Bob Lutz and Gary Cowger step down
04-06-2005, 09:55 AM
#21
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Misdirected hostility.
GM would be in even worse enthusiast shape without him around, and many of those decisions you cited weren't made by him.
There would be no GTO or Solstice period. The Monaro makes a fine GTO and it's GM's best car at the price. The only way the Solstice got approved was by spreading the costs, meaning the Europeans would get it too (and they couldn't produce it, so it becomes a Saturn). I'm glad they did it.
The Cobalt is an excellent car, it's shocking how good it is coming from the same company that brought us the Cavalier. The FWD Impala predated Lutz by many years, and I think the SS designation should be used on performance oriented Chevrolets. It's not the sole property of V8, RWD.
The G6 looks like the concept, except the interior which is too bad. It's still nice too see Pontiac's with clean styling instead of horrible body cladding, striped lenses, and totally garbage interiors. Apparently AWD will be offered later, but I get the feeling even if it was exciting to drive you all wouldn't care for it, kind of like the GTO.
The Firebird sold 25,000 copies in it's final year, including V6s. The V8 models sold in similar numbers to the 04 GTOs, so the market for Pontiac muscle cars doesn't seem to be very big. If they bring the Camaro back they will have to figure out a way to make it so it doesn't appeal to the lowest of the car buying public. It can't be a badly engineered, poorly made, cheaply trimmed, truck-sized car, I'm scared the improvement will be minimal if it comes back.
Lutz has been a huge assett to GM. GM is so set in their ways, and so big that things aren't going to change overnight company wide. Lutz probably can't make that happen like he did for Chrysler, Chrysler is a tiny operation in comparison. More of GM will have to wake up before it's too late.
I wouldn't say Ford knows what people want either, the Mustang has always been popular and it has always handily outsold both the F-bodies together. The rest of their new cars are floundering like GM's is, and they discontinued their new V8 program because they can't afford it.
If you love pony cars, then why are you brand loyal? Go buy the Mustang, go buy what you want now. I'm fond of Chrysler's Hemi cars myself, if the Monaro weren't available in this land I'd be driving one of those instead. Nobody said you can't come back later.
The thing that really disappoints me about GM is Zeta, that was their only hope of countering Chrysler and building truly American flavored cars again. It may prove to be their worst decision of all.
GM would be in even worse enthusiast shape without him around, and many of those decisions you cited weren't made by him.
There would be no GTO or Solstice period. The Monaro makes a fine GTO and it's GM's best car at the price. The only way the Solstice got approved was by spreading the costs, meaning the Europeans would get it too (and they couldn't produce it, so it becomes a Saturn). I'm glad they did it.
The Cobalt is an excellent car, it's shocking how good it is coming from the same company that brought us the Cavalier. The FWD Impala predated Lutz by many years, and I think the SS designation should be used on performance oriented Chevrolets. It's not the sole property of V8, RWD.
The G6 looks like the concept, except the interior which is too bad. It's still nice too see Pontiac's with clean styling instead of horrible body cladding, striped lenses, and totally garbage interiors. Apparently AWD will be offered later, but I get the feeling even if it was exciting to drive you all wouldn't care for it, kind of like the GTO.
The Firebird sold 25,000 copies in it's final year, including V6s. The V8 models sold in similar numbers to the 04 GTOs, so the market for Pontiac muscle cars doesn't seem to be very big. If they bring the Camaro back they will have to figure out a way to make it so it doesn't appeal to the lowest of the car buying public. It can't be a badly engineered, poorly made, cheaply trimmed, truck-sized car, I'm scared the improvement will be minimal if it comes back.
Lutz has been a huge assett to GM. GM is so set in their ways, and so big that things aren't going to change overnight company wide. Lutz probably can't make that happen like he did for Chrysler, Chrysler is a tiny operation in comparison. More of GM will have to wake up before it's too late.
I wouldn't say Ford knows what people want either, the Mustang has always been popular and it has always handily outsold both the F-bodies together. The rest of their new cars are floundering like GM's is, and they discontinued their new V8 program because they can't afford it.
If you love pony cars, then why are you brand loyal? Go buy the Mustang, go buy what you want now. I'm fond of Chrysler's Hemi cars myself, if the Monaro weren't available in this land I'd be driving one of those instead. Nobody said you can't come back later.
The thing that really disappoints me about GM is Zeta, that was their only hope of countering Chrysler and building truly American flavored cars again. It may prove to be their worst decision of all.
04-06-2005, 12:04 PM
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Misdirected compassion, more like.
So the FWD POS Imapala pre-dated him, fine, ax it and do it right or not at all.
SS is Super Sport. I don't like Chevys, but I do feel for the Chevy guys. And since FWD is mutually exclusive with Sport, the SS badge on an FWD is a travesty. Period. A great sig quote spotted on another forum - "It is commonly accepted that Power without Control is nothing. In that case, FF is even less as it has neither."
The G6 does NOT look like the concept.
Production car -
Concept -
The similarities are vague. The body is cut quite boringly on the production and coupled with very small wheels (by comparison).
Plus going FWD is a HUGE disappointment.
I would not buy one had they gone with AWD. No. Because it's a 4 door. But that's me. Picture that Concept with a nicely done hood scoop, maybe Camaro SS-like, a Supercharger, and a nice raised spoiler/wing and priced in the STi range. For the guys who like those cars, and don't care about something hideous like 4-doors, it would capture some of that market, easily. Plus in basic trim, take much of the Grand Prix/Tarus market.
If I ever needed a 4-door, right now, I'm forced to consider an STi (or a Magnum maybe), but if the G6 was like the Concept, I'd go with that in a heartbeat. And if they were to produce a 2-door model with a properly mounted engine (read - longitudinally), I'd consider that just to have, just because.
Giving Vauxhall a copy of the Solstice (which come to think of it, the Sky does have Vauxhall-like lines), doesn't require putting a Saturn badge on it, and selling it here. Nor does it require undercutting the Solstice.
And the Solstice is just "neat". It's not an F-Body replacement. It wouldn't be a travesty if it was never made. (unless the concept was put out and died. That would be a different story)
You are condescendingly dismissive in your tone and overall attitude. Sure, buy a Mustang. Why not? I've got an extra 20-some-odd grand lying around...I'll be right back. I'm still paying off my WS6. They need to expect a 5 year turn around time for repeat buyers. Even IF I did have my '02 WS6 paid off (2 more years), I wouldn't buy a Mustang. For the very same reason I didn't buy one in the first damn place. And why I didn't buy a Camaro. And why I didn't wait for a "GTO". NONE of them are Trans Ams. Get it?
Lutz wants me to buy a "GTO" in the same way you are suggesting I go to Ford. I like the new Mustang. I like the GTO (and having said that, it was STILL a mistake to call it a GTO). Bring back the Firebird and Trans Am, and I'll make future new car purchases. Otherwise, there are C2s, C3s, C4s, C5s, and 4 generations of Trans Am calling out to me. More than enough to keep me busy. And as we see from this thread - most of us here as well.
Currently, I have 2 cars. My 91 Grand Prix is my DD/beater. It could stand repacing. So - if GM was producing stuff worth really careing about (like the Firebird and AWD G6 Concept.....just for example), I would certainly consider a new GM product for DD duties. But, as long as they are doing what they are doing, **** it, I'll buy another used.
I could see myself with a new GP or AWG G6 if it were like the Concept, as primary DD, a Solstice for Summer DD, and my WS6 as a toy/track car, and a GTO as a road trip car.
However, in the present state of things (there), my plan is more like - a recent used Olds or Pontiac 2-door V6 (GP, Cutlass Supreme, Torronado, etc) as year round DD, my WS6 as toy/track car, a '70 (or earlier) Olds 98 Royale Convertible (< my first car, kinda miss it. lol) as road trip car, and a truck project vehicle for really bad snow. With all future car purchases being the afforementioned used sports cars for projects/toys because nothing new is really worthwhile, and GM isn't showing itself worthy of my money or support for new vehicles anymore. Not even the Corvette, my ALL TIME favorite car. Yes it's a great bit of kit, but it looks like a Camaro and is ugly.
It's rather impressive that V8 Firebirds sold about what the GTO did. The GTO was advertised. It was new. It had IRS. It had usable rear seats and trunk space (ie - practicality) It had every advantage going for it. The Firebird was not advertised. It hadn't changed much at all in 4 years, and not appreciably (for joe avg.) in 9. It also had a lot of consumer baggage working against it, unchallenged by marketing.
I say again - take the future Camaro, do the Firebird thing to it, offer it, make sure it's different from the GTO, and watch the numbers. Even without advertising, it'll match or exceed the GTO. With good marketing, it'll smoke it. Guarenteed.
It's not about "room in the market for V8 RWD Pontiacs". It's about trying to kill a car people do want, and replacing it with a car people don't want. It actually shows that there IS room for the Firebird. Regardless of the "GTO".
Since you'll already be producing the chassis and powertrain for the car, pressing out some composit body and interior panels for cars as ordered won't drive production costs up much at all. The end result will be a car that costs more than the Camaro. Ok...., so? They always did.
A "car guy" would know this.
Improvement minimal? What's left to improve? Partly rhetorical, there is always room for improvement, but they got it right with the LS1s. About the only bad thing is they were creeping up in price. Beyond that, they were perfect for their segment. Use an LS2 and IRS, maybe reduce costs with 4+ models on the platform, and bam! Even more perfect.
Truly American flavored cars again? You know that Zeta was designed and was to be produced entirely in Oz by Holden, right? So how is/would it be different from the Monaro?
Oh, and let's also touch on a point I had forgotten about previously here - Lutz said Pontiac is to move up-market and become the American BMW.
The "American BMW".....with the Vibe and the Aztek.... right.
Cadillac is the only division that could hope to be "the American BMW", and they are well on their way to that. Even though the GTO and Monaro have been dubbed a cut-rate 3-Series, there's more to it than just driver fun. You could, theoretically, build a 5-Series competitor and call it the Bonneville, sure. But trying to do so runs right into CTS-V territory. So unless Caddy has plans to move waaaaay up into Maybach operating space, you can't make Pontiac the same thing.
Bob has seemed to show a certain amount of schizophrenia. First Buick is to be the American Lexus, targetting young buyers with money, hence the Zeta. Then Pontiac is to be the American BMW, despite the obvious conflict with Caddy for market space, or the obvious conflict of product line with supposed intent (Aztek, Vibe, etc), OR the obvious conflict of divisional placement, BMW > Lexus. That puts Pontiac upmarket of Buick. Somehow, I doubt that being accepted within GM or by the public. Then Zeta is axed. So much for Buicks makeover. Meanwhile Caddy has been being reborn quite effectively, and is apparently forgotten about in these great schemes for Pontiac and Buick.
So the FWD POS Imapala pre-dated him, fine, ax it and do it right or not at all.
SS is Super Sport. I don't like Chevys, but I do feel for the Chevy guys. And since FWD is mutually exclusive with Sport, the SS badge on an FWD is a travesty. Period. A great sig quote spotted on another forum - "It is commonly accepted that Power without Control is nothing. In that case, FF is even less as it has neither."
The G6 does NOT look like the concept.
Production car -
Concept -
The similarities are vague. The body is cut quite boringly on the production and coupled with very small wheels (by comparison).
Plus going FWD is a HUGE disappointment.
I would not buy one had they gone with AWD. No. Because it's a 4 door. But that's me. Picture that Concept with a nicely done hood scoop, maybe Camaro SS-like, a Supercharger, and a nice raised spoiler/wing and priced in the STi range. For the guys who like those cars, and don't care about something hideous like 4-doors, it would capture some of that market, easily. Plus in basic trim, take much of the Grand Prix/Tarus market.
If I ever needed a 4-door, right now, I'm forced to consider an STi (or a Magnum maybe), but if the G6 was like the Concept, I'd go with that in a heartbeat. And if they were to produce a 2-door model with a properly mounted engine (read - longitudinally), I'd consider that just to have, just because.
Giving Vauxhall a copy of the Solstice (which come to think of it, the Sky does have Vauxhall-like lines), doesn't require putting a Saturn badge on it, and selling it here. Nor does it require undercutting the Solstice.
And the Solstice is just "neat". It's not an F-Body replacement. It wouldn't be a travesty if it was never made. (unless the concept was put out and died. That would be a different story)
You are condescendingly dismissive in your tone and overall attitude. Sure, buy a Mustang. Why not? I've got an extra 20-some-odd grand lying around...I'll be right back. I'm still paying off my WS6. They need to expect a 5 year turn around time for repeat buyers. Even IF I did have my '02 WS6 paid off (2 more years), I wouldn't buy a Mustang. For the very same reason I didn't buy one in the first damn place. And why I didn't buy a Camaro. And why I didn't wait for a "GTO". NONE of them are Trans Ams. Get it?
Lutz wants me to buy a "GTO" in the same way you are suggesting I go to Ford. I like the new Mustang. I like the GTO (and having said that, it was STILL a mistake to call it a GTO). Bring back the Firebird and Trans Am, and I'll make future new car purchases. Otherwise, there are C2s, C3s, C4s, C5s, and 4 generations of Trans Am calling out to me. More than enough to keep me busy. And as we see from this thread - most of us here as well.
Currently, I have 2 cars. My 91 Grand Prix is my DD/beater. It could stand repacing. So - if GM was producing stuff worth really careing about (like the Firebird and AWD G6 Concept.....just for example), I would certainly consider a new GM product for DD duties. But, as long as they are doing what they are doing, **** it, I'll buy another used.
I could see myself with a new GP or AWG G6 if it were like the Concept, as primary DD, a Solstice for Summer DD, and my WS6 as a toy/track car, and a GTO as a road trip car.
However, in the present state of things (there), my plan is more like - a recent used Olds or Pontiac 2-door V6 (GP, Cutlass Supreme, Torronado, etc) as year round DD, my WS6 as toy/track car, a '70 (or earlier) Olds 98 Royale Convertible (< my first car, kinda miss it. lol) as road trip car, and a truck project vehicle for really bad snow. With all future car purchases being the afforementioned used sports cars for projects/toys because nothing new is really worthwhile, and GM isn't showing itself worthy of my money or support for new vehicles anymore. Not even the Corvette, my ALL TIME favorite car. Yes it's a great bit of kit, but it looks like a Camaro and is ugly.
It's rather impressive that V8 Firebirds sold about what the GTO did. The GTO was advertised. It was new. It had IRS. It had usable rear seats and trunk space (ie - practicality) It had every advantage going for it. The Firebird was not advertised. It hadn't changed much at all in 4 years, and not appreciably (for joe avg.) in 9. It also had a lot of consumer baggage working against it, unchallenged by marketing.
I say again - take the future Camaro, do the Firebird thing to it, offer it, make sure it's different from the GTO, and watch the numbers. Even without advertising, it'll match or exceed the GTO. With good marketing, it'll smoke it. Guarenteed.
It's not about "room in the market for V8 RWD Pontiacs". It's about trying to kill a car people do want, and replacing it with a car people don't want. It actually shows that there IS room for the Firebird. Regardless of the "GTO".
Since you'll already be producing the chassis and powertrain for the car, pressing out some composit body and interior panels for cars as ordered won't drive production costs up much at all. The end result will be a car that costs more than the Camaro. Ok...., so? They always did.
A "car guy" would know this.
Improvement minimal? What's left to improve? Partly rhetorical, there is always room for improvement, but they got it right with the LS1s. About the only bad thing is they were creeping up in price. Beyond that, they were perfect for their segment. Use an LS2 and IRS, maybe reduce costs with 4+ models on the platform, and bam! Even more perfect.
The thing that really disappoints me about GM is Zeta, that was their only hope of countering Chrysler and building truly American flavored cars again. It may prove to be their worst decision of all.
Oh, and let's also touch on a point I had forgotten about previously here - Lutz said Pontiac is to move up-market and become the American BMW.
The "American BMW".....with the Vibe and the Aztek.... right.
Cadillac is the only division that could hope to be "the American BMW", and they are well on their way to that. Even though the GTO and Monaro have been dubbed a cut-rate 3-Series, there's more to it than just driver fun. You could, theoretically, build a 5-Series competitor and call it the Bonneville, sure. But trying to do so runs right into CTS-V territory. So unless Caddy has plans to move waaaaay up into Maybach operating space, you can't make Pontiac the same thing.
Bob has seemed to show a certain amount of schizophrenia. First Buick is to be the American Lexus, targetting young buyers with money, hence the Zeta. Then Pontiac is to be the American BMW, despite the obvious conflict with Caddy for market space, or the obvious conflict of product line with supposed intent (Aztek, Vibe, etc), OR the obvious conflict of divisional placement, BMW > Lexus. That puts Pontiac upmarket of Buick. Somehow, I doubt that being accepted within GM or by the public. Then Zeta is axed. So much for Buicks makeover. Meanwhile Caddy has been being reborn quite effectively, and is apparently forgotten about in these great schemes for Pontiac and Buick.
04-06-2005, 08:08 PM
#24
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Ummmm... the G6 is almost identical in looks to the concept. The concept featured a denali type punch out grill and fog lights. Whoopee. As for AWD, I had heard it was supposed to be out in the future.
04-06-2005, 09:23 PM
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The differences are stark when looking at the 2 of them. Perhaps I'm just a little more keen to them. :shrug: Fender shape, stance, rims, body lines, roof line, door sides, mirrors..... It's obvious to me. And most people I know locally. And at least a few posters that have mentioned the same.
Last edited by HPP; 04-06-2005 at 11:12 PM.
04-06-2005, 11:00 PM
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A lot of good points made ^,just my 2 cents, I own a 05 Silvarado(my DD) and a 02 SS. I love my SS but sometimes feel that I bought a "starter" car you need a 12 bolt, clutch & SFC's minimum to make the car into what "most" of us really want in an F body. the truck is a 4.3L but I just made a 1000 mile round trip from the Atl to B'ham to Biloxi back home and I love the way this thing rides/drives, BUT the ONLY other GM product I would consider owning right now is the C6 (Z06 version perfered LOL) of course the price of it is way north of what I can afford right now.......... Hope things turn around before its too late.
04-07-2005, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HPP
The differences are stark when looking at the 2 of them. Perhaps I'm just a little more keen to them. :shrug: Fender shape, stance, rims, body lines, roof line, door sides, mirrors..... It's obvious to me. And most people I know locally. And at least a few posters that have mentioned the same.
04-07-2005, 11:48 AM
#28
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We tend to generalize a bit.
Cadillac for example seems focused, has a good identity, and interesting vehicles.
But the other divisions suffer from a variety of issues:
-Cheapened brands from huge rebates
-Dated styling
-Lack of attention to details and refining features like Japanese cars
-Too many offerings, and vehicles are sometimes offered thru multiple divisons like the Vibe
-Divisions like Buick have lost their luster as the "now I'm getting a nicer car, I'm getting a Buick" car. Now Buick has an unclear brand with a mismatched lineup.
-GM has tried to compete with foreign car companies but more on price than on quality. The level of quality for $35K cars is fairly high, and GM needs to shift up to meet current standards. The fact that the GTO does not offer Navi is lame.
Cadillac for example seems focused, has a good identity, and interesting vehicles.
But the other divisions suffer from a variety of issues:
-Cheapened brands from huge rebates
-Dated styling
-Lack of attention to details and refining features like Japanese cars
-Too many offerings, and vehicles are sometimes offered thru multiple divisons like the Vibe
-Divisions like Buick have lost their luster as the "now I'm getting a nicer car, I'm getting a Buick" car. Now Buick has an unclear brand with a mismatched lineup.
-GM has tried to compete with foreign car companies but more on price than on quality. The level of quality for $35K cars is fairly high, and GM needs to shift up to meet current standards. The fact that the GTO does not offer Navi is lame.
04-11-2005, 09:23 PM
#29
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THANK GOD.
and also:
I disagree. The concept looks nothing like the production. The concept looks badass. the production looks like any other Grand Am.
and also:
Originally Posted by Delux247
Ummmm... the G6 is almost identical in looks to the concept.
04-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Diolar Magnum
THANK GOD.
and also:
I disagree. The concept looks nothing like the production. The concept looks badass. the production looks like any other Grand Am.
and also:
I disagree. The concept looks nothing like the production. The concept looks badass. the production looks like any other Grand Am.
04-14-2005, 12:14 PM
#31
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There are definately some differences between the G6 concept and prodo. Coupe models are due out soon though, hopefully they'll look a bit better, though I don't think they look that bad now. As for a daily driver, I don't really care if it has 2 or 4 doors as long as it's comfortable on the inside, has enough room to stow and haul stuff (not big items that's why you have a truck), get's good gas mileage, handles, and is able to get out of it's own way while getting on the freeway and out into traffic. Personally, the Vibe does that (read Toyota Matrix). So too does a WRX (though not with as good gas mileage). But when you drive as many miles a day as I do, you can't really throw 25K @ a car to rack up miles on and hopefully this is where the cobalt will capture some market segment. I sat in one of those @ the 1st of the year and unfortunately thought "neon." This of course was after driving a WRX (which I've since decided is a nice car but to much $ for what it is). Since I just got done with college, budget is key, and I don't think any of the American auto manufactures offer anything right now with styling, some power, and reasonable price. (Fortunately I'm still driving the family hand-me down but, hey, right now, wheels are wheels).
The affordable performance car market will never exist again. Especially when you have Euro and Jap "tunner" cars, worse yet, 4cyl. tunner cars, going for the near 40k market. (Fortunately there are pleanty of aforementioned C3s, 4s, 5s, and F-bodies, as well as Fox Stangs, ect out there and this is the route I'm looking to go now.)
Another thing that I think hurst GM is the age of it's execs and Board of Directors. If you look @ their ages as well as their backgrounds, not many of them have had deals pre. GM that are in the auto industry. Current Board members include the former CEOs of Eastman Kodak, Northrup Grumman, Merrill Lynch (though this one make sence because of GMAC) and those are just the one that the below article lists as having dealt with corp. restructings (and those words alone don't sound good for the future of the General). If you own stock, and you haven't dumped it already, DO IT NOW. GM is going to hurt for the next 2 or 3 years. Aged product lines, the inability to be in tune with the consumer market, dabbelings into still born investments (read Fiat) are just amoung the MAJOR issues that need to be dopped out before any gains can begin to be made.
Wagoner has done a half way decent job with Caddy. If you hadn't noticed, what's one of the way's they've done that? Through agressive marketing, edgier styleing, and by going back to RACING. (IE Le Manns 3~4 years ago). Chevy and Pontiac already have a leg up in that department as they've been racing for years. GTO is supposed to debut later in the NHRA season in Pro Stock, same with the cobalt. Will it do anything for sales, no. At least the GTO will have more in common with it's Pro Stock distant cousin, unlike the Cobalt. Monte Carlo SS is supposed to revert back to RWD as well.
No reason that GM can't copy other's ideas, processes, and theories. It's called quality control, 6 Sigma, and all that other
that they teach in basic undergrad business programs. Right now, GM isn't doing anything to help itself, so I wouldn't hold my breath. That's my nickle, go buy a candy bar in the 60s with it, and drop 7 more on a gallon of gas. And while you're at it, pick me up a Duice, Trans Am or Z28.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...ue0&refer=home
The affordable performance car market will never exist again. Especially when you have Euro and Jap "tunner" cars, worse yet, 4cyl. tunner cars, going for the near 40k market. (Fortunately there are pleanty of aforementioned C3s, 4s, 5s, and F-bodies, as well as Fox Stangs, ect out there and this is the route I'm looking to go now.)
Another thing that I think hurst GM is the age of it's execs and Board of Directors. If you look @ their ages as well as their backgrounds, not many of them have had deals pre. GM that are in the auto industry. Current Board members include the former CEOs of Eastman Kodak, Northrup Grumman, Merrill Lynch (though this one make sence because of GMAC) and those are just the one that the below article lists as having dealt with corp. restructings (and those words alone don't sound good for the future of the General). If you own stock, and you haven't dumped it already, DO IT NOW. GM is going to hurt for the next 2 or 3 years. Aged product lines, the inability to be in tune with the consumer market, dabbelings into still born investments (read Fiat) are just amoung the MAJOR issues that need to be dopped out before any gains can begin to be made.
Wagoner has done a half way decent job with Caddy. If you hadn't noticed, what's one of the way's they've done that? Through agressive marketing, edgier styleing, and by going back to RACING. (IE Le Manns 3~4 years ago). Chevy and Pontiac already have a leg up in that department as they've been racing for years. GTO is supposed to debut later in the NHRA season in Pro Stock, same with the cobalt. Will it do anything for sales, no. At least the GTO will have more in common with it's Pro Stock distant cousin, unlike the Cobalt. Monte Carlo SS is supposed to revert back to RWD as well.
No reason that GM can't copy other's ideas, processes, and theories. It's called quality control, 6 Sigma, and all that other
that they teach in basic undergrad business programs. Right now, GM isn't doing anything to help itself, so I wouldn't hold my breath. That's my nickle, go buy a candy bar in the 60s with it, and drop 7 more on a gallon of gas. And while you're at it, pick me up a Duice, Trans Am or Z28.http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...ue0&refer=home
04-14-2005, 12:17 PM
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Oh, btw, I remember reading somewhere that GM's board of directors was/is "Nothing but a bunch of cereal making, coca cola drinking, main stream white colars excs that don't know anything about cars or their customers who buy them." I bought into that a while back and am really begining to see that myself. Worse yet, the general populus does too.
