jan. sales for camaro, mustang and challenger
02-07-2012, 02:36 PM
#61
If your talking best case scenario and good DA (like you said) the 5th gen LS3 has hit 113mph stock traps that I know of. 110 is pretty much average and has been done in almost all mag reviews. 111-112 is fairly common for private owners also.
I wouldnt say the auto is a dog. A lot of them are hindered by being stuck in low octane mode and the stock tune and trans tune is weak. 12.8 is the best stock run in an L99. A tune only L99 will be equal to a stock ls3 for the most part. Compared to its 5.0 counterpart it is well behind though. They should have just stayed with the LS3 in the auto as well.
I wouldnt say the auto is a dog. A lot of them are hindered by being stuck in low octane mode and the stock tune and trans tune is weak. 12.8 is the best stock run in an L99. A tune only L99 will be equal to a stock ls3 for the most part. Compared to its 5.0 counterpart it is well behind though. They should have just stayed with the LS3 in the auto as well.
When i said the l99 is a dog I meant in stock form. I don't really count a tune as stock, once you tune the car and put a decent set of tires on it it will run well but straight from gm its a little sad
02-07-2012, 05:40 PM
#62
TECH Senior Member
wake up dude. LS3 is 1.2L bigger and can only outpower the coyote by 14hp=weak sauce. Repeat it with me : displacement is irrelevant, hp/l is ricer math.
Neither engines are anywhere near their peak, both are being held back purposely, GM CHOSE to go with their LSx design and 6.2L, they didn't "need" the displacement for that output, they CHOSE TO USE IT for the flat torque curve and power delivery (and there are NO downsides to it, so why not go with larger displacement from the same block?)
Which would you rather have, a lighter, smaller engine with more power, or a bigger, heavier engine with less power?
NO ONE is saying the Coyote engine is "bad", but to say stock for stock its better than the LS3 as a performance engine is simply wrong.
just in case you dont remember, the coyote was hitting 10s a month after its release, and 9s a couple of months later, and 8s before the end of the first model year.
i like GM just like any other person here, but i am not blind to the facts.
FACT: LS3 is lighter, smaller and more powerful.
Coyote is claimed to be around 440lbs (which is the same as the "big ole" 7L LS7), the LS3 is around 400-415lbs.
02-07-2012, 06:36 PM
#63
I'm glad it's been mentioned. A car couldn't give two ***** if it's engine was 1.2 liters or 12 liters, all it cares about is where the power is being made and how much weight it's hauling, the rest is irrelevant to performance.
That being said, the 5.0 is an awesome motor, I'm extremely impressed with my friends new F150.....but I'd still rather take the LS3.
That being said, the 5.0 is an awesome motor, I'm extremely impressed with my friends new F150.....but I'd still rather take the LS3.
02-08-2012, 04:18 PM
#66
driving one of these cammers though......i mean c'mon. although ive not raced mine yet(only 900 and change on the clock), there's an automatic equipped one right down the street that went 12.53 right off of the car hauler. tune and drag radials, took it into the 11.5's. that's still with no bolt ons....unless drag radials are considered bolt ons.
Bone stock means just that, bone stock (off the showroom floor).
And I know the new 5.0s are impressive as hell...but are you sure that they've hit 11.5s with just tuning and drag radials as the ONLY mods?
I'd heard of 11.9s and there was even rumor of one going 11.7s with just those mods but 11.5s?
Maybe with skinnies and seats removed as well perhaps?
* Edit *
I didn't see the below post before typing mine, I was saying basically the same thing as you are here.
I have never heard of an 11.5 with just a tune and a tire. That would be the new world record and far from the norm. The best times I have been able to gather from a tune and tire is high 11's. Just seen one a guy was bragging about at 11.9 and this was at -1500 DA with tune and tire.
Last edited by LS1LT1; 02-08-2012 at 04:26 PM.
02-08-2012, 04:32 PM
#67
See how it works, this can go on an on all day LOL.
They both have 'power making' advantages over the other, it's NOT just about cubic inches.
02-08-2012, 04:32 PM
#68
Douchebag On The Tree
02-08-2012, 04:42 PM
#69
Launching!
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And once again as noted earlier, the Coyote has ALL of those extra cams and ALL of those extra valves and still the closest it can come to a simple single cam motor with half the amount of valves is 14hp (less by the way)?
See how it works, this can go on an on all day LOL.
They both have 'power making' advantages over the other, it's NOT just about cubic inches.
See how it works, this can go on an on all day LOL.
They both have 'power making' advantages over the other, it's NOT just about cubic inches.
02-08-2012, 05:05 PM
#70
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Yes, drag radials (and tuning as well for that matter) are considered bolt on modifications, at least they have been in the LSx world for roughly 15 years now.
Bone stock means just that, bone stock (off the showroom floor).
And I know the new 5.0s are impressive as hell...but are you sure that they've hit 11.5s with just tuning and drag radials as the ONLY mods?
I'd heard of 11.9s and there was even rumor of one going 11.7s with just those mods but 11.5s?
Maybe with skinnies and seats removed as well perhaps?
* Edit *
I didn't see the below post before typing mine, I was saying basically the same thing as you are here.
Bone stock means just that, bone stock (off the showroom floor).
And I know the new 5.0s are impressive as hell...but are you sure that they've hit 11.5s with just tuning and drag radials as the ONLY mods?
I'd heard of 11.9s and there was even rumor of one going 11.7s with just those mods but 11.5s?
Maybe with skinnies and seats removed as well perhaps?
* Edit *
I didn't see the below post before typing mine, I was saying basically the same thing as you are here.
the 12/53 right off of the carrier, i can believe. i'm not sure about the rest. i don't have anything to compare it to, as i never ran my mustang without them....the one below that is.....i never tried, due to the fact that any launch over 3k rpm simply turned the tires into vapor and balled up rubber bits. i didn't tune that car so much as i changed the ecu with the maf and injectors.
i'll see if i can get a hold of the guy.
02-08-2012, 05:06 PM
#71
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And once again as noted earlier, the Coyote has ALL of those extra cams and ALL of those extra valves and still the closest it can come to a simple single cam motor with half the amount of valves is 14hp (less by the way)?
See how it works, this can go on an on all day LOL.
They both have 'power making' advantages over the other, it's NOT just about cubic inches.
See how it works, this can go on an on all day LOL.
They both have 'power making' advantages over the other, it's NOT just about cubic inches.
02-08-2012, 05:11 PM
#72
The cars are impressive.
True.
02-08-2012, 05:24 PM
#74
1QWIKZ is going to **** when he sees that the coyote motor is garbage by his own standards...but no worries! We found a great new motor for him to swap in!
Last edited by MasterTomos; 02-08-2012 at 05:39 PM.
02-08-2012, 08:27 PM
#75
Douchebag On The Tree
LMFAO...if that's the case, I don't think you have been taking your medication.
The F22C makes 240hp and is a 2.2L...the Coyote motor has over twice the displacement but doesn't even make twice the power...Whats up with that!? Shouldn't the 5.0 be making 545hp then? (109hp/liter?)
1QWIKZ is going to **** when he sees that the coyote motor is garbage by his own standards...but no worries! We found a great new motor for him to swap in!
The F22C makes 240hp and is a 2.2L...the Coyote motor has over twice the displacement but doesn't even make twice the power...Whats up with that!? Shouldn't the 5.0 be making 545hp then? (109hp/liter?)
1QWIKZ is going to **** when he sees that the coyote motor is garbage by his own standards...but no worries! We found a great new motor for him to swap in!
The first gen S2000 used the F20C which is 2.0L and still made the same 240hp. So it's obviously better in ricer math. Stupid Honda, switching to a worse engine with the F22C.
02-08-2012, 09:24 PM
#76
Wow, i see this has turned into a " dog pile on the rabbit" kinda thing. I am not on this site to be a cancer and i do understand all the loyalty to GM. But i was simply making a point that the coyote motor is not inferior to the LS3. I dont own a 5.0, but i do respect what they have accomplished in a very short span...that being said, carry on.
02-08-2012, 10:36 PM
#77
TECH Senior Member
I am not on this site to be a cancer and i do understand all the loyalty to GM. But i was simply making a point that the coyote motor is not inferior to the LS3.
Stock for stock the LS3 is a better performance engine, its lighter, smaller and more powerful. Whether its a 1L engine or a 10L engine is completely and totally irreverent, because it still smaller and lighter - things that actually matter in the real world.
02-08-2012, 10:44 PM
#78
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More like point and laugh at the butthurt mustang fanboy...
No "loyalty" in this discussion, just plain and simple facts.
Stock for stock the LS3 is a better performance engine, its lighter, smaller and more powerful. Whether its a 1L engine or a 10L engine is completely and totally irreverent, because it still smaller and lighter - things that actually matter in the real world.
No "loyalty" in this discussion, just plain and simple facts.
Stock for stock the LS3 is a better performance engine, its lighter, smaller and more powerful. Whether its a 1L engine or a 10L engine is completely and totally irreverent, because it still smaller and lighter - things that actually matter in the real world.
didn't think so.
02-08-2012, 10:47 PM
#79
Wow, i see this has turned into a " dog pile on the rabbit" kinda thing. I am not on this site to be a cancer and i do understand all the loyalty to GM. But i was simply making a point that the coyote motor is not inferior to the LS3. I dont own a 5.0, but i do respect what they have accomplished in a very short span...that being said, carry on.
If you simply would have said something like "The LS3 and the 5.0 Coyote are comparable motors" nobody (who knows what they're talking about anyway) would have said much about it or disagreed.
When you barge in and imply the LS3 isn't as impressive as the 5.0 because of displacement, you'll lose that argument before you begin because
a). You're wrong
b). There are obviously many GM fans here, and they'll tell you you're wrong and why you're wrong...NOT just because they're "loyalists"
Most times no, but it's not because of the motor itself, which is what we've been discussing most recently (5.0 vs. LS3, not a "Mustang with" a 5.0 v a "Camaro with" an LS3)
Does a Coyote 5.0 beat an LS3 Corvette?
Didn't think so...
See what I did there?
Last edited by MasterTomos; 02-08-2012 at 10:52 PM.
02-08-2012, 10:53 PM
#80
Douchebag On The Tree