Camaro Chief Engineer says "You're Welcome" to Ford Mustang fans
#41
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As for this GM rep's comments: nothing but bad PR in the making. Let your product do the talking. Hardly anything good ever comes from talking **** without knowing what hand the competition is about to play. If the '13 GT500 does go out to the 'Ring and flat out embarrasses the ZL-1, what's going to be their damage control then? If it really is all about building a car that people will want to buy and enjoy for what it is and how it makes them feel, then what does it matter what it will run vs another car on a track a whole ocean away? Just shut up and let the cars do the talking GM.
All in all, I think it's in poor taste...and a bit arrogant...to put out lines like "you can thank us at GM, Mustang fans". Near as I can tell, Mustang fans owe no more to the Camaro than Camaro fans owe to the Mustang. I seem to recall that it was the Mustang that was born first, and that it was the success of the 05+ Mustangs that spurred GM into doing everything in its power to bring the Camaro back...retro themes and all. So let's call that one a draw, and stop using it as poorly conceived propaganda for a car that isn't even available yet.
Last edited by ThisBlood147; 11-20-2011 at 08:08 PM.
#42
ZL1s shouldn't have an issue with either type of racing.
It's precursor is the Cadillac CTS-V running a generation older magnetic ride, skinnier tires and the same powertrain with "only" 550hp and more weight. This is how it stacked up against the GT500.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW-qF_Xzjl4
It's precursor is the Cadillac CTS-V running a generation older magnetic ride, skinnier tires and the same powertrain with "only" 550hp and more weight. This is how it stacked up against the GT500.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW-qF_Xzjl4
...yah...an auto vs some guy that couldn't shift for crap...
...and the GT500 still posted a faster trap speed.
Now, I wonder how much faster it will be with an extra 100hp and launch control....
I think the response was warranted, but pathetic at the same time. Every trip level of the Camaro gets out performed by the corresponding trim level in the mustang. I also find it ironic how they brag that all of the track ready stuff is standard. I am sure there are plenty of people that wish they were all optional, and the car came in under 50k.
Last edited by nanokpsi; 11-20-2011 at 10:41 PM.
#43
I'm curious what kind of r-compound tires the PP and Track Pack will have.
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
#44
If anyone magazine races it's the new Camaro fans, I DD my 5.0 and have had no fewer than 7 "transformers" cower once they see the stupid 5.0 badge
Unbelievable...Camaro guys boasting about some track times you need a Ship and 3 weeks to get to....Obama needs to bailout some brains.... ***** too.
#45
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Jesus, I never once said I was stock, I'll absolutely murder the first one I see...the almighty LSX+a blower should be the end all be all....come on with it.
If anyone magazine races it's the new Camaro fans, I DD my 5.0 and have had no fewer than 7 "transformers" cower once they see the stupid 5.0 badge
Unbelievable...Camaro guys boasting about some track times you need a Ship and 3 weeks to get to....Obama needs to bailout some brains.... ***** too.
If anyone magazine races it's the new Camaro fans, I DD my 5.0 and have had no fewer than 7 "transformers" cower once they see the stupid 5.0 badge
Unbelievable...Camaro guys boasting about some track times you need a Ship and 3 weeks to get to....Obama needs to bailout some brains.... ***** too.
#47
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Looks like immaturity breeds more immaturity.
I don't see why everyone is getting their feathers ruffled. The ZL1 is going to be a great car for a lot of people, if someone desires a better performer they can buy a Corvette.
I don't see why everyone is getting their feathers ruffled. The ZL1 is going to be a great car for a lot of people, if someone desires a better performer they can buy a Corvette.
#48
Are you guys forgetting that GM has this thing called.... the Corvette, that is their king of sports car, they CAN make a faster and faster camaro like tuning companies like Hennessey and SLP, just add a bigger boost blower and get 700hp from it but GM can't and wont do it because then it'll become as fast as the Corvette then that would make buying a corvette useless, heck it's bad right now, so yea.... Just be happy you've gotta 580hp Camaro, which is 55k, you wanna step it up? Go buy a Z06 I know I'll still take a 06 Z06 any day over a 2012 ZL1 any day!
#49
Brilliant.
My 11 year old Z28 (also not stock, just like your car) will wipe the street with a bone stock Mustang GT 5.0...and that too is of course about as moot and irrelevant of a point as one can possibly try to make.
#50
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the 2011 zl1s i have seen for sale in limited edition (69 made) are pushing 750 hp.. but the only one ive found is in fl for a buck forty... no thanks but i would take it for a test drive tho
#51
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Tranny and diff cooler from factory. Very nice.
Doesn't anyone else think that this comparison is kinda like apples to oranges? One car with IRS, the other with a solid axle. About a 500 lb difference in weight. One is DOHC and the other is a pushrod motor, each has very different power bands. If these cars were any more different people probably wouldn't even be cross shopping between the two. As different as they are I'm surprised people even care that much to argue which is better overall (if that can even be determined).
Doesn't anyone else think that this comparison is kinda like apples to oranges? One car with IRS, the other with a solid axle. About a 500 lb difference in weight. One is DOHC and the other is a pushrod motor, each has very different power bands. If these cars were any more different people probably wouldn't even be cross shopping between the two. As different as they are I'm surprised people even care that much to argue which is better overall (if that can even be determined).
#52
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Jesus, I never once said I was stock, I'll absolutely murder the first one I see...the almighty LSX+a blower should be the end all be all....come on with it.
If anyone magazine races it's the new Camaro fans, I DD my 5.0 and have had no fewer than 7 "transformers" cower once they see the stupid 5.0 badge
Unbelievable...Camaro guys boasting about some track times you need a Ship and 3 weeks to get to....Obama needs to bailout some brains.... ***** too.
If anyone magazine races it's the new Camaro fans, I DD my 5.0 and have had no fewer than 7 "transformers" cower once they see the stupid 5.0 badge
Unbelievable...Camaro guys boasting about some track times you need a Ship and 3 weeks to get to....Obama needs to bailout some brains.... ***** too.
#55
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I had a 2010 SS and a 2012 gt now. I'm pretty sure the GT is faster, but I haven't had enough track time in it. It has better gears (3.73s), and I have a suspicion that it makes more to the wheels. Or are we comparing the GT500? I get confused because the term 5.0 is getting thrown around and the gt500 was a 5.4 right?
That said I wouldn't think I would have a chance against a blown 5th gen, let alone the zl1. No point in comparing the two really. As a matter of fact a one-owner ZL1 is on my short list for next car.
That said I wouldn't think I would have a chance against a blown 5th gen, let alone the zl1. No point in comparing the two really. As a matter of fact a one-owner ZL1 is on my short list for next car.
#56
Tranny and diff cooler from factory. Very nice.
Doesn't anyone else think that this comparison is kinda like apples to oranges? One car with IRS, the other with a solid axle. About a 500 lb difference in weight. One is DOHC and the other is a pushrod motor, each has very different power bands. If these cars were any more different people probably wouldn't even be cross shopping between the two. As different as they are I'm surprised people even care that much to argue which is better overall (if that can even be determined).
Doesn't anyone else think that this comparison is kinda like apples to oranges? One car with IRS, the other with a solid axle. About a 500 lb difference in weight. One is DOHC and the other is a pushrod motor, each has very different power bands. If these cars were any more different people probably wouldn't even be cross shopping between the two. As different as they are I'm surprised people even care that much to argue which is better overall (if that can even be determined).
Of course they will be cross shopped. While some people will be brand loyal, there are plenty of people that just want the better car from a performance standpoint, as long as pricing is similar. Some people just want the baddest pony car out there, regardless of who makes it.
I also doubt the powerbands will be much different. Both motors are large displacemnt v8s with posative displacement blowers.
#57
I had a 2010 SS and a 2012 gt now. I'm pretty sure the GT is faster, but I haven't had enough track time in it. It has better gears (3.73s), and I have a suspicion that it makes more to the wheels. Or are we comparing the GT500? I get confused because the term 5.0 is getting thrown around and the gt500 was a 5.4 right?
That said I wouldn't think I would have a chance against a blown 5th gen, let alone the zl1. No point in comparing the two really. As a matter of fact a one-owner ZL1 is on my short list for next car.
That said I wouldn't think I would have a chance against a blown 5th gen, let alone the zl1. No point in comparing the two really. As a matter of fact a one-owner ZL1 is on my short list for next car.
#58
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A lot of predetermined predictions and estimations about cars that haven't even hit the showroom floors yet. I love both cars and can't wait to see what they're made of, that doesn't mean you have to be a little school yard boy and bash on anything that can possibly be bashed on because of your brand-loyal shades that are blinders to anything else on the market that might match it's value. The engineer was just saying "Your welcome" to everyone, I mean, we have a camaro and mustang with around 600hp, and both hold their own on a twisty! Why all the complaining here now? I thought this was a decent forum where knowledgeable gearheads shared information...
#60