LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Good point, with their cars being SO perfectly reliable and dependable it's a wonder they even need any Master ASE/Techs on the payroll.
Job security for a tech must suck at a company making cars that never break down.

TriShield

GM isn't going to last another 30 years as-is, they've sold off just about everything they can and they lost as much money last year as ExxonMobil made. The company isn't just swirling the toilet, it's going down it at this point.

Toyota didn't brainwash anyone, GM (Ford and Chrysler) all chased their customers away with abysmal cars and they still do today. Toyota makes the best appliances on four wheels and that's something GM isn't going to beat them at anytime soon.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I'm still waiting to see these perfect Toyotas. I haven't had a Camry yet, so maybe its the best thing since sliced bread. My 2 most recent GM trucks have required 1 visit to the dealer between the 2 over 170,000 combined miles which is better than the Tundra I had. Ive had a couple of Corollas in the past, adequite at best. I did have a 90's Toy small truck that lasted to 160k, but it was primitive and not deserving of great praise. Hell, My wife had a leased 07 Explorer that I was expecting to be terrible but had Zero problems.

I don't share your enthusiasm for the demise of our American auto manf and although I'm biased towards American products I do buy an occassional "used" Japanese vehicle to see how much better they are.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, I certainly don't share his enthusiasm for that either and frankly I can't figure out how ANY honest and loyal AMERICAN could be as enthusiastic about it as some of the Japanese auto industry nutswingers on here seem to be.
GM's (or Ford's, or Chrysler's) demise might be on the horizon (but not likely) but there is really no need to celebrate it, even appearing to be smugly overjoyed by it.

Gaunt's_Girl

iTrader: (1)

IMO, everyone wants the NAME. Take Lexus for instance, people are brainwashed. Yes, they are decent cars, but WAYYY overpriced for what you're getting. I've never myself driven one, but when people of the bat say "lexus is so much nicer than cadillac," I want to shoot them!! And really, some of the lexus models look THE EXACT SAME as the base Toyota model, just different badges and a $20,000 sticker increase. I just don't understand people sometime..

Really, I think it's all to do with marketing. Toyota has great marketing and GM's marketing BLOWS!!!!!!!!
If people see 5 toyota commercials and 1 gm commercial, what do you think they are going to end up buying?

TT632

iTrader: (3)

Some people don't realize the amount of Americans employed by our auto manufacturers compared to the Foreign OEMs. GM by itself employs more Americans than all of the Japanese, Germans and Korean auto manufacturers combined.

In my opinion, theres plenty of room for the bottom tier Japanese and Korean companies to go under long before any of the Big three go down. They don't employ us, why the hell should we buy their product!

I'd have to disagree on the Toyota commerials as being great. If I see that dorky "Toyota Joe" guy that they have plastered all over the internet one more time I'm going to puke!

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I hear ya there.
Not sure if anyone realizes what it once meant to actually own a Cadillac. It was the WORLD STANDARD of automobiles back in the day, the trendsetter, the true measure used to show that one had 'arrived', I'm talking almost Rolls Royce status here.
I remember my uncles talking about it when I was very young, how they finally saved up enough money to buy even a used Cadillac and when my mother finally got her first one (a '67 Sedan DeVille bought in '71) the WHOLE neighborhood came over to see it.
I loved my '96 DeVille Concours, huge car with a 300hp Northstar 4.6L V8 and ran a 15.07@92.40mph in stock trim and I know I could've put it in the 14s.

98mysticZ

iTrader: (11)

what problems did u have with the tundra? and the rav did u ever take it in for the rattles? if no thats ur fault rattles are covered 3/36not toyota fault for u never taking it in..............

and BTW lexus is american built

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Proof? You serious? You don't need to be a genius to figure that one out.

Lets see

1. Ford compares their quality to that of Toyota in a commercial. Bad move IMO but it definitely says something when an established car company (one that implemented the first automotive production line) compares their production to a foriegn manufacturer.

2. In college (mechanical engineering) we were taught about Toyota's design practices. My wife (industrial engineering) learned about their manufacturing and quality control methods. What you can take from that is their practices are being taught at our universities.

3. Last statistic for quality I saw 7 out of 10 manufacturers were foriegn. I don't have it on hand but I can dig it up if you want "proof". It won't be hard.

Also, since you know it all, when integrating a system with thousands of parts you're going to have problems. Again, don't need to be a genius. It's a matter of who has the least.

As for preference, that's subjective, but I bet you're one of those idiots that thinks because it's not american it's garbage

And if you care to know we have 2 Ford trucks (maybe a 3rd very soon) and a GM vehicle in our driveway.

DrkPhynx

Nailing a few parts together does NOT make something American.

They do that only because we force them to. However, the trade agreement isn't so nice going back the other way.

And finally, the #s employed by the japanese companies is a drop in the bucket compared to the #s (of Americans) employed by the big 3.

DrkPhynx

JD Powers 2007 Dependability study -
2007 Initial Quality Study -
Your comments, though they mirror the mindset of most americans, don't add up against the data.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Just like the Sprinter Van. You can't pretty much 100% make it in Germany and then turn a couple of bolts in the good old USA and call it American.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Wow, a Toyota needing $3600 worth of work!!!!!!! Must be a fluke.

dailydriver

Since WHEN is this???

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there...that's not the point.
According to all of the import nameplate worshippers around here the vehicle is supposed to be rattle free and of ULTRA high quality at all times simply because it's a Toyota...if it were that good IT SHOULDN'T BE RATTLING IN THE FIRST PLACE!




NOT TRUE!

Model Production Location:
LS Tahara
LS Hybrid Tahara
GS Tahara
GS Hybrid Tahara
ES Kyushu
IS Kyushu and Tahara
IS F Tahara
SC Kanto Jidosha
LX Araco
GX Tahara
RX Kyushu
RX Hybrid Kyushu

dailydriver

^^^^^

GOOD ONE!!

I used that same one on a independent mechanic who also was a TOY/'DUH nutschwinging TOTAL azzhat over on bobistheoilguy.com
I asked him how long he planned on being in business from just oil changes on the 'gold standard epitome of perfection'<- Nippon nameplates he tells his clients to buy exclusively.

Maybe since they are sooooo efficient/perfect/infallible, etc. with their 'kaizen', J.I.T., et al, all of these Japan worshippers want them to come over here and run the WHOLE show/country??
They already have ALL of our other manufacturing, electronics, etc. and it seems like so many of you are just rubbing your hands together in anticipation of them killing off what's left of our auto industry.
I've NEVER seen so many so happy about the prospect of becoming a 4th WORLD country!!
I guess they really did win WW2, huh?? (SORRY for that one vets! )

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

You've got your facts skewed. The truth is that GM has cars that compete or excel in every single segment and often offer BETTER value than Toyota. GM is neck and neck with Toyota in every aspect of quality right now. Hell, last year 15 out of the top 18 vehicles in JD Power's initial quality study were GM and Toyota...9 GM, 6 Toyota.

Toyota is enjoying the success they currently have thanks to an inaccurate general perception of quality, and lots and lots of trade advantages given to them by our government because they are based outside of the US.

Toyota is the "benchmark" of how to build a bland car and sell it well.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

YOUR university apparently. I, on the other hand, had an entire class about inherent Japanese design flaws, and the reasons why quality engineering thrives in the US and Europe, but is much less consistent in far eastern countries.

My brother, who graduated with his masters in industrial design, had countless classes in which Japanese designs were used as examples of "what not to do". Styling in particular was the biggest issue, and it was fascinating for me to learn why. Their vehicles are styled primarily based on superstitious teachings that are several thousand years old. Shows how ridiculous people in our country are when they eat this **** up.

I refuse to pay $4500 for a tranny rebuild simply because some executive's ancestors said that gears are bad luck.

Well that's what happens when your statistics are over 5 years old. That's the last time "7 out of 10" manufacturers in the top ten for quality were foreign.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

There must be some sort of psychology of denial in an import buyers mind. Once you have sold out, you won't come back as a domestic buyer no matter how bad your import is. I have a fellow Engineer in my office who got pissed off as hell when his Chevy truck had a flat and he couldn't get his tire jack to work. Ran down to the Nissan Dealer and proceded to buy a new Titan. The Chevy truck he traded in and the one before that were inffalable, along with the S10 I sold his son which has 220k on it (Other than fuel pumps from running out of gas every other week). Now all he does is bitch about the Titan and it's poor gas mileage and it being in the shop several times in the first 6 months of ownership. My guess is he'll be back to a GM truck sooner or later.

My current Rav has nothing wrong with it as far as Toyota is concerned, it's just under developed from the factory-ie Wind noise, road noise, poor insulation, no features. Thats what you get for 28k. My 105k mi GMC feels like a Cady by comparison. My 2 year old Tundra had the trans go at 60k and a continuing warped rotor issues the 25k miles I owned it. I'm sure theres some good ones out there, but if I have to take it into the dealership and people are saying they are the best cars in the world I will cry Bunk!

I think my next car is going to be a Supra, it's the best car in the world, or so I'm told on the Supra boards.

dailydriver

Of course.
Didn't you know that they perform >2000 rwhp surgery on themselves, on pump gas and stock heads/internals, reliably, all the time, without you doing anything, and without you spending a thin dime!!
Why God himself is unworthy to touch this masterpiece of ultimate automotive perfection!!!
Chuck Norris runs in abject fear at the site and ppssshhhh, pppssshhh sounds it makes.
They launch nuclear projectiles out of their low hanging, sidewayzz fart cannons, which vaporize everything else on the road!!!

Is that enough fanboyzz, or have I not even scratched the surface yet??!