Irunelevens

Seriously? Weight, gearing, AERO-MOTHAFUCKING-DYNAMICS!! I can't believe you are seriously an engineering student. Are you a freshman?

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

Yea i am a freshman. I already knew about weight, gearing and areodynamics. But how is it the v6 trucks get better mpg than the v8 trucks when comparing equally trim levels meaning only difference is the engine all else the same.

If weight, aerodynamics and gearing is really the key factor then why does the ariel atom gets the same mpg than the vette? Both cars are geared for performance the atom weighs less and is more aerodynamic as well.

http://www.atomclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=9722.0

"With a feather-light curb weight of just 1 212 pounds, this 500-hp, V8-powered, limited-edition Atom doesn't have much to move when the accelerator hits the floor—though, to be fair to the rest of the pack, the Atom is more overgrown go-kart than daily driver."

http://m.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/ariel/atom-3/


So if the ariel atom is better than the vette in the 3 categories how come they both get roughly the same mpg?

The vette weighs alot more like the difference between a truck and vette. And yet the vette gets the same mpg as the atom.

It'llrun

MAC, it's like moving a plane through the air in a vertical downward motion vs moving a wall over ground, slightly downhill and that's only considering frontal mass. Differing gearing, different final drive, different transmissions altogether for that matter. The 6.2L appears to only be available in the truck if it's also a 4X4 crew or double cab.

The lightest pickup weight(full size) I'm aware of is 5100 lb and the Corvette isn't even in that area... Idonno what the new 'vette weighs, but I'm guessing 3300 or less in any case... 1,800 lb or more.

The Corvette has a 7 speed manual, with a hwy rating of 29mpg... The 6.2L 4X4 truck falls in around 20mpg. The 5.3L 2wd is 23... Considering things, the 4X4 is over 5400 lb, making it easily 2k more than Corvette and it's not available with a 7spd or a final drive as low as Corvette, or a top gear as high. This doesn't even get into consideration of the different engine specs, as the truck will have a cam more suited for towing and the Corvettes will be more for HAULIN'! The fuel systems probably have many differences as well, like fuel pump pressure, injector pressure, ECM tuning... it's a massively different setup.

These are truly night and day in terms of build design and I merely find it shocking the pickup is so close in economy rating!

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

I understand the massively different set up. The new C7 weighs around 3500lbs. I just thought it was odd the vette weighs more than double than the atom and yet still getting the same or very close to thw same mpg as the atom.

So if a person was to change the trans in a 2wd truck and have the gearing ratio to match the C7 do you think it would pick up some mpg?

Or is the weight and poor aerodynamics to overwhelming?

Irunelevens

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

You easily entertained? We all have to start college as a freshman....

Irunelevens

Right. But not all of us start multi-page arguments with people who have WAY more experience than them, and back up their (wrong) position with other people's opinions from Yahoo answers and Wikipedia. Just because you always say "IMO" after everything, doesn't mean we can't judge you for the stupid **** that you say.

It'llrun

That's for any of several reasons. The Atom probably has crazy low gearing compared to the Corvette and looking cool or not, it probably isn't as drag efficient.

It could be that it gets closer, but all that mass may be too much for using the same gearing and if that's the case, the lower gearing would be required, as would sacrificing fuel economy.

I can assure you of this... GM is not just staring at their own products and wondering... They've done millions of tests on thousands of ideas, designs, setups... If there was a totally feasible way to raise the pickup economy to that of the Corvette, they'd ABSOLUTELY do it... The reality is, that would probably leap them into the #1 selling pickup in a hurry and they know it.

The F-150 is expected to have a max hwy economy of up to 29mpg for the 2015 MY. With that, you can BET that GM is looking at any avenue it has to get close, short of a total revamp of the engine lineup. I kinda wonder if they won't jump on the diesel bandwagon to offset sales dips. They'll only have about a yr to figure this out too, before the Ford settles it for them, based on its own durability. If it holds up, they're gonna have to do something drastic or take a huge hit in sales. If it doesn't, they'll be able to sit back laughing as they count the money from all their sales.

Ease up... He's inquisitive and there's nothin' wrong with asking what we don't know, eh? He could be like one of our resident others, after all.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

I actually built one yesterday. Tradesman Quad Cab 4x4. All the trailering goodies, cloth seats, CD, carpet delete. Came in a shade over $37K, before and discounts, tradein, and such. As you can see I am not much the option hound. My only concern for the new GM Mid size twins is that they will be within shouting distance of a full size truck once you get the diesel in them. Why buy a smaller truck at similar money with less capability. I was disapointed that the Cruze diesel is a full option model. A 1LT manual transmission car would have been my cup of tea.

It'llrun

I've driven so many miles with manual trans diesels, I have no use for it anymore. I looked at the CRUZE too, but I got a poor salesman who knew less about it that I did. After that, I decided the only diesel car option for me would be VW and I didn't bother because they're much the same... want diesel, get all the extras, then the price is just stupid. I'm not too happy to find out the new FOCUS has stepped up its game this yr either... Still less than I spend, same available stuff... including at least 1 of the 2 smaller(2.5 or 1.6L) turbocharged DI 4cyl gas burners. Well, so I read... I would rather have spent 25k or less instead of 30.

You built the Tradesman... That one isn't available with the 3L diesel, according to the website(for me, anyway) and the least expensive that is and is also a Quadcab 4X4 has a starting price is 37.7k here. That's also the least expensive Quad w/ 4X4. I chose a spray in liner and rear view camera and pretty much what you did... $43,235.00 total before TTT. I'm not sure I feel a V6 pickup is worthy of those bucks. I'd like to see a smarter build... standard cab long bed, for example. I couldn't make it build that for me with a diesel either.

Irunelevens

Have you seen the **** he gets himself into? I wouldn't blink an eye if it was just inquisitiveness, but he's also arrogant and stubborn. He's like Doug (Hio), but really with no experience.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Tried it again. this is what I got.

RAM 1500 TRADESMAN QUAD CAB® 4X4 6'4" BOX
Show What's Included
Show Standard Features
Model HighLightsKey FeaturesAdditional Key Features730-Amp Maintenance Free BatteryAnti-Lock 4-Wheel Disc BrakesElectronic Stability ControlAdvanced Multistage Front AirbagsSupplemental Front Seat-Mounted Side AirbagsTinted Glass WindowsAir ConditioningSentry Key® Theft Deterrent SystemVariable Intermittent Windshield WipersPower Accessory DelayAutomatic HeadlampsSpeed ControlPower Rack-and-Pinion SteeringFront Heavy Duty Shock AbsorbersRear Heavy Duty Shock AbsorbersTilt Steering ColumnClass IV Receiver Hitch7 Pin Wiring HarnessTrailer Tow with 4-Pin Connector WiringLocking TailgateEngine/Transmission6-Speed Automatic TransmissionElectric Shift-On-The-Fly Transfer Case3.55 Rear Axle RatioMultimedia6 SpeakersAudio Jack Input for Mobile Devices12-Volt Auxiliary Power OutletSeatingHeavy Duty Vinyl 40 / 20 / 40 Split Bench SeatManual Adjust SeatsWheels/TiresP265/70R17 BSW All Season TiresGoodyear® Brand TiresFull Size Spare TireTire Carrier WinchEPA est. MPG18 city/25 hwyInterior & ExteriorAdditional Features"4X4" Badge "Ram 1500" Badge 12-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet 120-MPH Primary Speedometer 17-Inch Steel Spare Wheel 180-Amp Alternator 26-Gallon Fuel Tank 4-Spoke Steering Wheel 40 / 20 / 40 Split Bench Seat 7 Pin Wiring Harness 730-Amp Maintenance Free Battery Active Grille Shutters Anti-Lock 4-Wheel Disc Brakes Audio Jack Input for Mobile Devices Automatic Headlamps Auxiliary Transmission Oil Cooler Base Door Trim Panel Black Door Handles Black Front Bumper Black Grille Black Instrument Panel Accent Black Rear Bumper Black Vinyl Floor Covering Body-Color Fuel Filler Door Cargo and Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp Class IV Receiver Hitch Conventional Differential Front Axle Conventional Differential Rear Axle Dash Liner Insulation Door Parts Module Driver / Passenger Assist Handles Dual Note Electric Horns Electric Shift-On-The-Fly Transfer Case Electronic Shift Electronic Stability Control Electronic Vehicle Information Center Engine Oil Cooler Exterior Mirrors with Heating Element Floor Tunnel Insulation Front Armrest with Three Cup Holders Front Bumper Sight Shields Front End Parts Module Front Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers Front License Plate Bracket Front Passenger Seat Belt Alert Front Stabilizer Bar Front Wheel Spats Full Size Spare Tire Gray Upper Fascia Halogen Quad Headlamps Height-Adjustable Front Shoulder Belts Incandescent Tail Lamps Instrument Cluster with Display Screen Instrument Panel Parts Module Locking Tailgate No Lumbar Adjust Non-Adjustable Pedals Pickup Box Power Accessory Delay Power Rack-and-Pinion Steering Ram's Head Badge Rear Dome Lamp Rear Fixed Window Rear Folding Seat Rear Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers Rear Stabilizer Bar Rear Under Seat Storage Compartment Rear Wheel Spats Rear Wheel Well Liners by Mopar® Rearview Day / Night Mirror Remote USB Port Rotary Shifter Seat Parts Module Sentry Key® Theft Deterrent System Speed Control Spray-In Bedliner Tilt Steering Column Tire and Wheel Parts Module Tire Pressure Monitoring Display Trailer Tow with 4-Pin Connector Wiring Uconnect® 3.0 AM/FM Variable Intermittent Windshield Wipers Climate Control OptionsAir Conditioning Exterior Paint ProceduresMonotone Paint GlassTinted Glass Windows Tinted Windshield Glass GVWR PackagesGVW Rating - 6,800 Pounds MirrorsBlack Exterior Mirrors Power Heated Mirrors with Manual Fold-Away Sound System ComponentsFixed Long Mast Antenna Media Hub (USB, Audio Jack) Speaker Systems6 Speakers TiresGoodyear® Brand Tires P265/70R17 BSW All Season Tires Wheels17-Inch x 7.0-Inch Steel Wheels Center Hub PerformanceEngine3.6-Liter V6 24-Valve VVT Engine Transmission8-Speed TorqueFlite Auto Trans 845RE Safety & SecurityConvenience/Security OptionsAdvanced Multistage Front Airbags Manual Adjust Seats Power Door Locks Power Front Windows w/ 1-Touch Up and Down Feature Supplemental Front Seat-Mounted Side Airbags Supplemental Side-Curtain Airbags Supplemental Side-Curtain Front and Rear Airbags Dimensions & CapacitiesExterior DimensionsCargo Area - Bed Height:20.1 Cargo Area - Bed Length:76.3 Cargo Area - Bed Width Wall:66.4 Cargo Area - Bed Width Wheel:51.0 Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Approach Angle:17.8 Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Breakover Angle:20.5 Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Departure Angle:25.4 Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Running Ground Clearance:8.6 Overall Body Width:79.4 Overall Height:77.7 Overall Length:229.0 Overhang - Front:40.0 Overhang - Rear:48.4 Track - Front:68.2 Track - Rear:67.5 Turning Diameter - curb-to-curb - Left:45.4 Turning Diameter - curb-to-curb - Right:45.4 Wheelbase:140.5 Interior DimensionsCargo Capacity:57.5 Head Room - Front:41.0 Head Room - Rear:39.7 Hip Room - Front:63.2 Hip Room - Rear:62.9 Leg Room - Front:41.0 Leg Room - Rear:34.7 Passenger Interior Volume:116.6 Seating Capacity - Maximum Seating:6 Seating Capacity - Standard Seating:5 Shoulder Room - Front:66.0 Shoulder Room - Rear:65.7 Capacities/WeightsBase Curb Weight - Automatic Trans:5226 Base Curb Weight - Manual Trans:Not Applicable Capacity/Weights - Fuel Tank Capacity:26.0 Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - Maximum:6800 Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - Standard:6800 Payload Capacity - Standard:1570 Towing Capacity - Maximum:10200 Towing Capacity - Standard:5950 BasicsBrakes - Frontisc Brakes - Rearisc Driveline Configuration:4WD-PT EPA ClassificationUSTD4WD Maximum Number of Doors:4 Steering:Rack & Pinion Suspension - Front:Ind Suspension - Rear:5-Link Tires - Aspect Ratio:70 Tires - Construction:R Tires - Spare Tire Type:Full Size Tires - Type Tires - Wheel Diameter:17.0 Tires - Width:265 Tops - Standard Top:HF Vehicle Typeickup Truck MobilityBody Opening Width :34.0 Open Door Angle:65 Open Door Trim to Body:25.1 Seat Cushion Height from Ground:37.8 Seat Cushion to Rocker Panel:7.9 Step-Out Height :-0.5" Step-Out Width:5.3 Step-Over Height from Ground:22.6 WarrantyBasic - Miles:36,000 Basic - Months:36 Gas Engine - Miles:36,000 Gas Engine - Months:36 Powertrain - Miles:100,000 Powertrain - Months:60 Roadside Assistance - Miles:100,000 Roadside Assistance - Months:60 Rust-Through - Miles:100,000 Rust-Through - Months:60
$32,515

Colors Edit

Black / Diesel Gray Interior Colors $0
Bright White Clear Coat Exterior Paint $0
$0

Options Edit

Uconnect® 3.0 AM/FM $0
17-Inch x 7.0-Inch Steel Wheels $0
P265/70R17 BSW All Season Tires $0
8-Speed TorqueFlite Auto Trans 8HP70 $500
3.0-Liter V6 Turbo Diesel Engine $4,000
Popular Equipment Group $645
Delete Carpet $0
Single Disc Remote CD Player $195
Trailer Tow Mirror and Brake Control Group $410
$5,750

Payment Summary Edit

Buy Lease
Monthly Payments $502 -
MSRP* $32,515 -
Options Subtotal $5,750 -
Destination Charges $1,195 -
Down Payment -$5,919 (15%) -
Term Duration 72 months -
Annual Percentage Rate(APR) 4.04% -
Midwest Chrysler Capital 2014 Bonus Cash MWCE5 -500 -
Midwest BC Retail Consumer Cash 51CE1 -1000 -
Estimated Selling Price $32,041 -
Estimated Capitalized Costs - -

It'llrun

Oooohhh... Well, I hadn't noticed that to any degree.
FINALLY! I was not getting the drop down boxes, so it was only showing me 4X4 and quad cab available on 3 models! Anyway, tonight they worked for all models and BLAME! I got about what you did, but I opted for a few more perks.

Irunelevens

The turbo Focus is a 2.0, btw. The Fiesta ST is a turbo 1.6.

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

I'd be interested in a Ford/Chevy/Dodge 1/2 ton diesel, will not purchase a Toyota ever, wonder if they fixed the frame issue on the tundra so it doesn't fold up like an accordion.

Irunelevens

Wasn't it the 90s Tacomas that had that problem in areas that used salt on their roads?

It'llrun

Idonno about frame concerns, but pretty much everything except a frame on any vehicle these days is specifically designed to fold up in the case of a significant impact.

Yeah, I know. I've driven both. The Focus ST engine is the same as in my Escape, perhaps with different cams, but I think those are even the same. It was first used (in America) in the Fusion and Escape for 2013 models.

I was sure I'd said that some time back in a similar discussion... anyway, did I say otherwise here? I know I looked at a recent "test" by R&T or whichever and they dyno'd the ST... and the Fiesta ST on the same damned page! Pissed me off because there was no warning and they started talking about the 197hp rating and I was like, "WHAT?" The Fiesta did well in terms of repeatability and made around 180whp while the Focus made nearly 250whp, but needed higher octane than 91 as it was pinging. They called off the test early with that one, as it was done in CA and they're not allowed to have good fuel for road use.

OH! I read a little from before... Okay, some are now saying the Focus NON ST is about to have the turbo engines as standard... just not the 2L, so I expect the 1.6L or the 1.5L or both... OR the latest rendition in 3cyl power, the 1L and it's not my cup of tea for that engine, but I've read about that from Ford itself and they claim it's nearly as good as the 1.5L and the one used in Titanium is rated at 123hp (standard is 99hp) and gets 56+ hwy mpg. That's kind of a big deal, for sure... but I prefer double that power or more as a starting point, but either you burn fuel or you burn more fuel, eh??

I think that's where it looks screwy. Supposedly, and I've only read this on one site(but a generally reliable one) that Ford has already dropped the non turbo engines in Europe and will follow suit by the end of 2014 in the states.

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

In the tundra's as well, doubt if they have corrected it as well. My wife had an 07 civic when we first got married, i've never been so underwhelmed by an overpriced commuter car.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

I drove a friends Corolla for about a half hour one time. I do not see what the fascination is. From a pure driving perspective it is dull as hell, and nothing stood out. His family had a bunch of Toyots'a. Rode in them many times. Ride was never all that great, interiors were nothing special, and never saw what was so magical about them. Perhaps living with one is different, but nothing in my experience has made me want one.

Irunelevens

Gotta compare it to what else was available at the time. Corolla/Civic...or Focus/Escort/Cavalier. Toyota markets toward the incredibly vast majority of people who buy cars as appliances; they're simple, reliable, etc. Hondas are the same way, but have models which are targeted more to people that want a little more engagement.