badjuju342

iTrader: (3)

It kinda seems to me that they weren't as quick to keep up with the current trends and what the buying public really wanted starting around the late 70s and well into the 90s . A good example is how 3rd gen F-bodies sold very well , along with Mustangs ,etc but other cars were just were flops . The Citations , Aries K , Tempos, Omnis just weren't very appealing cars. Chrysler went all but completely out of the performance scene (Shelby Charger:FWD , 4cyl, no serious competition for Mustangs and Camaros) At the same time , Japanese cars were crap but they were very cheap.A Datsun B210 was a very poor car in terms of quality or durability, Toyota Corollas were the same. The Japanese did have the foresight to learn from their mistakes and build a well built car for less money .The late 70s and 80s (1980 Corvettes with 305s to pass California emmissions? WTF?) were a bad time for the consumer to buy any new car. If a design was successful , they didn't seem to want to support it. The LT1 Impala SS was a very sought after car but they only built it a few years then screwed the design up . Consumers were infuriated that they went from a large , comfortable RWD car with a decent powerplant to a smaller , FWD with very little performance at all.

Then , the SUV craze kicked in and they really went way overboard in offerings in this category. After the trend dropped , they didn't see the writing on the wall and just kept crankin' em out. Got caught with their pants down on that one.

And this was a perfect example of how far out of touch GM execs had gotten: One of GM guys who posted here ( he shall remain nameless to protect the clueless) told us that " There is no market for RWD ,V8 2 door coupes anymore"This was just as the new retro Mustang had came out and dealers couldn't keep them on lots.Yeah , that market is dead for sure!

GM has some good designs now (Solstice, Camaro ,Sky ) and are moving back to the area the Japanese will never compete with them: Modern musclecars.They need more of this approach and less of the "follow the leader" introducing cars that are in trends showing their age. Be more in tune with the public than " brand X sold the heck out of that model so let's take 4-5 years to build our version of it." LEAD , don't follow! And if you hit on something ,expand on it, pay attention to your buyers instead of marketing guys in salmon shirts sipping latte' with their pinky extended telling you what they think the public wants.

Quality is very good right now ( just as good as the Japanese have ) , keep that up , you could save yourselves yet. And no single executive needs multimillion $ bonuses if your ship is sinking , make 'em earn it. Bring in new blood to design cars that excite the public instead of pacifying them. And for the love of God , give the consumer the biggest bang for their buck without pricing the products in the stratosphere. I could keep preaching on this subject but it would fall on deaf ears , I'm afraid.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

poor mngt. is why GM is digging out of a hole theyre in that started decades ago. theyre doing better now.

the fact that z06s are sold for sticker and higher means GM doesnt have to rebate that vehicle to move it so theyre making money on it.

i agree with everything else. as i pointed out earlier its perception that domestic cars are inferior thats hurting them now.

trans-am6.6

Shouldn't you be alright as long as you keep the medication out of your mouth? You wear gloves right? Or are you the test pilot? I just don't see the dangers of a pharmacy compared to an automotive factory. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

a lot of what i work with is in powder form. that coupled with a humidity controlled environment makes it very hard NOT to get it all over the place. if you arent careful its very easy to breathe it in.

badjuju342

iTrader: (3)

My base pay was 25.00 an hour , 37.50 for the first 2 two hours of overtime per shift , and 50 dollars per hour for anything about that. I usually worked 16 hours per day , 5 days a week. It sounds just wonderful , doesn't it? I had no life , never got to do much of anything and slept whatever off time I had. It made you old very fast. And again , the factory enviornment had all kinds of ways to get you hurt or killed. Besides what I listed , there was constant exposure to high levels of noise to clobber your hearing , exposure to chemicals if handled improperly by you or someone else. And God help you if you did hurt because you were gonna have one hell of a fight with corporate.(Following you at home with video cameras and documenting everything you did)

As for union protection , it was nothing like you described at all. They could fire you for work performance , absenteeism ,making racial statements, sexual harassment, physically threatening another worker, and just about any reason that would get you canned from any other job. Video cameras were all through the plant so they knew exactly what was going on.The union would represent you if you got in trouble but it didn't guarantee you anything ,I saw plenty of people get fired.

And the Mazda truck is a totally different animal from the Nissan , in fact Mazda pickups eventually became rebadged Ford Rangers as Isuzu P'ups were Chevy Luvs and later models were rebadged Chevy S-10s . Guess maybe they figured us Americans might know how to build 'em , huh?

dailydriver

Of course, there are Econ 101ers & "globalists" on all of the import fanboy sites (and sadly, here as well) that will say you are killing this country by doing that. Talk about your "pretzel logic"!! There are plenty of sport/performance Nippon/import cars out there that I "like" (NONE of which are made here, so that arguement goes right out the window!!!). So sorry, "buy what you like"ers, I just CANNOT bring myself to do that.

ls1 jeff

iTrader: (2)

Id love to know where all these unions are where you can screw off all day, tell management to **** off, and get paid for it. There is a lot of misconception about unions, usually by people who aren't in them. Where I work, if you dont produce your down the road.

We dont get paid vacations, holidays, or sissy *** sick days either. If we dont show up to work we dont get paid. Simple as that.

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

toyota or any other japanese company does not have a turbo diesel that can out tow a cummins/duramax/powerstroke last time i checked

Hydramatic

*cough* Isuzu *Cough*

Didn't anyone tell you Isuzu helped design the D-max?

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

doesnt GM own most or all of isuzu? just asking.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Better rethink that. Car and Driver did their 5 best trucks, and included the new Tundra. Guess who own- The new silverado.

http://www.caranddriver.com/besttruc...st-trucks.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/besttruc...ees-page2.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/besttruc...94/pickup.html

Now what?

trans-am6.6

Oh, I thought you worked at like Walgreens or something like that, lol. I know some of the stuff in today's medications will screw your life up. I bet you have become an expert at not sneezing.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (8)

And C&D is HEAVILY biased towards Toyota...

25psi

It did not include the Tundra! They where not allowed to disclose any stats regarding the 5.7 liter V8, until Jan. 8. So no comparison was made!

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Just because they didnt release specs doesnt mean it wasnt compared. Read the actual article, look at the pictures. They have driven the Tundra, and it was part of the test. It would be a mis-representation for them to have the truck there for pictures, say it was part of the test, and not actually compare it.
Stats really make little difference, that would be like losing a race and saying "But mine dynoed higher". Not to mention that Toyota and Honda specs dont mean much since they had to redo some of their power rating a few years ago from being to high. Plus their recent odometer problems giving higher MPG readings. What difference would stats make?

25psi

Show me where they actually compared the new Tundra to the Silverado? Also show me where they listed the top 5 pickup trucks.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Have you looked at the links? The top 5 are the Best Pickup, small suv, large suv, luxury suv, and van. Also, on the second link it lists the nominees and the Tundra is there. Also, if you were to look further you would see that the Escalade and Colorado have an asterisk next to them because they were not available for the test, which means that the Tundra would have the same had it not been available.
Also notice how they subconciously (or maybe conciously) they put the only domestic all the way in the back of the group photo even though it sells in the largest volume.

95zpro

It's safe to say everybody on this board supports GM(Camaro's, Firebirds, T/A's, Vette's etc.) however I think where the big 3 are missing the boat is in the family cars. Yeah they have the truck market sewn up but what happens when gas goes thru the roof again this spring/summer ? Where the foreign brands have gotten smart is focusing on the family vehicles (four door,5 passenger, sporty,good gas mileage). It's this perception that they make a good 'car'(Camry,Altima,Accord etc.) that is doing in the big 3. Yeah their are some successes like the Charger,300m etc. but I think until the big 3 come up with some cars (besides performance) that are going to appeal to families they are going to keep missing the boat. I'd like to see GM bring back the big bodies Impala, etc. but until they bring back cars other than performance vehicles that people like to drive/commute/haul the kids around in it looks bleak. Abolishing unions (not going to happen),closing dealerships(already happening by Ford) and crying about how much of a percentage of truck/car is made in the etc. isn't solving the problem of producing a product that people want. We live in a capitalistic society where demand,economies of scale etc. are the determining factors of how business competes. The big 3 need to take a look not at the processes of manufacturing(lean system) but at the products and perception of their products by consumers(maybe using focus groups more) in order to turn this trend of losing market share around.

bruddah_man_matt

I like how you post that as if it's the by all end all conclusion as to which is a better truck.

You don't know what version of the Tundra they tested. Trust me when I say that if they had access to a full range of Tundras they would have done a full review on the 2nd Gen truck. Everyone wants to get their hands on this thing. Show me proof that they tested the 5.7L model and then MAYBE you'll have something to talk about. I say maybe because C/D's "10 Best" list often consists of bullshit *** winners and slanted categories.

Just look at the criteria that separates small and large SUVs in their stupidly biased and retarded 5 Best Trucks "competition." A 184" length. The **** is that ****? How do the CX-7 and CX-9 BOTH fall into the large SUV category when the CX-7 is designed to compete with say the Acura RDX and Toyota Rav4 which are listed in the small SUV category? And since when is the Toyota FJ (which ironically checks in at 183.9" and should therefore be considered a "small" SUV in C/D's test) a full size SUV when its main competition are vehicles like the Dodge Nitro and Nissan Xterra which once again are listed in the small SUV class according to that slanted comparo?



Getting back to the Tundra we simply need head to head comparos of the Silverado and Tundra from the motoring press. None of this sliding the two into these ridiculous "...of the year" awards crap. The Tundra most certainly will not take over the #1 spot in terms of sales with regards to trucks, but it is poised to put a decent dent into the truck sales figures of the Big 2.5 which is Toyota's intention. They're only looking to shift 200,000 units a year and don't depend on it to turn a profit unlike GM and Ford. M/T recently wrote their "First Drive" write-up on the new Tundra and stated that "Toyota was playing catch up to the previous gen Big 2.5 trucks just like GM and Ford often played catch up to the previous gen Camry with their midsize car offerings." My ***. No one saw the 381hp 5.7L V8 and 6 speed automatic coming which is why GM rushed the new Silverado to market without having enough 6.2L L92 and 6L80s to go around. 14 inch 4WDB and a 10,800 lbs. towing capacity are nothing to sneeze at either. GM got lazy with their new Silverado plain and simple. Once again they only met the standards of the industry rather than exceeded them (although I will say that the new interiors of the Silverado were a very nice and unexpected touch). In terms of mechanicals they were caught sleeping and now GM wishes that it had more L92s and 6L80s to go around.

If the Tundra meets or exceeds Toyota's planned for 200,000 unit sales figures Toyota will have won. Figure that in 8 years their market share will have gone from 0% to what, 12-15% and you realize that the dent Toyota has put into Big 2.5 sales is bigger than you'd think.

Like I said, we need a straight up comparo between the two trucks. What I'd like to see is a comparison between the Silverado and Tundra and then a sidebar on how well the Sierra Denali stacks up against the Tundra performance wise as the Denali's powertrain will certainly find a home in the top of the line Silverados either next year or worst case scenario for the 09 model year.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

The same guy who said that is the guy now who says C&D is not the best source, but Motor Trend is?

The fact is you said in a comparison the Tundra would have won, but in fact it was the Silverado that won.

I love how when something benefits you the car magazines are a good source, but when they actually did a comparison and the Silverado came out on top the magazines are no longer a good source.

Go troll somewhere else. You come on a domestic automotive website and spill your one sided information and then disregard other information. Face it, you said it would have been no comparison and you were wrong. The Silverado went up against the Tundra and came out on top.

End of story.