GoFast908Z

iTrader: (12)

I'll be done with college in 07, which gives me about 2 years to save for the new Camaro....i don't care what it looks like...i'm buying it! I'll probably be married by then too....so I should probably save for the new Challenger for the wife! LOL. I'm sold on both.

Whisper

iTrader: (12)

What in the flying **** is so gay about a car being more efficient? Let me guess..a car that gets 15mpg hwy more manly than a car that sounds and peforms better yet gets 30mpg hwy? A peice of **** unefficient gas hog(which the LS1 is far,far from) is more manly, I presume? When I try to comprehend why some people hate efficiency its like having a damn anuerism, hernia, and sever case of the ***** all at once. Do you love that this country eats out of OPEC's hand and that midle eastern royal families drive around in 24 gold plated cars?

Why is DOD such a step in the wrong direction? Would you be oposed to them finding a way to utilize variable valve timing in pushrod motors too?

Dont get me wrong, Im in no way wanting them to blaspheme the Camaro nameplate with a 4 or 6 or even underpowered V8, but I sure as hell hope they make it just as if not more so efficient as my LS1. EPA nuts arent going to give up, and rightfully damn so. As long as sports cars are amazingly efficient Im sure theyll keep their bitching aimed where it needs to be: on dog **** steel brick SUVs.

02Z28

iTrader: (11)

Right on!

02SOMWS6

iTrader: (6)

2009/2010 is a far way off. Just think how much money you can save up by then........LOL

Carbed4thGen

iTrader: (2)

If you were setout to buy one and started saving now I can EASILY see being able to pay cash for it lol

JBGRAYTA

I don't need a 2009, 2010 camaro, whatever year its gonna come out. Same goes with the new(supposedly) Challenger, new Cobras, Z06s. Nice cars yes, but I'm happy with my TA. It has on/off light switch, AC, power windows, a stereo, and thats it. I hate heated seats, 10 diff't light switches, climate control, power roof. If I want more power, I'll just buy a crate engine. I want to be happy with what I have, and not get an obsessive boner for these new near unobtainable cars.

marcus769

I somehow forgot about this thread.... After reading all the posts, I finally have space for more of my opinions.

If the "new" Camaro comes out in 2007 you're likely to see the LS2 6.0L engine, maybe with some type of FIl. They would stay with that engine, but go with FI as it wouldnt mess up the gas consumption too much, but pack a big punch. Sure it will come with only 5 psi or whatever they tried with the GTP engines, which can easily be changed. The Engine would offer a Forged bottom in this case, which is good for spray or more boost as well. That would be a win/win option for 2007.

If the production reaches 2008 or 09, the only thing we can go by is what they are doing with the Vette. The Camaro may equal the HP, but never top the vette for reasons stated before. I agree with whoever said by 08-09 I wouldnt be suprised to see the LS7 of some sort make an appearance in the Camaro. There will be better technology out there in the newer vettes by then to allow this to happen. Eventually they are going to almost have go with FI or the DOD to acheive higher power while maintaining "acceptible" emmisions requirements in the newer performance cars if this HP race continues. I dont really think the race will ever end, but it will slow until more technology is discovered... Emissions are going to be a big Key in what happens to the new performance cars, or any car/SUV for that matter.

To me it seems like a no-brainer for the 2007 to have some type of FI on the LS2. I wouldnt complain! I'm sure they'd opt for supercharging as they havent turboed a car since what... The Gran-Nationals,syclones/typhoons!?? (they kicked *** by the way!) I would take either one, but would prefer a turboed car.. Only because it would be something new. Stock supercharged cars are really nothing new. A turboed car would be. They make more efficient HP, why the hell not go with a turbo option!?

Most likely a single turboed LS2 you could expect what, another 100hp at the flywheel? Who the hell could complain? If you are going to say keep it all NA.. I have news for you... Time is running out for these engines to keep producing all this extra HP in Naturally aspirated form. We are craving too much for what technology NA-wise can handle, while passing emission standards. There will be a point where it just makes more sense to get the extra punch from FI and i hope it comes soon! (the 03-04 Cobras are monsters!) Just think of a 600hp BOLT on package from an aftermarket company like SLP had the 500hp Bolt on package for the Cobras of 03-04! (not saying it will be SLP, as i dont care for them. It was an example) I am not saying turbos are better than superchargers, or that FI is better in any way than being NA... I was throwing out what i am thinking at this point.

The bottom line is... The new Camaro has to be just awesome cosmetically, and what it offers for performance, or the car is going to flop like the GTOs... (mainly the 2004s)
I'm not saying the GTOs are junk, but i dont think they did what GM wanted to do for them as far as a business point of view....

Yes expect the very early ones to have markups just like the 04 GTOs had, and the new Z06 has... Its not really controllable, and cannot blame it on GM entirely, but its of the GREED the exects at the dealerships. GM may need to re-stratigize their allocation strategy to lessen this... Get more out at once, and allow ALL dealerships early allocation instead of only the BIG volume dealerships, as this will backfire to the consumers like the 2006 Z06 has. There are alot of people waiting now, because of the rediculous markups of the new C6 Zs. I am discusted, and i know others are...

Dont think about this stuff too much, as i dont think anything is going to come of this anytime soon. GM has beat around the damn bush too long. Its almost too late to re-gain any "middle market" performance car Cobra's are looking nicer every day, but so are the vettes.

I dont think i have anything else to say! (thank god!) Ok guys, Rip me wide!

marcus769

Holy ****.. Didnt think I typed that much!^^^

GoFast908Z

iTrader: (12)

GM is NOT going to use a FI LS2 in the Camaro, not for 07 and most likely not for 08. A supercharged LS2 would put out 500+ hp, overshooting the Z06, not to mention the regular Vette. So, for the reasons stated above, that wouldn't happen.

And about the Z06, not everyone is marking them up. I know of two people who bought them at MSRP. Just have to know where to look.

Lt1FBoDy209

FI LS2...yeah right
so people are expecting to see a 600 hp monster with a 12 bolt leather interior dvd navigation for...under 20k? right....

the main attraction towards fbodys has always been big power for a small price. the ls2 will most likely be in a top model that will hopefully run 35k fully loaded with a realistic mark up. if you want forced induction you will most likley have to look to aftermarket means and 6-10k for the kit.

well just my .02
you all are welcome to bash me if i am terribly wrong

LSWannabe

This is straight from the pages of HOT ROD (January '06)

6.2L GEN IV SMALL BLOCK CHEVY GETS VARIABLE VALVE TIMING

"The latest version of GM's Gen IV engine family features what's believed to be a worlds-first for a cam in block V8 engine: variable valve timing. GM introduced variable valve timing in it's pushrod 3.5L and 3.9L V6's in 2005, but the 6.2L slated for the Cadillac Escalade SUV will be the first used in a non overhead cam V8. Using a vane type cam phaser similar to that found in the DOHC Northstar V8, the VVT allows cam timing to be varied from 10 degrees advanced to 52 degrees retarded, for a total of 62 degrees of timing control. It's just one of the ways the new 6.2L is able to generate 400hp at 5,700 rpm, and more impressively, to maintain at least 90 percent of it's 415 lb-ft of torque from 2,300-5,600 rpm. Also new for the 6.2L, which is essentially a bored 6.0L(4.065 inch bore), are high flow LS7 derived cylinder heads that feature the same offset intake valve location and raised intake and exhaust ports as the CNC ported LS7 heads but with the standard 12 degree valve angles shared by the rest of the Gen IV engine family. This could make them the hot factory head swap option in years to come."


I think it's safe to say that, if they are even still producing the LS2 as we know it, the LS2 will not be the top engine offering for the new Camaro. It's also safe to say that, as sweet as FI would be(especially turbo), the only thing we might see FI on is the "blue devil" corvette that has been speculated about, and that looks to be SC.

Forged internals would be fantastic, hell beyond fantastic. But that is very unlikely. What is more likely is that we'll see a stronger live axle rearend shared with GM's larger trucks. True dual exhaust would not be unbelievble either since this will be a whole new platform, but we'll have to wait and see.

Wrap your noodles around my idea.

Base model V6 (who cares what size it is)
Z28-the latest variation of the LS2 6+ litres (whatever year the car debuts)
Maybe they'll give us the 6.2L without VVT. ~425hp

The LS1 was 5.7L-350 hp
The LS2 is 6.0L-400 hp
I could see an LS2 at 6.2L-425~hp

Now think about the LS7, the Z06 upgrade to the C6 is expensive as all hell. GM's most expensive option ever. But the engine isnt all you pay for. Think about suspension, titanium, carbon fiber, etc etc. You cant deny that a small piece of that price goes to the "prestige" of the baddest vette ever.

The LS7 is hand built(expensively). The LS1 was not. Is it not badass? Nor was the LS2, larger displacement, more power. Badass? That would be a yes. The C6 and the '05 GTO have the same motor and even the same advertised HP! By the time this new camaro hits the streets, I think it's very likely we will see a slightly detuned LS7 being robotically assembled (cheaper) to power the C6/7 and also the new Camaro SS both sharing the same power rating, maybe ~475hp. Probably the GTO too, but if GM is dumb enough to keep producing that car without entirely redesigning it's exterior. That wound will never close. If we have the C6 at 32XX lbs, bring in the Camaro at 34XX. Vette owns the track and equal if not slightly beat the Camaro drag times. (lighter more aerodynamic) I think the General could live with that. All drag tests of STOCK cars are on stock rubber. So the camaro's live axle advantage would be negated by street tires.

Base V6-240 hp?
Z28-425 hp 6.2L?
SS-475 hp 7.0L?

Also, another little tidwinkle of info. I'm sure some of you already know this. GM is already going to produce a 6 speed automatic for the STS-V capable of handling it's 440 hp supercharged V8. And by the time the new Camaro hits the production line, I think the A6 will definitely be an option. But now that I remember the blown STS-V motor. Maybe FI isn't completely out of the question.

LSWannabe

Say what you want about my post. We're all just speculating right now anyway. Maybe it will be everything we've hoped for. Or maybe they will axe the whole project.

Hoss Ghoul

iTrader: (2)

I basically agree with what you've said here.

A couple minor points though:

What about the LS7's dry sump oil system? Expensive and difficult to package.

Also I don't see having a 425hp LS2 or "new" 6.2 liter variable valve timing engine and then having an LS7 option that only produces 50 more hp. A base 405hp engine with an increase in power to 450-500 over the next 2 or 3 year model span is more likely(as evidenced by recent GM model history). That could easily be accomplished without the need for the LS7 engine.

Lastly the idea of variable valve timing in a cam in block being introduced any place but the Corvette seems -highly- unlikely to me. Perhaps a 405 base hp engine and an option variable timing, but that is still reaching.

400+ base HP for the Z28 seems a no-brainer.
5-6 speed auto seems a near certainty.
Optional or 2nd/3rd year power increase(however accomplished) also seems inevitable. Buyers have shown a willingness to pay 5K+ more for basically an appearance package(SS) so I see no need for GM to put an LS7 in to command a premium. A dual exhuast or slight bump in displacement, etc, would net them a nice sales bump without using the LS7.

Edit: Also I do see a need for GM to have a Cobra level performance Camaro to help elevate the Corvette above the Mustang in the publics eye.

jmurray87

iTrader: (1)

Awsome write up my friend, wow a 6speed auto thats kinda crazy.

Dom

iTrader: (2)

That's old news in the car world. Maybe new to GM since they're always dragging ***.

I'm excited about the upgraded drivetrain and 6.2LS2 with VVT and LS7 design heads.

LSWannabe

I posted the excerpt from HOT ROD about the VVT motor because people were questioning how GM will keep upping the HP and still pass emissions etc. We will have to see how many models will share that technology. One thing I hope GM uses on the Camaro is the Z06 exhaust butterflies.

That's a valid point about the LS7 dry sump system. Maybe we'll see the V6 and Z28 model for the first year or two of production. I could see them giving the Z 405/410 hp rating even if it makes ~425 or not. Then (we can only hope) a detuned machine assembled version of the LS7 (dry sump? or not?) pushing anywhere from 460-475 for the grand entrance of the Camaro SS into production (shared with the base vette of course, and if the GTO is still around probably a "GTO Judge" version). Or maybe not, if they have a 6.2L ~425hp motor that they are underrating they could leave the LS7 exlusively hand built and exclusively Z06. Instead use some more advanced heads (LS7 derived) and a more aggressive cam (nothing crazy obviously) with VVT to pass emissions and be making the 460-475 I mentioned before without underrating the motor. Then they have a base 405/410 rated (425) motor and the upgrade (same displacement) 475 motor (accurately rated). I think they could easily get 50-60 more FWHP with the heads/agg. cam using VVT. The more HP the public "thinks" they are getting with the upgrade, the more likely they will buy it. Doesnt matter if it only actually has 40 more horse, if GM advertises 70 more horse. That means more sales, something DESPERATELY needs. By then they may have some new tricks for the Z06 to be running 550hp+. VVT? FI?

I definitely agree that if the Camaro gets VVT the vette will get it also/already have it. I also agree with you about GM wanting to keep the vette above the GT 500 in the public eye by having a mid level car on it's playing field. It's almost unbelievable that GM has kept the Camaro concept out of the public's eye entirely. No spy shots? I bet that the concept, if it is fully operational, has NOT been driven/tested anywhere.

My car is only lid/catback so far. The unveiling in January will determine if I will still want to heavily modify this car or wait to buy a new Camaro. Lest we not forget when Chrysler unveiled the Charger concept. I thought that car was awesome. The charger that made production years later looked NOTHING like it. I do think the SRT-8 charger looks tough. I wouldn't consider buying one though, I would have considered buying one modeled after the concept though.



We all know what the Charger badged "dodge magnum sedan" looks like now though.

Dealers who markup cars due to demand are scandalous. Luckily my dad works (and will remain working) for GM. So I can get the new Camaro with the employee discount. Just one more reason I'm hoping the General doesn't screw this up.

Hoss Ghoul

iTrader: (2)

Spy photos, heh, you missed the action today in this forum, have a look!