Sax1031

I disagree. When I think of a modern ZL1 I imagine it going after the Cobra Jet/Super Cobra Jet mustangs.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

What would you call an LSA powered Camaro then?

I admit that certainly an LS7 Camaro would be more appropriately named "ZL1", but of all the monikers I can recall, ZL1 is about the most appropriate that I can see for this new Camaro. Certainly far more fitting than "Z28".

RedVertTA

iTrader: (9)

+1

Since the ls7 camaro is supposed to have more power than the current SS it would make sense to give it a name befitting of this. The SS has always had a better powerplant than the z28 and it stayed that way till 2002. Why then would GM swap the names and grant the lesser z28 designation the more powerful engine while making the SS wield the lesser engine?

Think about it, naming it the z28 would be equivalent to bringing back the Firebird and giving the Formula the ls7 and giving the Trans Am the ls3.

Naming the ls7 camaro the ZL1 makes much more sense, especially when considering that back in the day the ZL1 was actually making ls7 like power. Originally the power hierarchy was as follows: Z28<SS<ZL1. That's the way it was from 1966-2002 and ought to stay that way today.

Sopcich04

Next generation will be the LR-1, R because it went t-s, now R. also, R could stand for racing

RedVertTA

iTrader: (9)

Interesting, where did you find this?

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I doubt that...makes far too much sense for GM.

skorpion317

iTrader: (8)

There are plenty of reasons to name the "top dog" Camaro a Z/28. They were the top model Camaro for more years than the SS. The 1st gen Z/28 and SS had completely different missions - the SS was more a street car, while the Z/28 was a harder-edged "race car" for the street. The most powerful SS396 only ran a tenth or two quicker in the 1/4 mile than the Z/28, and the Z/28 would absolutely slaughter the SS396 on a road course. When they decided to use the SS name on the 4th gens, it was only because it was a recognized name from the brand's past, not because it was more special than the Z/28. Also, the Corvette uses "Z" designations for its top-level models (Z51, Z06, ZR1).

And lastly, any Chevy can be an SS. Only a Camaro can be a Z/28.

RedVertTA

iTrader: (9)

Road coarse prowess has nothing to do with the issue. We are not talking about the next GM road race monster, we are talking about an ls7 camaro which will probably share most if not all of the same suspension components as the SS.

Now if GM decides to come out with a pro-touring oriented version of the new camaro the z28 designation would make sense.

Regardless there was more power in the SS version of the same car.

What Corvette uses for its top level designations is irrelevant but even if it were the case ZL1 would still meet this criteria.

You forgot that only a Camaro can be a ZL1.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

RPO's refer to equipment, not performance. When you buy an SS or Z28, you are buying for what the car is, not what it does. What it does is an effect of how it's equipped. To put this into perspective, i'll use this example - if you buy a car with certain RPO's and you don't get certain promised features, you have a legit complaint to go to the manufacturer with...but you can't go back to them if the car isn't as fast as you thought it would be (If you buy a Camaro SS, and it doesn't have the brembo brakes, well then GM has to do something about it since those are part of the SS package...but if you race an LT and lose, you can't expect GM to do anything for you just because your car isn't as fast as you expected).

So, in conclusion, just because a Z28 may or may not have been faster in certain situations for certain periods of time doesn't mean that the fastest camaro should be called Z28. To be appropriately called a "Z28", the car should be lighter in weight than an SS, have a smaller motor, and less options. Was there ever an instance where the Z28 and SS both existed and the Z28 offered more options than the SS? I don't believe that ever was the case.

skorpion317

iTrader: (8)

Where are you even discussing an LS7 Camaro? That is DEFINITELY not happening, at least not from GM. The LS7 is way too expensive to have in the Camaro. It would increase the MSRP of the Camaro to an unreasonable amount.

The LS1 SS didn't make any more power than the Z28. As we all know, the LS1 F-bodies were underrated. They all made about 350 HP at the crank. The advertised numbers were lower so that potential base model Corvette buyers wouldn't go for the ~$15-$20K cheaper F-bodies. The only real advantage the SS had over the Z28 was a better suspension and tires.

Chevy in general has used "Z" designations and RPOs for top models and special equipment for lots of different models:

Cavalier: Z24
Beretta: Z26
Camaro: Z28
Corvette: Z51, Z06, ZR1
Lumina/Monte Carlo: Z34
Monza: Z29
Trucks: Z71

...except a Corvette can be a ZL1 also.

RedVertTA

iTrader: (9)

Isn't this what we've been discussing all this time? What to call the new upcoming "top dog" camaro? Whether the car gets an LS7 or LSA doesn't matter as far as what to call it goes.

Yes it did. The SS had ram air, didn't make much more power but made more regardless. The fact that the fbody was underrated is irrelevant, they were all equally underrated.

OK your right about that one, it slipped my mind. But still since the corvette is now the ZR1 the ZL1 name is open for the taking.

I don't know where you are going with this.

Irunelevens

Ok. So the new top-dog N/A 5.0 Mustang is the Boss 302. If the Camaro also gets a smaller displacement high-rev N/A V8, I think it would be appropriate to call the top model the Z28 as a tribute to the original Z28. ESPECIALLY if they decide to destroke it to a 302.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Exactly what I was getting at. Since the SS has the LS3, they could do something like an L76 powered Camaro with some weight reduction and removal of some options and call it Z28. Since the L76 is no slouch itself, the lighter weight could equate to this Camaro actually being faster than an SS...now that would be a true Z28.

A Camaro with all the options, and a larger and far more powerful engine, that is more than likely going to be HEAVIER than the SS...is not a Z28.

Lethal Z

Whats an unreasonable amount? I for one would like to know what the cost of an LS7 powered camaro would be. The rumor I've been hearing on the cost of the new Z28 is supposed to be $60K or better. As far as im concerned thats an unreasonable amount.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

No way the Z28 is going to be over $60k. It's going to be very comparable to the GT500 pricing, i'd even be willing to bet slightly lower (no Shelby surcharge). Over $60k is where the CTS-V sits...no way the Z28 will be anywhere near the CTS-V in price.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

If there was any extra power being made by an SS, it definitely isn't frmot he hood. It would be the exhaust making a few extra ponies. you do know that the LS1 SS hood doesn't feed the intake, right? So explain to me how the "ram air" would gain poewr when it isn't feeding anything.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I agree 100%.
Of course I own a Z28 so I have no choice but to agree LOL.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

It doesn't?
I thought that underneath the hood there was flat tubing/runners going forward and around from that NACA duct scoop going right into the airbox just like on a WS6 (though obviously far less useful/efficient than a WS6's 'straight shot' ram air)?
Minimal power gains (if any) no doubt but I do believe on a factory 4th gen SS hood that air from the scoop does feed into the airbox.

skorpion317

iTrader: (8)

An unreasonable amount would be north of $50K for a 5th gen Z/28. At that price point, it becomes harder to justify buying a Camaro. That kind of money is Corvette territory. People already talk about the GT500's price ("You're paying how much for a Mustang???) - having an uber-expensive Camaro just won't work. And we all know stealerships will jack the price of the Z/28 up anyway. The lower the MSRP, the less they can get away with.

The LS7 is very expensive per unit. IIRC, they cost about twice as much as an LSA. They're hand-built, use more exotic materials vs. the regular LSx engines, etc. etc.

RedVertTA

iTrader: (9)

This z28 crap is getting boring, why don't we get back to the original discussion folks?