Lethal Z

There I fixed it for you. You are aware the cars in your signature were built by union workers aren't you. Talk about failed logic. Maybe you should spend your money on an import next time. Perhaps Kia or Hundai, the wages those guys make should be more to your liking.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

We do let the free market work. Its called NAFTA. As a result we now have auto plants in Mexico where the workers build cars they cant afford to own. Thats the nature of corporations. Its already been stated, they have an obligation to the share holders. Therefore any expense is a target of management. Case in point...

In 1999 CASE IH merged with New Holland and passed on its pension responsibilities to an outside firm who then canceled payments for all union CASE retirees that retired under their contract. When the UAW took them to court the firm fought for four years to have the case moved Wisconsin in hopes to have an anti-union judge hear the case. Instead it was ordered to be remain in Michigan and the UAW won the ruling. Only the contract those workers bargained for saved their benefits that CASE IH promises them. So when people like to claim that the days of corporate cruelty are over I often wonder just how close people truly examine free market.

89 formula350

iTrader: (8)

I used to be part of a union and I can say IT SUCKED! the only good was we got our raises on time like clock work.. even the **** off got the raises but when the company closed guess what??? lot of good that did

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Best post of the whole thread. There is ONE car in my sig, not carSSSS. Union workers skipped grammer class I suppose. And I DD a Hyundai Betty Boop.

88blackgt

That didnt answer any of my questions.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Now THIS, is reality.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

gimme a question you want answered?

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

So it was your fault that the company closed? Why didnt your contract have a clause that prevent closure?

Darksol

I would start with a minimum wage requirement that means even a high school drop out will make a set amount at least. Yes, they are below the poverty line but his wages in a free market would increase as his/her skills make him/her a more attractive employee. As he accrues experience and builds skill sets he will be moved up the ladder. He would have to show that he is valuable and that he is worth not only keeping but is a asset to his company. In a union none of that matters. As long as he pays his union dues and shows up for work he will be protected. He will not have to prove his worth over another. He will not have to exceed expectations. He is safe. As long as the place hes working is open at least. Unions protect the ones that wouldn't pull their weight and if someone does come in and performs beyond expectations someone pull them to the side and tells them to pull it back a bit and not overachieve. When unions were established there wasn't a minimum wage, there wasn't OSHA or any other watch dog group to look out for employee welfare. I would say large steps have been taken to improve employee welfare and those first steps were in part because of unions. There is a huge number of people who live a comfortable life without having a union job. If unions were so popular still you would hear of new ones being formed especially now. Instead we have a show on NBC making fun of outsourcing and politicians grandstanding with their views on illegal immigrants working in this country. Perhaps its a culture issue. How much does it cost a union to have workers picket a company using non union labor? Or rent billboard space to point out a company that uses non union labor? Obviously if it comes down to spin control between large companies and union and unions are getting bad publicity from better spin control by big business then perhaps the unions should pick their fights better or do a better job at showing that they are truly fighting against a evil corporation and are at a disadvantage when it comes to wages, benefits and that they are not the bad guy.

Darksol

And how are the unions protecting us from that? Legal extortion that allows arm twisting of a company to pay a mob to go back to work. Any union in this job market that goes on strike should immediately be replaced with those currently on unemployment.


While I don't share your affinity for unions I fail to see how I'm mindless. I don't see unions saving us from overpaid CEO's or outsourcing. We let our greed take over instead of our ability to innovate and motivate. We hand out trophies to children just for participating. We reward mediocrity. We don't rise to anything. We lead the world in science innovations for the first 60 years of the last decade and watched the world catch up and pass us in the last 40. Unions protect lazy and unproductive people. They encourage the overachievers to slow down so they don't make the status quo look bad. If they can't become more productive and efficient they will find themselves the same way a lot of others are, unemployed.

Darksol

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/02/inf...-workers-only/

It shows that the president is "encouraging" unions be sought to work on projects. Not forcing but its politics.

Why is anyone who offers a non union view full of nonsense? The example of the Illinois construction crew on strike is not a valid argument?


If "thats how it goes" then why do unions picket companies and rent billboards to point out contracts they didn't win? Why do they pull the "look, look this company found a less expensive alternative to us, hate them for it" attitude. Non union companies don't pull that stunt. I make perfectly valid arguments you only respond with union rhetoric no facts.

Darksol

If a non UAW company made my car I would have bought it. Cars are not the same as Blueray players. Tons of training? Really? All of them? No. Case in point, the guy who holds the slow/stop sign in a construction zone. Yeah I bet it was 6 weeks of book study and 3 weeks of on the job training there. Or the USPS clerk that puts a package on a scale and tells you what the postage is. Yup. Its a mind bender alright. Welding, is a skill. So is plumbing and carpentry, and many others but a lot of these "careers" are not skill intensive. That is where some of the friction comes from. These union people, do they volunteer more than non union people? Do they donate more? Do they enrich the community? So because I don't belong to a union my money is not being spent in my neighborhood? If I buy a cube of Pepsi and a union employee bought a cube of Pepsi his/her money helps the community more than mine?

180ls1

iTrader: (4)

there you go

Darksol

So because he feels that unions are a negative he should buy non union products only? Your so pro union where is your union made TV, blueray player, game console, the computer you're using to login from or any other household electronics? Who's making them? There's your failed logic.

Was your house made by a union? Is everything in your life dictated by your union views? The world is not black and white it has shades of gray. Next to nothing is 100% union and parts things like cars likely include parts from non union companies like car stereos.

Darksol

So a company has a product that is not selling and because its made in a factory that signed a clause to prevent closure they should dream up a product for that factory to produce? That's not good business at all.

They used to make Covettes in St. Louis. Build quality was horrible. G.M. opened the Bowling Green plant and build quality when up. Had G.M. had to honor such a agreement then the quality likely would not have improved. How is employing incompetent workers a good business practice?

180ls1

iTrader: (4)

you need to stop making sense

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

theyre not doing anything wrong theyre allowed to picket as long as its withhin the law. alot of times here when malls go up or are being expanded theyre using southern labor non union labor at a non union rate. i guess its ok to expect to have a local economy support you but not feel any obligation to support it? BS IMO.

in that link the president isnt forcing anyone to do anything so that was weak.

i never said non union views are full of nonsense but alot of it is.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

there i go nothing lol.


first you dont know that the best contractor wasnt chosen and saying it goes on in SD doesnt mean everywhere.


perfect example of non union nonsense lol.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

and yet Its still assembled by UAW workers. you lose.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

youre right. next time i hope your house is wired or your plumbing is fixed by a poorly trained illegal because you want a lower rate think training by a union that demandsa better wage is stupid lol.


do you want or get raises at your job? who does that get passed onto? i dont think youre worth that and should take a paycut.