jan. sales for camaro, mustang and challenger
02-06-2012, 09:08 PM
#41
no i am not kidding. you are right the LS3 is hella more powerful 426hp>412hp all day long
wake up dude. LS3 is 1.2L bigger and can only outpower the coyote by 14hp=weak sauce. just in case you dont remember, the coyote was hitting 10s a month after its release, and 9s a couple of months later, and 8s before the end of the first model year. i like GM just like any other person here, but i am not blind to the facts.
wake up dude. LS3 is 1.2L bigger and can only outpower the coyote by 14hp=weak sauce. just in case you dont remember, the coyote was hitting 10s a month after its release, and 9s a couple of months later, and 8s before the end of the first model year. i like GM just like any other person here, but i am not blind to the facts.Aren't ricer arguments great?
Wait...no...they're not.
You're comparing two completely different kinds of motors. It isn't 1970 anymore, and displacement isn't the only thing that makes power. The fact of the matter is, if you're talking strictly between the two engines (NOT the camaro vs. mustang) The LS3 makes more power (even if you think it doesn't matter) AND it's lighter.
Also (not that I think it really matters, but I think it should be taken note of while we're on the subject) take a look at the air intake and exhaust manifolds on the new 5.0, it's pretty much got a CAI and shorty headers on it from the factory. The LS3's exhaust manifolds and air intake are garbage if I understand correctly.
02-06-2012, 09:32 PM
#42
Displacement is the only thing that matters in making horsepower?
The 5.0 is running 4 cams, 32 valves and more compression. I guess that doesnt mean a damn thing?
The two companies have chosen to go about making power in different ways. Both have pluses and minuses.
For max effort strip NA one would probably opt for the ls3. The 5.0 can only be taken to about 318 cubes. Heads and cam with stock bottom end the ls3 is showing about a 30hp advantage. This would only grow further if one were to stroke out the ls3 and the 5.0 is stuck at 318 cubes.
And yes it hit 10s in months after its release. Evolutions shop car with 500lbs removed. Congrats. LS1 cars have went 9's na years ago with extensive weight reduction. Hell...bolt on ls2's (vette vs stripped stang) that weigh more than that car have went 10's.
The 5.0 is running 4 cams, 32 valves and more compression. I guess that doesnt mean a damn thing?
The two companies have chosen to go about making power in different ways. Both have pluses and minuses.
For max effort strip NA one would probably opt for the ls3. The 5.0 can only be taken to about 318 cubes. Heads and cam with stock bottom end the ls3 is showing about a 30hp advantage. This would only grow further if one were to stroke out the ls3 and the 5.0 is stuck at 318 cubes.
And yes it hit 10s in months after its release. Evolutions shop car with 500lbs removed. Congrats. LS1 cars have went 9's na years ago with extensive weight reduction. Hell...bolt on ls2's (vette vs stripped stang) that weigh more than that car have went 10's.
02-06-2012, 10:31 PM
#43
blame GM for not going the same route. what i am trying to say is the LS3 is NOT superior to to a coyote motor, might be on par, but NOT superior...your last point about LS1s reminds me of that scene from Coming to America... "Der they go, Der they go!! Everytime we start talkin about boxing someone has to bring Rocky Marciano out der ***...Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to GEORGE LEWIS, HE AINT ****!"...
If less power and more weight is your thing, you're going to love the specs on the 5th gen SS's with automatics!
02-07-2012, 12:15 AM
#45
honestly i like the new 5.0 for its great straight line capabilities at a drag strip, however in the looks deparment i cant stand the front or rear end. The 2012 camaro is the better looking car to me, its to bad it dosnt tip the scales like the mustang does.
02-07-2012, 03:15 AM
#46
Or, blame Ford for not basing the DOHC 32V Coyote motor on their own 6.2L and one upping the LS3 in absolute power as well...this 'back and forth' stuff could go on all day LOL.
Just kidding of course, I am impressed by both motors.
02-07-2012, 07:51 AM
#48
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02-07-2012, 08:12 AM
#51
blame GM for not going the same route. what i am trying to say is the LS3 is NOT superior to to a coyote motor, might be on par, but NOT superior...your last point about LS1s reminds me of that scene from Coming to America... "Der they go, Der they go!! Everytime we start talkin about boxing someone has to bring Rocky Marciano out der ***...Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to GEORGE LEWIS, HE AINT ****!"...
Who is George Lewis? You mean Joe Louis?
02-07-2012, 08:29 AM
#52
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driving one of these cammers though......i mean c'mon. although ive not raced mine yet(only 900 and change on the clock), there's an automatic equipped one right down the street that went 12.53 right off of the car hauler. tune and drag radials, took it into the 11.5's. that's still with no bolt ons....unless drag radials are considered bolt ons.
these engines can be cranked up to stupidly high power levels for only 302's. as they come from the factory, they pull right off idle right up to redline.
i know the ls engines can do it too......it's two different ways of getting there......but ya can't say that the coyote's a crap engine. it's far from it.
02-07-2012, 09:01 AM
#53
Until i drove a coyote mustang, i felt the same. i felt that ford should've gone back to the OHV setup, keeping it simple, and powerful.
driving one of these cammers though......i mean c'mon. although ive not raced mine yet(only 900 and change on the clock), there's an automatic equipped one right down the street that went 12.53 right off of the car hauler. tune and drag radials, took it into the 11.5's. that's still with no bolt ons....unless drag radials are considered bolt ons.
these engines can be cranked up to stupidly high power levels for only 302's. as they come from the factory, they pull right off idle right up to redline.
i know the ls engines can do it too......it's two different ways of getting there......but ya can't say that the coyote's a crap engine. it's far from it.
driving one of these cammers though......i mean c'mon. although ive not raced mine yet(only 900 and change on the clock), there's an automatic equipped one right down the street that went 12.53 right off of the car hauler. tune and drag radials, took it into the 11.5's. that's still with no bolt ons....unless drag radials are considered bolt ons.
these engines can be cranked up to stupidly high power levels for only 302's. as they come from the factory, they pull right off idle right up to redline.
i know the ls engines can do it too......it's two different ways of getting there......but ya can't say that the coyote's a crap engine. it's far from it.
I have never heard of an 11.5 with just a tune and a tire. That would be the new world record and far from the norm. The best times I have been able to gather from a tune and tire is high 11's. Just seen one a guy was bragging about at 11.9 and this was at -1500 DA with tune and tire.
The 5.0 does benefit from just a tune more than an ls3 will though. It benfits greatly from a rev limiter raise in stock form as to where the ls3 will not.
Last edited by UltraZLS1; 02-07-2012 at 09:15 AM.
02-07-2012, 09:36 AM
#54
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I agree. Both are great. I have said it twice now. I have never once said the motor was crap. They just chose two different ways of getting their. Which I also said before.
I have never heard of an 11.5 with just a tune and a tire. That would be the new world record and far from the norm. The best times I have been able to gather from a tune and tire is high 11's. Just seen one a guy was bragging about at 11.9 and this was at -1500 DA with tune and tire.
The 5.0 does benefit from just a tune more than an ls3 will though. It benfits greatly from a rev limiter raise in stock form as to where the ls3 will not.
I have never heard of an 11.5 with just a tune and a tire. That would be the new world record and far from the norm. The best times I have been able to gather from a tune and tire is high 11's. Just seen one a guy was bragging about at 11.9 and this was at -1500 DA with tune and tire.
The 5.0 does benefit from just a tune more than an ls3 will though. It benfits greatly from a rev limiter raise in stock form as to where the ls3 will not.
i'll talk to the service manager down there, see if i can get a copy of his timeslip.
me? i won't be tuning mine till warranty's gone.....and to be honest, if i drag race it, it will be on street tires till about the same time. i will however take it to run on road courses, and perhaps autocross a bit........
02-07-2012, 09:40 AM
#55
i didn't mean that you said they were crap. i just quoted your post is all. there's as many closed minded guys in here as there are in the ford forums that some like to pick on.
i'll talk to the service manager down there, see if i can get a copy of his timeslip.
me? i won't be tuning mine till warranty's gone.....and to be honest, if i drag race it, it will be on street tires till about the same time. i will however take it to run on road courses, and perhaps autocross a bit........
i'll talk to the service manager down there, see if i can get a copy of his timeslip.
me? i won't be tuning mine till warranty's gone.....and to be honest, if i drag race it, it will be on street tires till about the same time. i will however take it to run on road courses, and perhaps autocross a bit........
Ill be going to the strip as well...but I'll be running 20 inch 555'rs and a stock clutch. I am hoping to break into the 11's. I cant expect much more on the wheel and tire combo....and the stock clutch will burn up for sure if I am too hard on it.
02-07-2012, 09:51 AM
#56
no i am not kidding. you are right the LS3 is hella more powerful 426hp>412hp all day long wake up dude. LS3 is 1.2L bigger and can only outpower the coyote by 14hp=weak sauce. just in case you dont remember, the coyote was hitting 10s a month after its release, and 9s a couple of months later, and 8s before the end of the first model year. i like GM just like any other person here, but i am not blind to the facts.
wake up dude. LS3 is 1.2L bigger and can only outpower the coyote by 14hp=weak sauce. just in case you dont remember, the coyote was hitting 10s a month after its release, and 9s a couple of months later, and 8s before the end of the first model year. i like GM just like any other person here, but i am not blind to the facts.Both motors are great, but ford has the acutal drag advantage based off the car platform alone. 200lbs lighter with a live axle and non-drug dealer wheels equals a better 1/4 car 99 times out of 100. Unless you think a motor producing less hp and less tq can magically beat a stronger motor in the same car.
02-07-2012, 11:52 AM
#57
the 5.0 is a tough motor but some people act like the ls3 is a boat anchor I just dont get it. I like the platform of the lsx because how easy it is to work on ie. cam swaps and massive stroker kits. However for just a bolt on car maybe 5.0s have it. I think if it werent for the weight and irs it wouldnt be the case.
blame GM for not going the same route. what i am trying to say is the LS3 is NOT superior to to a coyote motor, might be on par, but NOT superior...your last point about LS1s reminds me of that scene from Coming to America... "Der they go, Der they go!! Everytime we start talkin about boxing someone has to bring Rocky Marciano out der ***...Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to GEORGE LEWIS, HE AINT ****!"...
Except the body the coyote is in has been around since 2005 vs the camaros 2010. So you have to give some credit to the actual car.
Both motors are great, but ford has the acutal drag advantage based off the car platform alone. 200lbs lighter with a live axle and non-drug dealer wheels equals a better 1/4 car 99 times out of 100. Unless you think a motor producing less hp and less tq can magically beat a stronger motor in the same car.
Both motors are great, but ford has the acutal drag advantage based off the car platform alone. 200lbs lighter with a live axle and non-drug dealer wheels equals a better 1/4 car 99 times out of 100. Unless you think a motor producing less hp and less tq can magically beat a stronger motor in the same car.
02-07-2012, 12:26 PM
#58
I agree that a stock 5th gen with a 6spd is faster than a stock fbody I mean thats not really any new news. But a stock m6 ls1 car will trap 107-108 in good da and a 5th gen m6 will trap around 110 from what I've seen. A 2mph trap difference isnt HUGE and can easily be made up for with a catback and lid, so I think thats where people come in and say stock for stock its close with an edge to the 5th gen but with a couple simple mods the 4th gen gets it back, and I completely agree with that.However the 5th gens stock with autos are SLOW no matter how you spin it lol.
This I'm tired of hearing how great the coyote is and no love for the ls3. It makes the same if not more hp not to mention torque and it doesnt really get recognized. No one takes into account that a loaded 5th gen with a driver is around 4k while a stang is around 3700. No excuses there intended just the facts.
Why would I blame gm for not going the same route? for the last 15 years no modular ford N/A could compete with an ls for power and cost. Now they finally have something that can and my hat is off to the the 5.0 is a great motor but at the end of the day, an ls will fit into anything, and I can teach a monkey to swap the cam and heads on one. DAMN GM for making that **** easy.
Lol not only did they sell stock and companies like Jag, Aston martin and land rover but they did take a government bailout. However it was processed by the federal borrowing window which, what do ya know doesnt get published in the media. The only way to see that 9 billion dollar check is to read the ford government contract and see the payment....
This I think the mustang is a better drag platform not because of the motor or looks but he fact it still uses a live axle, keeps the weight down, and maintains a good suspension. However chevy didnt go for that they went for a comfortable daily driver which is what MOST people want in a car. At the end of the day I like both cars.. If I was buying one today no doubt I would go with a 5.0. Not because I hate the ls3 and the camaro but because I could really give a crap about having a plush dd like the camaro. I would rather have the 5.0 for its live axle and lighter chassis.
This I'm tired of hearing how great the coyote is and no love for the ls3. It makes the same if not more hp not to mention torque and it doesnt really get recognized. No one takes into account that a loaded 5th gen with a driver is around 4k while a stang is around 3700. No excuses there intended just the facts.
Why would I blame gm for not going the same route? for the last 15 years no modular ford N/A could compete with an ls for power and cost. Now they finally have something that can and my hat is off to the the 5.0 is a great motor but at the end of the day, an ls will fit into anything, and I can teach a monkey to swap the cam and heads on one. DAMN GM for making that **** easy.
Lol not only did they sell stock and companies like Jag, Aston martin and land rover but they did take a government bailout. However it was processed by the federal borrowing window which, what do ya know doesnt get published in the media. The only way to see that 9 billion dollar check is to read the ford government contract and see the payment....
This I think the mustang is a better drag platform not because of the motor or looks but he fact it still uses a live axle, keeps the weight down, and maintains a good suspension. However chevy didnt go for that they went for a comfortable daily driver which is what MOST people want in a car. At the end of the day I like both cars.. If I was buying one today no doubt I would go with a 5.0. Not because I hate the ls3 and the camaro but because I could really give a crap about having a plush dd like the camaro. I would rather have the 5.0 for its live axle and lighter chassis.
I wouldnt say the auto is a dog. A lot of them are hindered by being stuck in low octane mode and the stock tune and trans tune is weak. 12.8 is the best stock run in an L99. A tune only L99 will be equal to a stock ls3 for the most part. Compared to its 5.0 counterpart it is well behind though. They should have just stayed with the LS3 in the auto as well.
02-07-2012, 01:10 PM
#59
Lol...my bad..it is Joe Louis..