Oh yeah I was going to add, I know nothing about running a business that large.
I will say they are getting better. I do believe that the oldest two Chasiss they now have are the one the Malibu is built on and the Uplander are built on are gone after this year. Which is good those things were outdated.
The Malibu is sharp and they can't keep there Crossovers on the lots.
The G8 is on the Zeta Platform which the Impala and New Camaro will share.
While we as car guys don't like badge engineering (uh remeber the Cimmaron, ok maybe you don't want to, good on your part), my guess is there are a lot of people out there who could care less.
Making similar cars saves GM money and eventually the end user because parts are cheap as hell.

 

For every year a Pontiac engine was offered in a F-body it would walk the Camaro. When they went away from making their own engines, whos engines did they can first? Pontiacs... and not because it was crap or anything, they were the most costly engines being made and they had to scrap up pennies from somewhere. The engineers back than understood the power was in the heads, get the air in and get the air out, simple as that, imply big valves to help with this. John DeLorean was a big help, he went and propsed the Banshee but the Vette team threw a fit and that was the end of that and he was told to build from the F-body platform. If I remember right, the engine DeLoreon developed for the Banshee was put into the 69 Trans Am's (Ram Air IV engine?) and was a real tire eater.

When the F-body was first brought into concept there was no Firebird, I think it was like two weeks DeLorean built the car up in with the body changes and their own engine, that would walk the Chevy, good proof of this is the Chevy guys at the factory putting dirt in the bumpers and other parts of the bird to try and weigh it down. Those old pontiacs sure were junk, I guess that is why Yearone decided on the remodel of the 78 Bandit TA they would offer a Pontiac engine in the high end of the car right? Could just shove a LSx engine or a SBC in there like everyone else does.


Chevy is the entrance brand level of cars for people, you want something without power locks and power windows, you can look here if KIA doesn't interest you... Even the Monte Carlo's that share the same platform as my GTP don't have heated seats, HUD, or a 3.8 supercharged until 03 or so came around. But everytime I go to the track or the street and there is someone there with their Intimidator SS with a N/A 3.8 they are always somehow conviced because it is a Chevy and a SS it will destroy the blown version of the engine.

 

GM can't afford completely unique cars for every one of it's brands. They can't afford to close divisions, they can't afford to pay for UAW healthcare and pensions, and they are mortgaged up to their eyeballs just to keep the business running.

So threadstarter, how would YOU propose GM find the money to engineer completely unique cars for each brand? Especially when no other automaker, even Toyota, doesn't do it themselves.

It makes much more fiscal sense to engineer one stellar vehicle, then differentiate it well for each brand like GM did with the Acadia, Enclave and Outlook. Than to engineer 3 completely different vehicles that fill the same market.

 

1st of all, the Z/28 and ZL1 would walk all over the 1st and 2nd gen T/A's. 2nd, Poncho engines sound like tractors. Third, the two fastest firebirds ever issued by GM BOTH used a different divisions powerplant. Fourth, the '96 Impala SS would ANNIHILATE a Bonneville SSEi. Do I really need to keep listing reasons?

Yes, Pontiac should be a level above Chevy, but to be honest, Chevy needs to start costing a bit less....It's fighting Saturn for it's slot....

 

Nothing is going to happen unless peoples perceptions change about the products that GM makes, who cares what part of GM makes it or whos name is on it as long as the General makes it. That is just ridiculous. They need a way to get the Import brainwashed folks into the show room

 

Not to be a dick but the 95-96 Impala SSs run right about 15.30 to 15.60 bone stock
The SSEi Bonneville of the same time frame runs 15.40 to 15.80. They were failrly evenly matched.
I would pefer the Impala SS as it is rear wheel drive and has a good aftermarket.
Just an observation.

 

Luts is a Putz....how smart is it to get into competition with BMW when they are talking about taking out the Pontiac line completely? Shows you how big a fool is running GM

 

YES!! At least someone ^^^ is awake, cognisant, and NOT brainwashed!!!

Every time I am stopped at a light next to an ES series Lexus, I shout out "Nice f'ing CAMRY"!!!!!

 

Or the TSX/Accord.

I think it is a great idea when the cars look different. The Acadia, Outlook and Enclave are all good looking and look very different. Now the G5/Cobalt or Torrent/Equinox are way too much alike. Only having to engineer one chassis and assembly line saves a lot of money and can result in good product.

 

You keep making excuses for Pontiac. I guesse since your such a Pontiac boy you never noticed how much the Banshee resembled a Vette, the first concept was in the early '70s, blinded but those ugly *** kindney grilles I assume. The Vibe had a awd option, do a little more research. I'm done talking to you. You started the name calling. My moms Impala SS ran 15.0 bonestock to the airfilter.

 

Well,
1. I would still axe Buick in North America(Acadia,Enclave same showroom )
2. Using the same platform is one thing. Overlapping the costs and options so much is another. The current crossovers again point to this they are all with in a few thousand of each other in price.
3. Brand engineer for the target audience. Saturn's are small car,conservitive shoppers. The Sky is very "look at me". Make them like Honda fighter. Small fuel efficent and dependable. Like they were supposed to be originally.
Chevy-the everyday car. I wouldn't tweek the line up much at all right now.
I however would not give them the Traverse. Tahoe, Trailblazer, Suburban, Equinox **** thats enough! Caddy is heading in the right direction too. Might axe the Escalade Ext or what ever the truck is. Pontiac-Sports and performance-Hi-po versions of some Chevy's. If they must sell a G5 make it the supercharged version instead of the SS model or offer it in a 2-door only and supercharged. Since the Torrent is axed the SUV Pontiac thing is dead (for the moment) A shift to RWD is expected and I hope it happens.
GMC should only sell well optioned model of the truck and SUV line. Alter the PCM's abit and offer modest (20-30 hp) power increases over the Chevys.
Maybe offer AWD on more models.
4. My original post was directed at the double talk of Lutz. G.M. was to stop or at least slow down the badge engineering. How can you make a case for a Sky AND Solstice but not a Camaro AND Firebird?? "There will be no new Firebird" Lutz has said this time and time again. Why??
5. Sell Saab.
6. I am not sure what the profit margin is on the Hummer brand but it seems like Hummers are a answer for a question no one asked. "Do soccer moms need a foot of ground clearance and horrible gas mileage to go to the mall and pick up lil Jill's prom dress?" "YES!!" Hardcore offroaders will build their own. And they don't compete with the Wrangler i terms of BASE price. So whats the point of the Hummer brand?

 

My point exactly. They are marketed toward different people and at different price points. That is what G.M. needs to do. Or find a way to make them look more different. Honda sold the CRX and del Sol on the Civic platform yet these cars did not share one body panel. And they looked very different from the Civics they were based off. The Monte was kinda different from the Impy . But why kill the 2-door GP? Was it stealing Monte sales? Did it look to similar? The GP is a longer running name why drop the 2-door for the Monte?