TriShield

Like I said, objectivity.

ThisBlood147

You did that for me:

Making subjective observations and then passing them off as facts. I may want to see GM move the Corvette more upstream, but I'm not about to call it a POS in any sense. And I have spent time in both a GT and C6....and find your observations to be nothing more than exaggerated opinion. Something I can (and do) disagree with, but certainly not argue with......since it has little to do with actual facts. The only fact I dispute is that you are NOT a GM fanboy. You are. Just accept it. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Nothing you have posted in this thread about Corvette is objective fact, other than sales figures. Your reasoning in this thread is purely your subjective opinion about the hows and whys, and about what you think Corvette should be vs. what it is.

Sorry man, but that's the truth. Nobody ever said that we don't all have a right to our opinions here (we do....except Irunelevens, because he's always wrong.... j/k), but you are weighing things on your own personal scale and then trying to introduce the subjective results as objective facts.

I know first hand what it's like to have an unpopular opinion in this section, but hiding behind claims of objectivity to support a subjective position won't change the fact that it's still just your opinion.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

None of this makes me a fanboy, GM or otherwise.

Nor does anything I said in your example excerpt entail me passing subjective observations as facts. I presented them as opinion and nothing more. You can certainly disagree with me, I fully respect that, but calling me a fanboy does nothing to improve your argument.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

I'm pretty sure everyone here can tell you are a GM fanboy, there is no sense in hiding it. Saying the Porsche interior sucks, the GT is a POS, and that the Corvette is hands down better than two cars it's neck and neck with, makes it pretty damn clear.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

You simply have "biased" and "fanboy" confused. The former I certainly am, the latter I definitely am not. I'm not NEAR crazy enough for fanboy.

Besides, the example you gave about the corvette being neck and neck with the GT and Viper is doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. You are presenting a subjective evaluation (the cars being "neck and neck") as fact.

So I guess this makes you a fanboy by your own definition.

chaman

iTrader: (5)

Hit. The nail. In the head.

You love to throw the "fanboy" to anyone and everyone that disagrees or has a different opinion, when in the end you are the biggest fanboy in this thread and quite possibly this whole damn website.

Porsche's interior inferior to those of a Vette?? For the love of God, how much proof you need to see just how much of a fanboy YOU truly are.

chaman

iTrader: (5)

Your trying too hard....another obvious fanboy characteristic.

TriShield

Facts - it's a poorly assembled car, it's made out of very chintzy materials you'd expect to find in a Cobalt and not GM's flagship sports car, and it has the worst seats and steering wheel of any sports car on the market.

Styling is subjective and a matter of opinion, I never said it wasn't. But I don't think you can really deny that the Corvette loses what presence it has parked next to something like the Camaro or a Viper or a Ford GT.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. I think even GM understands that at this point and will do something about it.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

Your fanboyness is strong. It is a FACT that they are neck and neck, they have very similar stats across the board with no real winner. How does saying that make me a fanboy at all?

I agree with you that it's built poorly compared to some and the seats/wheel are garbage for a sports car. I think they do that because a lot of people buying Vettes are old guys that don't want a really aggressive seat like the Viper has. A good idea would be to offer different seats and steering wheels, something I think they should already be doing.

But for styling I FULLY disagree that it doesn't stand out more than a SS Camaro. I would say a ZR1 and Viper are about the same, the Ford GT is in a totally different ballgame, and the SS is a good ways behind the Viper and ZR1.

chaman

iTrader: (5)

I mostly agree. IMO even a well preserved LS1 WS6 TA looks better, but of course that is truly subjective.

Lethal Z

On a 100K dollar ZR1 I can see your argument. For that kinda money yes, they could do a better job on the interior. The problem I have is when you throw a base model Corvette into that argument. The vettes claim to fame is its ability to offer supercar performance at a reasonable price. I think it accomplishes that and I for one would hate to see the vette loose that edge because somebody decided it needed a Ferrari Enzo interior.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

"Poorly assembled car"? Just because you don't like the seats or steering wheel doesn't mean the entire car is poorly assembled. And I have to disagree with material quality being comparable to a Cobalt. I think you should stick to Bentley, since anything less seems to equal a Cobalt in your eyes.

Also, as stated above, you can't hold a ~$50k C6 to the same standards as a ~$100k ZR1, so it's best to keep your complaints trim-level specific.

You have inferred, throughout this entire thread, that lagging Corvette sales are due to bland styling (styling that, by your definition, is "destroyed" by Camaro). You fail to give credit to any other (and more reasonable) explanations, and introduce your subjective opinion of styling as the primary reason.

Camaro is brand new. In 5 years, people won't pay it much attention, just like the '05 Mustang GT is now lost in the crowd. IMO, future popular opinion will likely not view a '10 Camaro SS as being any more attractive than a '10 Corvette.

Viper and Ford GT do not offer an entry-level base trim car that sells in the volume of Corvette, therefore their general image is far more rare and unique. If there was no base C6, and only the current ZR1 supercar roaming about to represent Corvette, it would likely demand equal attention as the Viper or GT.

GM would be foolish to go the route of Viper or GT with all trim levels of Corvette, sending the MSRP out of range for even more buyers. This will NOT help lagging sales at all.

Funny how you see the much lower production, higher priced Viper as an example to aspire to, yet even through Viper's demise, Corvette continues to soldier on.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

The Corvette is an American ICON. And that is a fact. If it dies I can't imagine the awful things that will happen here.

chaman

iTrader: (5)

Regards the assembly of the Corvette lets be real, guys, its not whats expected to a car in that price range. You get an awesome drivetrain though. Lets not forget the 'flying roofs" recall. GM has improved in their quality control and overall fitment but its still not what its supposed to be in a car like a Corvette.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

It is very subjective, and I personally prefer the C4 over the C6, minus the LT1 shortfalls lol. I think the main point here is not who's a fanboy and who's not, ALL of us (assuming you are here for domestic vehicles) like the corvette and want to see it do better and be better.

While the interior is far from terrible, I definitely could see it feeling like a cobalt, I've been in both. Leather/suede and some minor changes would entirely change that, either aftermarket, or factory. It's NOT a huge deal.

Now as far as exterior I did see a few things I didn't like, but they even affected the C4 I owned. For one, we need to fix that cheap looking rear end, stuff it with foam support or whatever, but you can push them in a good inch or two and they bounce when you thump them. It just doesn't exude a feeling of "sturdy".

The only other thing I didn't like is that they seemed to go with the "sharp" look like they did with the CTS-V but stopped half-way. I couldn't pinpoint what I'd improve but the base C6 doesn't have quite achieve the "If I brush against it I'll bleed" look. Where the Camaro/CTS-V do IMO

Drive train wise, tough to beat the ever evolving LS platform. BUT again, exterior/interior, very subjective. Even the base model is "better" than my '99 Formy or our cobalt, though, anyone I assume would agree, it looks too plastic.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I don't get obsessive about interiors like some here do; thus the lack of Enzo quality appointments isn't of paramount concern to me, nor would I be interested in paying Enzo-like price tags for such. Actually, Lethal Z already sumed this up well, so rather than continue to paraphrase I'll just quote his excellent reply:

You can offer interior upgrade options to whatever point you like, but be careful what you ask for when it comes to standard equippment, because not all perspective buyers want to pay more just for Bentley-like interior materials.

This entire debate began over a dispute as to why Corvette sales are lagging. I don't think that a more expensive standard interior (and thus a higher MSRP) is going to help that cause any. Nor do I think bland styling is to blame. Several of us have already outlined our opinions on the true reasons in this thread, so I'll save us all the time and not bother to re-type them. It's all there if anyone cares to read through it.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

I agree for the most part, I was just trying to reiterate that I didn't think there was any reason for everyone to flame one another. Yes things could be better, and as said, on the ZR1 I agree interior wise it seemed a bit underwhelming for the price/status point.

I also agree that higher prices won't help things either, and in current form, drop the price 10-15k on the base vette and it would sell like crazy. But yes, it's hard to sell anything moderately high priced that a man can't justify by telling the "Boss" it has 2 back seats lol!

And again I loved my C4 so I am obviously one of the guys that prefers bland, but I did prefer the interior over the newer models, the wrap around dash, cockpit style seating, and all controls being centered around the driver...it really was like a fighter jet without wings. It was still plastic, which I overlooked mainly because of the above. Man I miss that car.

Irunelevens

I'd rather buy an LT4 Vette than my mom's LS1 in a few years (and the C5 is the plan right now), and part of the reason is the interior. Not because it's nice, but because of exactly the opposite; To ME, the Vette has always been a bit of a street fighter, and the C4 Corvette embodies that to me. It's crass, uncomfortable, hot, has no room, etc. GM chose to move the Corvette upscale in an effort to make it more "world class." That was THEIR choice. And now they need to have an interior to match it.

Irunelevens

I should have just quoted this in the first place, but oh well. There is absolutely no way that the Corvette could be a $30-$35k car. Not possible. But I think that if they made the car smaller, it could be an even better $45k car. I don't think there is a person out there who would bitch about the Corvette losing 5-10 cu. ft. of cargo space, and that decrease in size could be a ~200lb drop. Which would be HUGE.