Justin00SS

iTrader: (5)

Sure thing man. You got me. lol

Sure

unit213

Sure it is.

Justin00SS

iTrader: (5)

To a degree. Your not gonna win the Indy 500 with a 5hp go cart.

There is a reason why people are driving the cars and not computers. Driver can make up for in skill what another driver may have in a car that's setup is better.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

a supercar has to have killer looks, and be able to top 200+ sub 3 second 0-60 times. spectacular handeling, big price tags, and all the other goodies. plus they need something different than the competition. say for instance the Maseratti MC12, its basically a copy of the enzo, but the enzo's body doesnt raise and lower to get in and out of a driveway...or at least I dont think it does.

kars10_4

So if supercars have to have sub 3 second 0-60 times that is one damn tiny classification of cars . My definition of supercar would be mid-engine, over 500hp, capable of over 200mph and 0-60s in the 3s.

Justin00SS

iTrader: (5)

Exactly.

You the regular joe can't just go and buy or build a supercar.

It has to be exotic.

LTSpeed

You guys call whatever you want a supercar. To me, supercar is an indicator of overall performance. The word exotic signifies how rare something is. The terms don't need to be used together. Ridiculously expensive also doesn't make something a supercar.

If the Z06 and Ford GT can run with supercars, then they have to be supercars in my book. In fact, I'd go so far as to class many cars on this site as supercars.

kars10_4

By my definition a Ford GT is a supercar. And I would also add production car to my definition, modded cars shouldn't be called supercars IMO.

Bowtiered

According to GM sources the Corvette Stringray should be out in summber 07 with a supercharged LS7 around 650hp, and weigh in at around 2900lbs. (Roughly the weight of a Solstice) I have heard that from a friend of a friend that works GM, and some taken from Motor Trend. Either way, I'd say at 4.46lbs/hp it will be one of the 5 fastest cars in the world. The only car I can find with a power to weight ratio that high is the Veyron, and it's not spectacularly better, at 4.2:1. So if we have a FACTORY car capable of holding somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.05g's, Accelerating to 60 in less than 3 seconds, likely around 2.6-2.8, dropping mid 10 second quarters, and getting 20mpg, along with a price tag that an upper middle class single american male COULD afford. Tell me what is not "super" about that.

For $1.7 million you can buy a veyron, which has, essentially, 2 VW passast motors in it with 4 turbos. Tell me how difficult it is to engineer a car with 1000hp when you don't have to fit it into anyone's budget. Dont get me wrong it difficult, but GM engineers have made much greater engineering advances when they can produce a car with similar performance for a twentieth the price. (Less the diamonds in the dashboard.)


(And yes, a upper middle class american can afford to make a $1400-1600/mo car payment if they wish to. They can afford to pay that much for a house and support 3 kids and a wife with 2 or 3 car payments, if you're single, and you want that car, you CAN afford it.)

98redM6

iTrader: (39)

If it is not a supercar, it is a supercar killer.

The equivalent to Chuck Norris; it'll go killing, not hunting.

In the spirit of American made muscle, I would advertise it as just that. I don't think GM wants its metal, or in this case carbon fiber, to be classified in the same category as an Italian car for snooty, stuck up people. As seems to be the concensus around this discussion, who cares what it costs or what constitutes a supercar/exotic, it'll whoop the living snot out of it.

LTSpeed

NO! You did not just drop Chuck on us! That's sacred dude!

J-Rod

No, you missed out on Corvette History. The Z07 package was offered in both the C3 and C4's. For instance in 1991 (since I looked at one). It was composed of, essentially combined the previously available Z51 performance handling package with FX3 selective ride/handling.The new RPO Z07 option used all heavy duty suspension parts so the ride adjusted from firm to very firm. Intended for aggressive driving or competition, Z07 was limited to coupes.

In the C3 it was Z07 Off Road Suspension and Brake Package

Have you ever driven or even ridden in either car. I can point you at friends who own both. I've riden in both. I own one of them. Let me expalin, the Viper is a great car. But, (at least in the Gen I and Gen II cars) it requires someone that knows what they are doing to get the car to perform (no ABS, bad brake bias, no active handling, etc...) The Corvette on the other hand is much easier for the more "limited" driver to get to perform. Also, the HP difference on a Viper is about 70HP over a Z06.

Now, for some comparison times from the Nurburing:
7:43 --- 2006 Corvette Z06
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette CE Z06
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5

BTW, I've drag raced stock Vipers vs my Stock Z06, and even with 70 less Hp, I've beat them from a dead stop. From a roll I lost by 2.

My buddy owns:
88 Lingenfelter Vette
96 GTS Coupe (Supercharged)
01 Z06
03 Viper (Turbo Charged)
05 Viper Truck (Twin Turbo)

When he bought his 96 he thought it was a POS compared to the 88 Vette. The Vette was so much better on the road course. He spoke with one of the premier Viper racers at the time, and explained the situation. After explaining what he had, and how it compared, the Guy told him "You''ll never be happy with the Viper". Look the GenI and GenII cars had their quirks. They were a handful to drive, and they needed work to optimize them. As I said before, brake modulation on the cars stock sucks. For about 2 year the 96 was called the parade queen, as that was all it was good for (driving slowly in parades). But, the ability to make the cars work is now readily avaliable.

All that being said, I think the Viper GTS is an extremely attactive car. The car makes crazy mid-range torque, and pulls like a frieght train.

You have a series there which has all sorts of restrictions (air box restrictors, airbox size, weith, etc...) to try to level the playing field. Comparing that to a street car is ludicrous. Look at Lou G. in World Challenge. He's running a 6.0 with a restrictor against a Viper with an 8.3L (and no restrictor), and still winning.

Anyway, all I can say is you need to check your facts...

bruddah_man_matt

Yup You're right about the Z07. Just looked it up.

Only driven a 2nd Gen GTS Coupe, a standard C5 Coupe and a standard C6 coupe. All manual transmissions. The C6 Corvette was the easiest to drive but the Viper was a fastest. It required ******* full concentration and attention to take it to the limit but I enjoyed driving it more than either the C5 or the C6. I might change my mind if I were to drive a C6 Z06 though.

As for the Viper's ring numbers, are those numbers from Chrysler or an owner who tracked his car? I know for a fact that GM tests the Corvette there over and over to try to get the best lap time out of the car but I've never heard Chrysler tout a ring time for the Viper throughout the cars history. I'm not sure Dodge cares about lap times around a single track, even if it is the greatest track in the world. I think they prefer to let the 8.3L V10 speak for itself.

And I know what the hp difference between a Corvette and a Viper is but SOMEONE ELSE said that a 650hp would be eaten by a 350hp C5. I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

I know about the cars attitude towards drivers. The lack of ABS on the early cars doesn't help either. And they were pieces of **** ergonomics wise but that's what made them so attractive. Their raw nature is what makes them so appealing. But then again, your friend bought another one and a Ram SRT-10. Guess he found something he liked about that monstrous 8.3L V10.

As for you beating Vipers from a dig but losing from a roll, this is more an indication of traction than power. Sounds like you hooked better but the Vipers weren't able to put the power down.

World Challenge??? Give me a break. We're talking FIA GT factory teams here, not privateers. And even then, give me stats on both of the cars you're talking about as well as stats on the drivers. How heavy are the cars you're referring to? How much power are they making? A 6.0 can still put down good numbers. What are the rules and restrictions of the series. In any case as I said, I was referring to FIA GT. And you wouldn't be babbling about this if the tables were turned. People tout the C5-R and C6.Rs victories in GT racing as a testament to the greatness of both cars yet when they are criticized then all of a sudden "oh it's racing, it's different." Yes and no. GM sure had no problem advertising the C5 Z06 with references to it's C5-R and it's GTS class wins at Le Mans a few years back.

The full blown racing iterations are IMO these cars at their purest. This is in essence what they were designed to do. Yes they're heavily modified and yes there are rules but so what. When it comes time to hit the track the factory teams demonstrate what their respective manufacturers and their cars are capable of. It's not done in America too much these days because everyone only watches NASCAR, but in Europe there's still quite a bit of the Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday philosophy. For me, if manufacturers are going to pass off their race wins as a testament to the street cars their racers are derived from then they should be willing to stand up for their racers whether or not they lose. You'll notice that Chevy only started bragging about it's GTS wins after they were able to get one and that was after the factory backed Oreca Vipers left the series. They also shut up the one year the Prodrive Ferrari 550/575 left them in the dust.

BLOODTA

iTrader: (19)

Yep, the Enzo's body does raise to get in the driveway, just not my driveway.

Cheatin' Chad

iTrader: (3)

I love the extractor C6.R style hood but it wont work in a production C6 based vehicle. Theyd need to move the engine back and move alot of **** around.