average first generation ML320 owner what they think about Mercedes Benz reliability/dependability/build quality LOL.
Those things were horrible.

Irunelevens

You know the worst part of talking **** about ML320 build quality, and how Honda/Toyota have not been as well-built in the past 5-10 years? That's when Honda/Toyota started building a lot of their cars in America, and the ML320 was one of Benz's first automobiles assembled here...

LEO

iTrader: (3)

Good point. I'm saying in general Mercedes makes the best sedans. However, America is making more stylish, reliable and better overall sedans then they have in the past. I'm liking this trend.

Irunelevens

Yeah I know, that was in response to LS1LT1

LEO

iTrader: (3)

I was agreeing with you.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Ahhh, and therein lies the rub.

So often when confronted by those who go off on people for buying their Toyotas/Hondas/BMWs/Mercedes, the response from those owners is all too often "yeah, well, it was made in Kentucky, Ohio, South Carolina, Alabama etc so it's ok, I actually did buy an American car, see".
Yet when the quality/reliability of these very same vehicles gets questioned then all of a sudden the response is "well, it's made in the U.S. so what do you expect".
Quite interesting that the very same answer can be utilized in response to two entirely separate criticisms...how convenient.
Ya can't have it both ways bro.

LEO

iTrader: (3)

Try reading post #45, I said that America is making better sedans, not the best. As in improved over previous years.

Irunelevens

I just said it was an interesting situation. My Frontier was made in America, and I have nothing but praise for it, and I personally don't have any problems with the other Hondas/Toyotas/Nissans/Benzes/BMWs/etc made in America. BUT; the apparent "decline" in build quality and reliability of all those brands did start happening when they moved production to the US. That's a hard statistic.

kain01

QUOTE=Jakes Dad;MY ARGUEMENT HAS BEEN YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY FOR A NON DOMESTIC RWD VEHICLE THAT COSTS MORE TO HAVE A FUN CAR TO DRIVE..No you can get a G8 or CTS a RWD luxury vehicle to compete with RWD luxury vehicle'syou listed, the Malibu is not in their price range, not in the sports performance range, or in the sane driving experience range.

WOW YOU'RE AS SHARP AS A TACK. YOU'RE RIGHT CHEVROLET VEHICLES DON'T COST AS MUCH AS THE ONES I LISTED. You listed a midsize economy car to compete against European luxury cars, that, by the way, have been the standard of the world for over 20 years in sedan luxury and performance. Drive one. (I am by the way the biggest supporter for GM you will ever see and firnly believe the CTS and G8 kick those cars buttt)

THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT 4 DOOR SEDANS. NOT A GENERAL OPINION ON THE AUTO INDUSTRY. 4 door econoboxes, and you threw in the RWD luxury supercars.

WHY DO YOU WORK FOR CHEVROLET IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE PRODUCTS?????!!!!!!! ALL CHEVROLET SALES ASSOCIATES, AND EVERY OTHER BRAND, ARE TESTED ON PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE. HOW MANY ZR1 TESTS ARTICLES HAVE THERE BEEN? WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBABLY HAVE WANTED TO KNOW? "GIVE ME A SHOT AT YOUR ALL IMPORTANT QUESTIONS" JAKES DAD WHY WOULD ANY COMMISSION SALES ASSOCIATE WASTE TIME TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT SUCH A LOW VOLUME VEHICLE? I'VE BEEN TELLING THIS BOARD, FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS, MOST CAR GUYS ARE GONE FROM THE AUTO INDUSTRY. Then the people I talked to failed those test's. They didn't even have the everyday posted information from GMInsisdenews (where I get my info). It's retarded to sell something you are not passionate about. My question was a simple one actually. In small conversation I asked if he knew about the new LS9 engine. He said he had never heard of it.

WHY GO TO 6 DEALERSHIPS? YOU'RE A CHEVY GUY! WHY IN THE HELL DON'T YOU KNOW THE OWNER OF YOUR FAVORITE CHEVROLET DEALER? WHO IS YOUR PAST SALES ASSOCIATE? YOU SHOULD KNOW THE PARTS MANAGER ON A FIRST NAME BASIS. I'LL BET YOU DON'T! LMAO, Pay attention. I have yet to be to a dealership that knows more about their product than I do. And I don't work for GM at all.

WITH THE LIMITED PRODUCTION NUMBERS THE ZR-1 WILL HAVE - ONLY HIGH VOLUME CORVETTE DEALERS WILL HAVE INFORMATION. LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE HINT. WHEN YOU ARE INTERESTED IN A 100K VEHICLE DO A LITTLE LEG WORK. TRY THE INTERNET - PHONE - FIND OUT WHO AT THE DEALERSHIP BEST KNOWS ABOUT THE PRODUCT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. DON'T DRIVE TO THE DEALERSHIP IN YOUR UGO OR WHAT EVER. DON'T PULL YOUR PANTS UP THREE TIMES FROM THE CAR TO THE BUILDING. DON'T DRIVE AROUND THE LOT LOOKING FOR A MODEL. I refuse to waste my time with a dealerships salesmen. If I want a car I find it on autotrader walk on the lot and buy it after a test drive and I inspect it. Your job is to say yes or no when I ask you if you have something. If I don't know what I'm looking for I shouldn't be at a lot.

AND YES I DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SELL CHEVROLETS. NORMALLY USED BECAUSE MY USED CARS STAND OUT. #2 IN THE AREA FOR CERTIFIED GM CARS OUT OF 26 DEALERS. ALL OF THIS HAPPENS IN OHIO. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THE WORLD OF AUTOMOBILE SALES I'LL GET YOU A JOB. Whoopdy doo. I wasn't attacking you personally so don't get all offended. I was sharing with you my experiences with the dealerships in my area. I doubt you sell cars in KY, so calm down.

Ok, that last comment wasn't directed at you specifically, but seriously know your job or let people who know the industry in to try and help it.
OK YOU MADE THE STATEMENT. SEND ME A PM. IF YOU'RE DRUG FREE AND HAVE A CLEAN DRIVING RECORD I'LL MAKE YOU A STAR!


LOL I'm on this board which means I drive one of the heaviest targeted cars in the world for speeding tickets. So my driving record blows. Again I didn't attack you specifically, but there is no comparison to a BMW 3/Infiniti G37/Audi A6 and a Malibu. The Malibu is a superb car, but those cars are like comparing the Cobalt SS to an Aston Martin Vantage. They are specifically designed to be performance luxury sedans and the Malibu is not. That is my main point. Keep the Malibu's/Fusion's/Camry's Accord's together. And the 3's/A6's/G37's/CTS' together.

kain01

I'd love a job in the auto industry, but my driving record means I can't get salesman insurance (I've tried). If nothing else I'd love to just go around and educate people on upcoming products. I keep up with the auto shows and told a person that works at the Georgetown Toyota pkant the other day he's getting a new 2.5 4 cylinder engine for the Camry, and he found out about it a week later.

petechapter50

iTrader: (1)

let me point out the point that everyone is missing on this thread. if you're on this thread then you're a car guy. you don't think like the rest of the world when it comes to cars. you're talking about fun to drive and performance when the majority of america ...and the world doesent give a ****! look at the camry. have you ever driven a camry? it is probiblly the lamest car to drive ever! absolutlly no fun. fwd and no power. they handle like **** and don't even have the power to spin the tires at all. hell i think the inside of them sucks too. but they sell like hot cakes! the moral of the story is america gm is trying to build quality cars for people like us but the reality people are idiots and want shitboxes like the camry

Irunelevens

Um... have you ever driven a Camry/Accord? It's not a "shitbox," just because it's not a performance car.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

True, definitely not shitboxes...but I think his point is that they are simply 'refrigerators on wheels', basic appliances for getting from point A to point B which is essentially true.

DannoWS6

iTrader: (5)

I've owned / driven a lot of nice reliable domestic sedans.

I had a 92 Chevy lumina with over 230k miles on it when I was a teen, Had my bro not wrapped it around a tree it might still be running.

My brother had a 2000 GTP GP, nice car I thought, 3800's are reliable and offer great power S/C.

My Mom Had a GTP Comp G, that was a nice car and good fit and finish.
She now has an 06 Impala LT, which is a solid car. (no comp G though)

Just to throw it in the mix I even had a 93 Jeep Cherokee which I beat on and I traded it in just over a year ago (that truck just kept going), for my Bonneville GXP, again another nice domestic sedan.

I've been in and driven Corrolas and Camry's and compared to the domestic counterparts I really don't care for them. Sure I am a little biased, but I like the styling better and the power plant options. Plus I'd rather wrench on a domestic vehicle any day of the week. I think they are cheaper to maintain and buy parts for as well.

Pontiac has always put in the extra effort over chevy to make things a bit nicer, but the new Malibus are really nice car's. I would consider one for what we all call an "econobox" car.

I even test drive a Cobalt SS (S/C), and compared to say a mazda 3 I drove, I liked it better in every way. My wife has a 06 G6 coupe, she loves it, coming from a toyota celica.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you maintain and keep your car's. If you have any half decent car and you take care of it and not beat it all day long it will last a long time. Domestic and Imports have their share of failures. I will admit the interiors in domestics have come a long way in the last 10 years.

Irunelevens

All I'm saying (and all I've been saying) is that there used to be a large quality gap, up until fairly recently. Like, 5 years ago kinda recently. If you argue that, you're only kidding yourself. Even the automakers acknowledge that. Like the GM commercials that have a car in shadows talking about it's great features, and then it will light up and say, "The blah blah blah... made by GM. Surprised?" That's them saying, "I know you would never expect us to make something this good, but look how far we've come." For something to come far, it has to be far away to begin with. It's not like I'm insulting the cars for acknowledging their shortcomings. One of my favorite cars (C4 Corvette) is far from perfect, and falls short in many categories. It doesn't stop me from loving the cars, but for me to put them up on a pedestal just because I love them is ridiculous.

DannoWS6

iTrader: (5)

LOL I think that was the saturn commercial. Which before they were owned by GM they were throw away cars for sure.

kain01

Saturn has been owned by GM since they opened there doors in 1985. They have been a throw away brand until the Saturn Aura came out, and any exec with a brain would've canceled this failure long before 2001.

Irunelevens

Yeah, Saturn was STARTED by GM (I don't know how anybody doesn't know that), and it wasn't a "Saturn commercial." There are several of them, about several different GM cars.