next gen camaro to debut 2015
04-23-2012, 04:02 AM
#61
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The new mustang update looks killer. Especially the tail light update, the current *** end on Mustangs is as bad or worse than the Camaros and that is saying a lot.
I also agree the Camaro needs at least a minor update. Also needs a little more to seperate the SS from the v6 IMO.
*** end needs major work.
I also agree the Camaro needs at least a minor update. Also needs a little more to seperate the SS from the v6 IMO.
*** end needs major work.
Ehh... Whats wrong with 5th gen tail lights?
I will agree with you on the Mustangs though
haha don't know if you've noticed but the 2013 tail lights are pretty much the same as 09-12. Just minus the reverse lights.
Although this conversion kit is pretty freaking bad ***!
& I don't know imo I think the ZL1 looks better then the 2013 GT500? Not saying the GT500 doesn't look good. But id prefer the ZL1. Still not a fan of the Mustang taillights. Only liked the 2005-09 style.
If a Mustang can weigh in the 35xx-36xx range I think a Camaro can. & I'm pretty sure it will since its moving platforms. Cadillac ATS weighs like 34xx lbs. Why can't the Camaro? & don't think GM will raise the price of the 6th gen because it weighs less then the previous generation? Haha 
04-23-2012, 06:38 AM
#62
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They look like a wicked "eyes" carving in a Halloween pumpkin!
Part of what's actually cool about the 2013 Mustang taillights is that they appear to be missing the reverse lights, but they're not. Since they used LED's, they've got both in the same package. Not many cars look that clean because basically all have separate reverse lights. I think it's very resourceful.
I like both individually, but since you added near identical angles side by side, I now think the Mustang looks much better.
If a Mustang can weigh in the 35xx-36xx range I think a Camaro can. & I'm pretty sure it will since its moving platforms. Cadillac ATS weighs like 34xx lbs. Why can't the Camaro? & don't think GM will raise the price of the 6th gen because it weighs less then the previous generation? Haha
No reason the Camaro can't weigh less, period. It need not cost more either. Since they're planning to start the ATS around 55k, a re-skin for Camaro won't cost much more. I can't say it would impress me to see a 55k starting price for the Camaro, however. Simply enough, GM can just add LESS stuff!
I will agree with you on the Mustangs though haha don't know if you've noticed but the 2013 tail lights are pretty much the same as 09-12. Just minus the reverse lights.
haha don't know if you've noticed but the 2013 tail lights are pretty much the same as 09-12. Just minus the reverse lights.
& I don't know imo I think the ZL1 looks better then the 2013 GT500? Not saying the GT500 doesn't look good. But id prefer the ZL1. Still not a fan of the Mustang taillights. Only liked the 2005-09 style.
If a Mustang can weigh in the 35xx-36xx range I think a Camaro can. & I'm pretty sure it will since its moving platforms. Cadillac ATS weighs like 34xx lbs. Why can't the Camaro? & don't think GM will raise the price of the 6th gen because it weighs less then the previous generation? Haha
04-23-2012, 07:39 AM
#63
No reason the Camaro can't weigh less, period. It need not cost more either. Since they're planning to start the ATS around 55k, a re-skin for Camaro won't cost much more. I can't say it would impress me to see a 55k starting price for the Camaro, however. Simply enough, GM can just add LESS stuff!
I don't see Camaro pricing changing much with the 6th Gen. A couple grand at most. The weight savings is coming from the newer chassis, not from carbon composite pieces. Adjusted for inflation, I see the 6th Gen SS Camaro starting around $35K.
04-23-2012, 10:09 AM
#64
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I don't see Camaro pricing changing much with the 6th Gen. A couple grand at most. The weight savings is coming from the newer chassis, not from carbon composite pieces. Adjusted for inflation, I see the 6th Gen SS Camaro starting around $35K.
The price doesn't have to go up, but it may. The whole reason I said it can lose weight and mentioned the ATS is... that's a smaller and lighter chassis. The idea that it won't cost much more was solely attributed to the body and what GM will spend on those initially. The car is expected to cost much less, considering it will likely get an interior that makes the ATS look like... a 30yr newer model. I expect updates, but not a move away from "cheapness" as has been written for ages with F-body's, etc.
04-23-2012, 10:30 AM
#65
A couple grand is a pretty high amount for most members here. It's notable when the version most of us would want starts at more than 32k. That small change would bring the 1SS into the 2SS range at current pricing.
The price doesn't have to go up, but it may. The whole reason I said it can lose weight and mentioned the ATS is... that's a smaller and lighter chassis. The idea that it won't cost much more was solely attributed to the body and what GM will spend on those initially. The car is expected to cost much less, considering it will likely get an interior that makes the ATS look like... a 30yr newer model. I expect updates, but not a move away from "cheapness" as has been written for ages with F-body's, etc.
The price doesn't have to go up, but it may. The whole reason I said it can lose weight and mentioned the ATS is... that's a smaller and lighter chassis. The idea that it won't cost much more was solely attributed to the body and what GM will spend on those initially. The car is expected to cost much less, considering it will likely get an interior that makes the ATS look like... a 30yr newer model. I expect updates, but not a move away from "cheapness" as has been written for ages with F-body's, etc.
04-23-2012, 12:35 PM
#66
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I'm just saying, adjusted for inflation. People raged with the 1SS started at $30K, but adjusted for inflation it was on par with a 4G SS. We've printed too much money lately, and the price of everything is going up. Maybe there will be some cost savings by using this chassis for a broad lineup, but my bet is $33-35K for the 6th Gen due to inflation alone. And I agree, that will suck.
The good thing is, I think sharing the ATS-V(just for you
) chassis will allow for a lower price than if the Camaro were getting its own and it will surely be better once the bugs are worked out, than the current design, absolutely being lighter and hopefully less wind resistant.
04-23-2012, 02:30 PM
#67
No reason the Camaro can't weigh less, period. It need not cost more either. Since they're planning to start the ATS around 55k, a re-skin for Camaro won't cost much more. I can't say it would impress me to see a 55k starting price for the Camaro, however. Simply enough, GM can just add LESS stuff!
The 6th gen should be starting out on a smaller lighter chassis, lwhich would have less need for light materials to make an acceptable weight.
04-23-2012, 02:42 PM
#68
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The 6th gen should be starting out on a smaller lighter chassis, lwhich would have less need for light materials to make an acceptable weight.
04-23-2012, 02:44 PM
#69
Nothing is wrong with the tail lights (especially with the filler panel painted black and a proper center mount SS emblem), its the bulkiness below them and the huge cheap looking POS plastic lower valance that looks like ****. Along with the narrow looking tires compared to the huge *** end and the awkward way the roof pillars come down to the trunk. The 5th gen looks great from the front and side, but the rear is a big bundle of disappointment.
04-24-2012, 02:00 AM
#72
The Mustang line comes close (ie: lighter weight but still at a decent price) but they're really not all that light either (especially the GT500s and/or the convertibles), they just happen to be overall lighter than the Camaro line which is overall lighter than the Challenger line.
I too am looking forward to a lighter Camaro in the future, be it based on the new ATS platform (which is most likely) or even something else.
04-24-2012, 10:40 PM
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04-26-2012, 11:43 AM
#76
Considering that the structure of the car has to be built differently to accomodate each setup properly a direct comparison is difficult. SVT had to do a lot of structural work to mount the 2003 Cobra IRS. It is difficult to say as you would have to combare similar sized housings. I would seriously doubt the difference would be 100 lbs. I would even bet that is not that high.
05-02-2012, 06:21 PM
#79
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That last sentance is just your opinion. I'm probably more enthusiastic about and content with my 4th gens than the majority of people on this site. I've owned 4 of them; 2 of which I bought brand new, 2 of which I still have and 1 of which will probably stay with me until I die. Some have been raced and modded, some have been daily drivers, and some have been show cars. Every single one was an auto, and I WANTED it that way. NONE were impluse buys. The only "luxury" option (if you want to call it that) that has ever interested me in a performance car is an auto; this is based on my location and the sort of driving/racing that interests me. To infer that people who like autos can't be or aren't enthusiasts is just plain silly. Let's skip the A4 vs M6 war, because we all know that it's a pointless debate and not welcome here, and that just as many manual owners are fickle and will bounce from one car to another as auto owners.
Anyway, I drove a 5th gen just as soon as my local dealer had one back in 2009, and then I drove a second one many months later. I really wanted to love the car, but it just didn't happen. I've bought several brand new cars from GM (including a Camaro and a Trans Am) over the years, so I am someone that could have been sold on a new Camaro if I had just liked it more. I was more impressed in 1999 with the brand new Z28 that I drove than I was in 2009 with the brand new 5th gen that I drove; this was due mostly to styling and seating position - both a matter of personal preference. The L99 was also a let-down, I probably would have had a more favorable opinion if I could have had an LS3/A6 combo.
It's always possibile that I might end up with a 5th gen one day as a driver (only because I can't buy a brand new 4th gen any more), but I'll never care for it like I have my 4th gens.
Anyway, I drove a 5th gen just as soon as my local dealer had one back in 2009, and then I drove a second one many months later. I really wanted to love the car, but it just didn't happen. I've bought several brand new cars from GM (including a Camaro and a Trans Am) over the years, so I am someone that could have been sold on a new Camaro if I had just liked it more. I was more impressed in 1999 with the brand new Z28 that I drove than I was in 2009 with the brand new 5th gen that I drove; this was due mostly to styling and seating position - both a matter of personal preference. The L99 was also a let-down, I probably would have had a more favorable opinion if I could have had an LS3/A6 combo.
It's always possibile that I might end up with a 5th gen one day as a driver (only because I can't buy a brand new 4th gen any more), but I'll never care for it like I have my 4th gens.
You have your opinion. I have mine. Neither is right. And while the purchase of my WS6 was a impulse it was a impulse because I wasn't really looking all that hard and I found a good deal. Not because it had the wrong transmission in it. While I would argue that you have more control over a manual than a auto some could care less. The increase in fuel mileage is a added benefit to swapping your own gears though. Not that it alone is a deal breaker. I never meant were to imply that simply owning a auto alone equaled a non-enthusiast. Guess it depends on what you do with the car. If all you care about it how fast the 1/4 mile goes by then I guess it doesn't matter. But if you're out on a twisty two lane road, I would rather pick the gear not a computer that doesn't see what I see ahead. For cruising the a4 is great. I just said that were I to do it again, I would get a stick.
And I have driven a 5th gen too. I wasn't impressed at all. It felt heavy to me like driving a charger or challenger. Its well planted but doesn't translate to "throw me into a corner" to me. Then again, I find Miata's way to twitchy too.
05-02-2012, 11:17 PM
#80
Considering that the structure of the car has to be built differently to accomodate each setup properly a direct comparison is difficult. SVT had to do a lot of structural work to mount the 2003 Cobra IRS. It is difficult to say as you would have to combare similar sized housings. I would seriously doubt the difference would be 100 lbs. I would even bet that is not that high.
150-250 pounds depending on options that alone would bring down the weight but the you might lose some ride quality.