Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

You'll be able to do even better with the Volt when it's "15 yr old technology". How much was your insight brand new? You're basically complaining about a car that is now what the car you own was when it was new.

Irunelevens

Insight was ~$20k new, btw.

-Ross-

iTrader: (2)

Many people think it's a good idea.

You're not paying $40k for just the mpg. The Volt has a lot of creature comforts too.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Thank you.

So about 10 years ago, people paid $20k for a feature-less two seater that could barely muster 50mpg. That same car would be nearly $30k today. Compare what the Insight offered to what the Volt now offers (100mpg, four seats, and premium trim for starters) and take into consideration the price inflation. It's hard to say that the Volt is anything but a reasonable deal when you look at the whole picture.

Irunelevens

Depends what you call "feature-less." It had A/C and a stereo, which was about all you could hope for in a $20k car ten years ago. Many of the "features" that the Volt has weren't available on anything back then. I know you are trying to show the value of the Volt, but trying to downplay the Insight isn't the way to do it. It was the first hybrid sold to the public, and that's saying something. And if you read, 1320 said he averages 75mpg in the city... so as far as the Insight being able to "barely muster 50mpg," there's evidence otherwise.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

Do you really consider one owner's claim to be evidence? The vast majority of owners have reported 50mpg AT BEST. I mean my daily driver 2004 Grand Prix averages 25mpg in mixed (closer to city than highway) driving...but I don't know of ANY other GP/Impala/Monte owners that get anywhere near that with their cars. I have no idea why mine does so well...it's like a factory freak, only with MPG instead of HP. Maybe he's got a factory freak or has just learned to how really wring efficiency out of that car.

It'llrun

He also said his is modified. Honda claims 43hwy 40cty.

The Volt isn't "reasonable" in my view. The Insight(which I would NOT own either) still starts at under 20K today... That's about 1/2 what I've heard the Volt is and it is far from "feature-less" from what their website says, offering such additional information as outside temp and current mpg, etc. on the dash with the push of a button. It even has automatic climate control, standard, along with power windows(auto up/down for driver), speed sensitive volume control, and quite a bit more... standard equipment is surprising in some aspects. The lack thereof is surprising in others.

Today's model weighs in around 2700 lb too, meaning that 98hp will have to work really hard to get the job done. Of course, I don't see the Volt being any better off, if as good.

Volt is listed at 93mpg unless using the gasoline only mode, which drops it to 60mpg. That's still the best overall car on the road, but most of us couldn't beg a way to care less because we just don't care for the car and don't want to be told we need to have one in order to save fuel or for any other reason.

I won't be considering a Volt or an Insight, Prius, etc. for various reasons, the biggest being they're totally incapable of accomplishing the job I need my vehicle to do. Besides, I have a motorcycle if I wanna save fuel that badly.

For whatever reason, I can't get chevy.com to work properly, so I can't check into their version of "Volt facts" for comparison. No matter really. I ain't about to buy one when I could get something far more practical for 10K plus less money... before I take the government payout, that is. That's another story, but I don't think it's remotely right for the government to provide cash incentives for me, or anyone else to purchase any vehicle for 1 simple reason... It's NOT the governments money to make such an offer!

As for old technology, I remember the Honda CRX back in the 80's getting about 50mpg... Lest we forget, the LS1 Camaro and Corvette both got excellent economy too, for a V8 and it was better than perhaps most V8's today along with some V6's.

My 2cents... Anyone buying a Volt, or whatever Hybrid today strictly for economy NOT based solely on their own ability to purchase fuel... is vain. Considering the cost of Volt, they're pretty well vain anyway.

Irunelevens

First off It'llrun, we're not talking about a new Insight. Second; for technology to progress, it needs to be funded. So if people DON'T buy today's hybrids, then the hybrids of tomorrow won't be here. It's not just a gas mileage thing. I say if you want a hybrid, buy a hybrid.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

It'llrun, I think it's pretty pathetic that your so quick to judge someone as being vain based on what they drive. Not sure who your referring too when you say "most of us" because I can assure you I do like the car and would buy one if I had a need for it.

It'llrun

To be sure, I don't care who, if anyone, buys and uses a Chevy Volt. However, I do care that they get tax dollars(well, GM does, effectively and actually) to make the purchase because *I* pay taxes.
It was brought up including the price. The fact is, whether or not it sold for 20K 10yrs ago means little. It sells for 20K today. Comparing that to the $41,000 Volt, even after the $7,500 governmental plan, leaves the Volt at $33,500 and that allows for THOUSANDS of miles with the Insight(or any of several other Hybrid vehicles) before reaching the initial price of Volt. One can buy a massive amount of gasoline for $13,500.00 and by then, the Volt will almost surely need a batter pack replacement... at about 5K not including labor. The TAX DOLLAR is paying for Volt, and it should not. At $2.50 per gallon, that's 5,400 gallons of fuel. With the Insight, that's roughly 221,400 miles. You've gotta be REALLY bad at math to think the Volt is a better purchase than the Insight, not to mention Prius or several other choices. If nothing else, keep in mind you're still paying for the electricity to charge the batteries. That cost quite a bit more than the fuel for the Volt, according to test results I've read. One "study" included 1291 miles and the fuel cost like 31 bucks... The electricity cost nearly $70 more. Total = about 99-105... Same number of miles with the Insight at "only" 41mpg... About $78.75 in fuel. With that in mind, VOLT is not on my short OR long list of considerations. I'm not buying EITHER, but the numbers do tell the story. Well, for me anyway.

If this is a major concern for you... YOU buy them! Battery packs aren't exactly new technology. Regardless, there's no justification to purchase an overpriced car just because you think Hybrids of tomorrow won't be around otherwise. The fact is, our government is spending OUR money to make certain that "advancement" can happen.

Sadly, our socialist lead government doesn't understand supply and demand. Apparently you don't either. Here's the deal... If we don't want it, we should NEVER be forced to pay for it. Of course, we ARE being forced to pay for it and I, for one(of about 100 million) am not the least bit impressed, let alone happy to know it.

From GM-Volt.com -- "The Volt is profoundly important to GM’s future viability. Speaking to how critical fuel cost is in the Volt equation, GM’s CEO Rick Wagoner had gone on record stating that a mandatory federal gas tax to keep gasoline at $4.00 per gallon minimum is “worthy of consideration.”

Considering $4.00pg minimum, it's totally obvious where this car is really getting America. Seems to me that many people are roaming around singing, "My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades." It seems they've wound up wearing rose colored glasses...

Are you most of us? How many people do you know who've been raving about the Volt? How many people do you know planning to purchase or lease one?

So you would buy one... That only proves you're bad at basic math... or you're vain. You WOULD, but won't, because, like most of us, you don't NEED one. On the other hand, if you have a JOB, you ARE buying... You're just paying for it though, and won't be driving it.

Btw, I said if someone buys one for fuel economy, but NOT because they cannot otherwise afford the fuel for a more practical automobile, they are vain. If the shoe fits... The Volt is highly overpriced for what one gets. Not just a couple grand, but several. We can see this based on the fact our government is so Hell bent on getting people to buy one, they STEAL other peoples money to make it happen! Were you or I to do this, we'd be hauled to jail. Aside from that fact, it IS the plan of our President to make electricity via fossil fuel so utterly expensive, the producers go OUT of business. It's his PLAN to bankrupt those companies and he SAID SO himself... Yet you find it a great idea to purchase a car that MUST have electricity to operate properly, at it's high efficiency rate. As I said... bad at basic math.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Get off your soap box numb-nuts. Yes actually, I was seriously considering buying one. And because of two reasons I didn't get one. First reason being I needed a car 3 months ago and it wasn't for sale yet and secondly, it wasn't clear how it was gonna fit my lifestyle seeing that I don't have to commute for work. But it's now been made a little clearer that it does have the ability to commute long distances easily so the only reason I didn't get one is because it wasn't for sale in late September early October when I needed a car.

Hence THIS post...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/racers-lo...ying-volt.html

And as you can see in that post the "Most of us" that I'm referring to is what the poll indicates. Clearly a third of all who took the poll liked and suggested the Volt and of those who chose the other options still liked the Volt but because it didn't fit my life-style needs it wouldn't of fit me as well as the other options did.
So if your quite done making an *** out of yourself with your "witty" sarcasm you can see that Yes I was thinking about it and that Yes "most of us" do like the car.

And when it comes to the price of the car...Some people MAKE MORE MONEY than you... Hence why there are some hybrid's that cost way more than the Volt. Have you seen the Lexus line lately? The cheapest Hybrid Lexus sells starts at more than what the Volt is going for with the rebate in place. And the LS Hybrid STARTS at $110,000. And they are selling about one thousand of those a year here in the U.S. That's 110 million dollars in profit for Lexus in america alone on just one stupid car. Are you gonna say that anyone who buys a Lexus Hybrid is vain as well? Nevermind that because of course your gonna say that yes all lexus buyers are vain...

Some people's price range for buying new cars is $10K-$15K, others it's $15K-$25K, and so on. If someone's shopping for a new car and they are looking in the $30K-$40K range and they also want something fuel efficient than the volt fits right in. And before you get back on your soap box complaining about the market size of people shopping in that price range, it's actually one of the most popular and active price ranges. Just because someone has more money than you doesn't mean that they aren't financially conscious or prudent with it. As a matter of fact they are probably more money-wise than those who live pay check to pay check. You make it seem like coupons, and savings are just for the poor...
If you want a cheap car that get's great efficiency get the Nissan Leaf,
If you want something a little more expensive get the Insight
If you want something a little more refined, get the Prius,
Still not happy and want more mpg and luxury get the Volt,
Want to stand out get a Lexus, there are fuel efficient vehicles in all price ranges.


Other advantages to having a car that's fuel efficient such as the Volt, than saving money at the pump.
Such as...
- The convenience of practically never having to go to a gas station again,
- Some always need to have the latest and greatest new toy,
- Some people like the fact that it pollutes less,
- Some people also like the fact that it's supporting a new technology.

For someone who's sig makes as general a statement as yours does, how can you not be vain?

It'llrun

And I thought I ranted!!! WOW! You take the cake... And your post is LOADED with incorrect and/or useless information to boot!!!

The Volt cost less, AFTER our tax dollars get spent, than the Lexus... Which ALSO gets to use tax dollars... I could have this wrong, but I'm thinking the government is offering up to $7,500 on basically all Hybrids and some amount of cash for any of them including the extreme level Lexus. All told, you can EVEN buy a Lexus for less than a Chevy Volt. Only 5 Lexus cars start at less than the Volt... LEXUS... Somehow, you think it's great that a Chevrolet CAN cost less than a Lexus... Aside from the Corvette and some upper end pickups, basically NO Chevy has been more expensive than any Lexus since, oh, idonno... 1989??? But you're impressed that this WANNABE just might cost less than a Lexus, which is already vastly overpriced.

In your list beginning with cheap... You start with the Nissan LEAF... Okay, except then you mention the Insight, which carries an MSRP about $12,000 LESS than LEAF.
Then you go to Prius on "refinement" and blatantly state the NEXT step up is Volt? How do YOU know? I'll BET you've never even SEEN a Volt in person!!! NOT ONCE! And you know that's the case.

You seem convinced the Volt is some high-filuting ride... It's NOT, truly. Look what GM says about it. There's little mention of how "refined" or "luxurious" this car is. It's a BOX ON WHEELS! Besides, it hasn't been on the street 1 week yet, in the hands of actual owners. For all we know, this car will flop due to poor build quality. We don't know, but we do know it's no Lexus, it's only PRICED like one! Kinda like the inside Cadillac line... You can buy better, but you can't pay more...

As for you liking the car... SO WHAT? I'm supposed to care because YOU came along and started whining? Forget it, sport.

I'll give you credit... You didn't even know you were doing it, but you made the better choice and got the better vehicle only because you couldn't wait! Good for you!!! It's not often that total impatience pays off, but it definitely did this time. Congratulations! Now sit back and WATCH as the Chevrolet Volt FAILS MISERABLY due to lack of sales, even with the tax dollar buying 20% or so of every one sold. See... Dumb luck can help!

By the way... You're "scientific poll"(pun intended) meant nothing here. 1st of all, you didn't mention that poll until after you cried about it. Next, it was 14 of 37 people... what'd it say, 37%? Somehow, that's "worthy" in your opinion.

Take a poll here... Ask everyone if they'll even be CONSIDERING a Volt as their next daily driver... You can also ask if they really bought one in the end. I think you'll find a far greater number than 37% opt for something else.

Taking into consideration the overall cost of Volt, it's a BAD decision for about 99.999% of Americans. According to the person who did the longest(1291 miles) test(with a write up) for GM, it will cost MORE to operate the Volt than an Insight... On top of the TWENTY-THOUSAND DOLLAR price hike... Yeah, wonderful car...

Ultimately, MOST people will have the same result you did... It WON'T fit their lifestyle... With that, it can...

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Good job hop-along, you apparently don't know how to read. Seriously! Your M.O. seems to be read into what you want, distort it and then argue against it. I'm not comparing Lexus prices to GM price, thanks for pointing out the obvious though. Not surprising that the whole point of that comparison was lost on you either. So I'll try this again, sit in the front of the class this time so your not diddle'ing yourself in the back with hank the janitor. I'm pointing out that the STARTING price for the cheapest Lexus hybrid is $34,650 (not including delivery, dealer and options).

http://www.lexus.com/models/allModels/#/hybrids/

Add in options and what the **** have you to make it comparable in features to the Volt such as navigation which is standard on the Volt and the price for the cheapest Hybrid Lexus is closer to $40K. There are incentives and rebates for all Hybrid's but they vary for all models of all kinds and vary in all states. Point was that the VOLT is not as outrageously overpriced as you seem to think. Sad that I had to spell out for you what the point of my bring Lexus Hybrid's into the equation. Does that clear it up for you or you gonna start blabbing about the cost of a corvette and an IS-F?

And yes, I did mix up the price of the leaf with that of another hybrid car, big woop. I still don't see how that changes anything. Hell, considering what you get for the cost of the Leaf it makes the Volt look that much more appealing! And yes the Prius is a more refined and generally better car than the newest Insight as many automotive magazines and journalist have stated. And again you prove that your an idiot. And how in the hell do you know I've never seen a Volt, or even been in one? YOU DON'T, and you know that's the case. Point in fact I have, and just last week actually. Were you at the LA auto show last week with me? No? Hmmm...


So your current argument with the Volt is...
- A box on wheels
- poor build quality
- Not as luxurious as a Prius

and your reasoning is because, and I quote..."(You) don't know".
In what world is that supposed to prove a point? You expect me to get suckered into that discussion based on things you don't know? Try a little harder.

Implying that I would give a **** about what you think about my car taste is moving, no really it is, actually brings a tear to my eyes, but means absolutely nothing to me. Touched as I am by your concern that I value what you think, you again missed the whole point of what was being made, again...AGAIN.

I hate that I AGAIN have to spell things out for your dumb ***, but please return to the front of the class...I noticed you moved back into the corner with hank since two paragraph's ago.

You claiming that "most of us" to mean that MOST PEOPLE on here agree with you. And clearly that is not the case. Although I'm sure that there are SOME on here would agree with you, your kinda delusional to think that you speak for the majority of the people on here.


Awww, did the little boy get hurt? When the heck did you want me to mention that there was a poll taken 4-5 months ago comparing a few cars one of them being the Volt? Did you want me to post it before you started bitching and crying about how you represent everyone on here? Yeah that makes sense...


NO, you take a poll on here! I'm not here claiming to represent this community with invaluable opinion on one specific car. If you want to prove your point then get off your lazy *** and you make a poll and ask if you can have permission to represent the lot of us. Your not only ******* Dumb but Lazy too! Bravo!!

Your real problem here isn't so much as with the Volt as it is with the government incentives to buy Hybrid's. That you've made clear, so get off your soap-box about how you think this car is doomed to fail and go preach about the evil goverment and how life is terrible somewhere else.

WOW!!! You really think that the reason it didn't work for me will be the same for others?? Your saying most people don't have to commute to work? Most people people spend 40% of their time driving long distances of 400 miles or more? Most people tow as well? I mean you did read that thread right? Or did you just look at the poll and decide you got everything from that thread? I seriously doubt that 99.999999 % of the people don't have my kind of lifestyle and I think GM did a little more homework that you did to find out what market this car will have the best chance to succeed in.

It'llrun

Add in options? Some things on the Lexus aren't even available as options on the Volt. Chevy uses the GS 450h as the competitor (along with Prius). Look at the list of STANDARD features in comparison... Not even close. The Volt is about the same as Prius, but cost about $12,000 more, just like the Honda Insight. So the Volt comes with navigation... Are you THAT lost? DON'T ANSWER!

Back to the Lexus for a moment... The Volt simply doesn't have as many available options to make the two comparably equipped. That said, all these cars come well equipped and most are less expensive than Volt... It just looks like the $7,500 cash offer is added right back into the price of the car.

I'm not wasting my money on any Hybrid. NONE is worth it to me, and obviously to most people or these cars would be leading the list of high sales on the whole, which they're certainly not.

I think you're just lying to make yourself feel better at this point... No difference to me. I still don't like any of them and the LEAF may as well be the LEAD to me... dead weight. It has NAVIGATION TOO though...

You can act like a little girl and call names all you want. That won't sell these cars. Go ahead, sit there and pout... I don't care. In fact, I think it's kinda funny. Almost makes me miss my sisters...

It looks like a box on wheels to me, although not as much as the LEAD... If I said it has poor build quality, I can't find it. I also didn't say it's not as luxurious as the Prius. And you want me to try harder... At least I'm not sitting here making it up as I go. You're really starting to bore me. You lack tact, manners, almost civility, yet you preach... It seems you're rather used to talking down as if your counterpart is just some kid... I suspect that's what you generally seek out. This type of "debate" (if you were debating) requires adult etiquette and yours is missing.

You merely got "lucky" because the worse car wasn't yet available. Considering how you seem to think you're rich or something, why don't you just go trade UP to the Volt instead of the VW??? I won't care and you'll be able to feel better. It's a win win!

I don't like the fact you think you're so intelligent you need not proof read, but I'm living with it just fine, so PLEASE stop crying. You're not better than anyone else in the scheme of things and I've had my fill of dealing with youngsters who believe they have all the answers... THAT is precisely what you seem to be. I'm actually wondering when you'll reach your 25th birthday as opposed to when it may have happened. In simple terms, you're acting like a child. I only add that because it's clear you wouldn't be capable of figuring it out on your own, smart guy.

Make the poll and see for yourself. That is, if SEEING no long lines forming to buy the car isn't enough for you. The Camaro SS, by contrast, had THOUSANDS ordered before it was available... Not so much with the Volt.

Hurt? Jeeez CHILD, you truly are lost. Bringing up a poll from 3 months ago, in which all of 37 people wasted their time responding ONLY to help you... AFTER the fact... Yeah kid, that means a bunch to everyone. 37 people responded... out of what, 100,000? Great odds... Most people wouldn't bother because they lack ANY interest in the car. Sales will show this in short order. Yes, btw, mentioning the poll beforehand would've been the correct thing to do. Otherwise, you're asking people to read your mind. MOST of us never even saw the thread.

I'm neither dumb, nor lazy. I'm TOO intelligent to waste my time, and that of others, asking about a car I already KNOW most people have no interest in. You sure are sounding like a big kid though, calling names and trying so hard to make this personal... Grow up already.

You FINALLY figured it out! Congratulations genius! It only took you about 2 days and 10,000 wasted words... And you think I'm the dummy... Heh.. Way to go, junior. I believe it's wrong of the government to spend TAX dollars to sell something... If it WAS a better product, which it clearly isn't, the government wouldn't have to offer incentives or help pay for it. They're paying because, like me, they KNOW the general public wants little or nothing to do with the car, like nearly all Hybrids.

Without a doubt, though the specifics may differ little or greatly.

Use intelligence, even if you have to ask for help... What I said is, it won't fit the needs of most people. I didn't mention your specific situation as relevant to anyone else, let alone everyone else. The fact remains, the Volt DOES NOT meet the needs or desires of most people.

You doubt that 99.999999% of the people DON'T have your kind of lifestyle? So most people don't commute to work, etc??? Think it through... Take a breath... Try again.

The funny part is you seemed to think I was promoting some OTHER Hybrid. Why so serious? Does it hurt you that much that others don't agree with you? If so, you really DO need to grow up. I think you're just angry for the sake of being angry, kinda like a left wing liberal... Not really certain what you're mad about, but you're MAD AS HELL anyway! Welcome home... ZERO.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

Speaking of not wasting any more time on this...

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

WTF happened to this thread.

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Closed-minded trolls

It'llrun

Nice of you to come in and add so much... Speaking of trolls Mr. 1 post wonder, what of significance, exactly did you add? Talk about a troll...

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Some people have no sense of humour??

It'llrun

This is true, indeed. However, you didn't say anything funny.