Tainted

iTrader: (9)

You could always opt for a V also...

LEO

iTrader: (3)

Well said.

jmurray87

iTrader: (1)

Um, Which categories are you thinking of???

Thank you. Very well put but sorry to say most don't seem to understand that on here. People on here what C6ZO6 performance at the cost of 30k.

MI-Z/28

What I'd like is a Camaro that surpasses Boss 302 performance at a price competitive with the Boss 302 and SRT8 392 Challenger ($42-45k). I think GM can accomplish that by taking a base 1SS and adding the 1LE handling package with an LS7 under the hood. The parts are available. Make it happen and send the 5th gen out with a bang. I will buy it, no questions asked.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

Power to $ ratio. The 5th gen is just to heavy. I couldn't care less about what x car does around x course its irrelevant to me, if that's what you're insinuating.

I hope they do it, and redeem themselves for the ZL1. If they would just simply make the car lighter it wouldn't need an LS7 to keep up with the boss 302. The LS3 is sufficient at the right race weight.


Hope all the speculation about it being lighter really does happen.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

It doesnt need a ls7 to keep up with the boss 302 the stock ls3 does just fine around a road course and regardless of what anyone's personal prefrerance is those cars are made for the road course.

CamaroZ28_LS1

iTrader: (5)

This ^ new ATS is 3500 pounds which is decent. They need to make an ATS-V with 580hp....hmmm yeah.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

I already stated that about the LS3, the engine itself is great, the camaro's race weight on the other hand is not. the boss 302 is a good deal faster from factory, and the mod for mod margin grows even more. The 5th gen needs to be lighter. Period. If the guys at GM had a brain they would instead of making it heavier and adding a bit more power (ZL1) make the camaro lighter with the same engine.

Are you refering to the ZL1 or 5th Gens in general? To my understanding the regular SS was geared towards the every day gear head who wants a nice all around car, the ZL1 was obviously geared towards being more of a road course car, hence why it is nurburgring times were so blown up during its release.

justin455

I think he's referring to the fact that the 1LE in stock LS3 form is faster on a road course than a Boss. Weight is weight and one of the big disadvantages on the 5th gen, but if you can manage that weight better than your competition, you can negate that fact...just as the 1LE package does.

If you're talking straight line speed, yeah...the Boss is faster than an LS3 in either standard SS or 1LE form, but it definitely doesn't get worse from there mod for mod. If anything it's pretty damn even or in favor of the LS3 considering the larger and more established aftermarket. It gets even worse for the Boss if you compare dollars.

I'd love to see the 5th gen weigh less, but considering it doesn't, they're doing a damn good job of staying right with the Mustangs. Straight line speed is really the only steady performance advantage that the Mustang has in comparable models.

IMO it goes

CamaroV6<MustangV6<CamaroSS<Boss302<Boss302LS~Cama roSS1LE<CamaroZL1<GT500

And the biggest disparity there is only straight line speed on the last two. The ZL1 has already proven to keep pace with the GT500 on shorter tracks due to it's superior handling. The longer the straights, the worse it gets for the ZL1, but if you expect anything else with an ~80hp difference and extra weight then you just need a new hobby.

You want a cruiser? Pick your poison. (Either V6, GT, or SS)

You want a drag monster? Pick your poison. (Anything with a V8)

You want a road race beast? Pick a Boss, 1LE, or ZL1.

They're really ALL that good! Between the two models, they have pretty much anything and everything you could want and need in a performance car.

jmurray87

iTrader: (1)

^Pretty much sums it up.

Each model either Mustang or Camaro have something that is better then the other and for the prices of these cars they are REAL good buys.

The current Camaro and Mustang are FAR better then what they use to be aka all previous generations IMO in terms of handling and over all quality.

justin455

As far as the topic of the thread goes, I doubt there will be an LS7 5th gen. It would be pretty sweet to see basically a 1LE, with weight saving options, and an LS7...but there's really no room for it be profitable or sell in a decent quantity.

The car would destroy the competition the regular 1LE already has handled while it would only nips at the toes of the ZL1 and GT500 for probably the same MSRP. This considering the LS7 is hand built and has all the extra racing goodies on it like the dry sump oiling system. So basically it would be another Camaro that fits in between the performance ranks of two other Camaros...there's just no need. There's no Mustang for it to take on.

If it ever does get built it will be in very low numbers, sold at a premium where only the likes of Nascar loving millionaires can buy them, and they'll sit in a garage.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

I agree with everything you said, except this part right here.

There are stock boss's that have gone 115-116mph with just a tire swap. evangto on here went 117mph with an intake an x pipe and tune on a terrible pass from his words. Show me 1 5th gen that has gone that fast with an intake swap and an x pipe and tune. If we are talking internal mod, the LS3 hands down wins in that category from a dyno # stand point. If only it was lighter.

justin455

Yeah, even though the Mustangs are still faster stock, they're limited on their tire so swapping a tire will generally open up the gap wider on the two. However, I was meaning mod for mod as the usual bolt ons, cams, gears, etc. I believe the LS platform is still the king when it comes to cheap, easy mods adding the most power.

Basically I was saying that even though the 5th gen is a big bitch, after seeing how well they get the 1LE and ZL1 to handle better than the comparable Mustangs, they don't need to lose weight as you said.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

whatever a future camaro comes with dont expect a price drop.


as was mentioned people want 100k performance for 30k. not going to happen.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

Chevy has already stepped on their own toes for those who havent noticed. The $58,000 ZL1 out-powers the $85,000 Z06 by 80hp. I'm not saying it's a better car, but usually cars that break the "nothing is more powerful and cheaper than a corvette" rule get the axe, or aren't allowed in the first place.

People also need to realize that Chevy is unveiling the C7 on sunday, and will be a 2014 model available late this year. Something tells me that the C7 sales (which will probably be packing 480ish hp in the base model) won't be effected by the 5 year old camaro model with an engine from 2006 in it.

a 1LE LS7 M6 5th gen would make some GT500 and ZL1 owners butt-hurt on the daily I bet. That would be an awesome car to see!

The ZL1 has 585hp, and the LS7's made 505hp in the vette's, so an LS7 (Z28) won't be out-powering a ZL1. Also, with the added weight of the supercharger and suspension, the ZL1 has extra weight on it as well (which they minimized with carbon fiber and lightweight wheels/tires ect.) A Z28 with the carbon fiber ZL1 bits and wheels, along with the new FE4 2012+ suspension, and an LS7 without the weight of the LSA supercharger would be lighter and more agile than a ZL1 and one hell of a car!

1CAMWNDR

iTrader: (21)

I thought that one of the biggest reasons GM went to a Supercharged LS9 from the LS7 was that the LS7 would not be able to keep up with emissions regulations in the near future. There are not anymore LS7s in Corvettes, are there? That would be a very costly limited production capacity engine for a Camaro to try and fit between two other Camaros.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

I exaggerated but i mean making the car lighter makes it easier to get it faster. I agree with simplicity aswell. The pushrod lay out is super duper simple to work on and aswell cheap to mod, like you said. Atleast be 200lbs lighter and then we are talking, that would atleast match the mustangs race weight.

MI-Z/28

This has not been proven in a heads up, same day, same driver comparison. I also do not care about a single lap time. I'd like to know how the LS3 holds up compared to the Boss's forged and race ready 302 over the course of many laps. I have heard the LS3's are prone to oil issues on hard track days.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

Looking at it from a spec point of view, internally the forged 302 is far superior. I have also heard of this oiling issue and seen it first hand. My buddy tossed a couple rods from his LS3 H/C.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

Yep, the Z06's have had the Ls7 since 2006 and still have them. For 2013, Chevy released the widebody convertible "Corvette 427" as well, which as has the LS7.

ZR1=632hp LS9 Supercharged 6.2L
Z06=505hp LS7 N/A 7.0L