GM Loses $3.25 Billion During First Quarter of 2008
05-02-2008 | 03:15 AM
#21
So it's ok to have been burned by Toyota or Honda in the '60s/early '70s and go back but it's perfectly logical to NEVER go back to GM or Ford now when they too have made HUGE strides in building great vehicles?
Gotta love people with selective memories LOL.
05-02-2008 | 07:44 AM
#22
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 111
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Sorry, but I've seen more imports with blown motors than anything. They arent all their made up to be, even now days.
05-02-2008 | 08:20 AM
#23
I'm going to agree with the imports being more cracked up to everything than they are... My wife currently has an 06 Honda Civic with about 20K miles on it. I'm sorry but I'm definately not impressed whatsoever with the quality of the car. Everyone says the F-body interiors are cheap... go look at a honda lol they've got the cheapest looking junk in there. It's got a nice stereo system but other than that I'm thoroughly not impressed whatsoever with japanese cars...especially with what you have to pay for one.
05-02-2008 | 09:03 AM
#24
You want to know what is wrong with GM today, go look at their small car offerings.
Chevy Aveo- extremely cheap korean made car, but I can go buy a kia for the same price with a better warranty 24/34mpg, not very impressive
Chevy Cobalt/rebadged Pontiac that looks like the cobalt-bland, cheap inside, Honda Civic is way more stylish, can't compare to the build quality of a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc.
Saturn Astra- actually a really nice, rebadged Opel. Designed in europe, good handling, looks nice, well built. Will never turn a profit since its made in Europe and the Euro is currently worth~ $1.50 dollars
Pontiac Vibe-nice car, even though its a Toyota Matrix
Toyota has 8 different small cars that get good mpg(I counted the Camry Hybrid too). GM is not competitive in the small car market.
I'm just your regular old jagoff who knew back in 2003 when we invaded Iraq, that the price of gas was bound to increase. This sign wasn't even a gamble, it was a damn sure bet that cheap gas was a thing of the past. These same idiots in the GM board room are selling more cars to the Chinese, thus increasing world demand. So why didn't GM develop some decent small cars?
I'm really want to see GM suceed. I think they have some of the best stylist and engineers in the business. Its too bad that the top management is a bunch of ******* incompetent morons.
Chevy Aveo- extremely cheap korean made car, but I can go buy a kia for the same price with a better warranty 24/34mpg, not very impressive
Chevy Cobalt/rebadged Pontiac that looks like the cobalt-bland, cheap inside, Honda Civic is way more stylish, can't compare to the build quality of a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc.
Saturn Astra- actually a really nice, rebadged Opel. Designed in europe, good handling, looks nice, well built. Will never turn a profit since its made in Europe and the Euro is currently worth~ $1.50 dollars
Pontiac Vibe-nice car, even though its a Toyota Matrix
Toyota has 8 different small cars that get good mpg(I counted the Camry Hybrid too). GM is not competitive in the small car market.
I'm just your regular old jagoff who knew back in 2003 when we invaded Iraq, that the price of gas was bound to increase. This sign wasn't even a gamble, it was a damn sure bet that cheap gas was a thing of the past. These same idiots in the GM board room are selling more cars to the Chinese, thus increasing world demand. So why didn't GM develop some decent small cars?
I'm really want to see GM suceed. I think they have some of the best stylist and engineers in the business. Its too bad that the top management is a bunch of ******* incompetent morons.
05-02-2008 | 09:32 AM
#25
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 354
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Chevy Cobalt/rebadged Pontiac that looks like the cobalt-bland, cheap inside, Honda Civic is way more stylish, can't compare to the build quality of a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc.
Saturn Astra- actually a really nice, rebadged Opel. Designed in europe, good handling, looks nice, well built. Will never turn a profit since its made in Europe and the Euro is currently worth~ $1.50 dollars
Would you prefer they spent untold millions on making totally new vehicles when they don't have to? It's not like Opels are over here anywhere else. You say you want them to succeed, but yet you persist in deriding them for making smart moves (consolodating and re-using existing platforms to increase production efficiency and lower costs).
Pontiac Vibe-nice car, even though its a Toyota Matrix
05-02-2008 | 10:07 AM
#26
Guys, you don't need a better example of how badly run GM is than the F-bodies. The Camaro and Firebird both defined their brands and were legendary and unique cars only GM could deliver and what did they do? They let them whither without updates and canned them in order to devote resources to trucks and SUVs.
Years later Wagoner, Lutz, et all "canned" Zeta and making distinct RWD American cars for trucks once again. They devoted resources to accelerating the release of the GMT900 trucks and SUVs, products that are not selling at all.
GM abandoned all of you, abandoned making fullsize American cars (They ceded this market to Ford and later Chrysler picked up the slack with completely new and hot offerings) and didn't devote the same type of resources they did in cars like the new CTS to a compact and subcompact car which people are flocking to in droves.
To add insult to injury they gave Ford the entire muscle car market and the Mustang has flourished. GM's mishandling of it's own cars and putting gas-guzzling, terribly performing, woefully out of touch trucks first has now resulted in them playing catch-up to the Mustang and the Japanese. On both counts GM is going to be way too late to both parties.
The Camaro is taking forever to make and by the time it gets here fuel will be $4+ per gallon. Meanwhile Ford and Chrysler have the muscle and fullsize RWD American car market to themselves and the Japanese sell thousands of compact and subcompact cars to a public that wants them.
GM is going to be toast at this rate.
Years later Wagoner, Lutz, et all "canned" Zeta and making distinct RWD American cars for trucks once again. They devoted resources to accelerating the release of the GMT900 trucks and SUVs, products that are not selling at all.
GM abandoned all of you, abandoned making fullsize American cars (They ceded this market to Ford and later Chrysler picked up the slack with completely new and hot offerings) and didn't devote the same type of resources they did in cars like the new CTS to a compact and subcompact car which people are flocking to in droves.
To add insult to injury they gave Ford the entire muscle car market and the Mustang has flourished. GM's mishandling of it's own cars and putting gas-guzzling, terribly performing, woefully out of touch trucks first has now resulted in them playing catch-up to the Mustang and the Japanese. On both counts GM is going to be way too late to both parties.
The Camaro is taking forever to make and by the time it gets here fuel will be $4+ per gallon. Meanwhile Ford and Chrysler have the muscle and fullsize RWD American car market to themselves and the Japanese sell thousands of compact and subcompact cars to a public that wants them.
GM is going to be toast at this rate.
I for one have been very pleased with my LSx equipped vehicles and I'm happy to see the improvements in the mid size cars. If they improved the small cars a bit more I think it would help GM's stability going into the future.
05-02-2008 | 10:23 AM
#27
You don't get any "more" for you money from a Kia, but from the chevy, you at least support an American company. Given that there is no more cost to do so, this is just a BS excuse to support asian economies over our own (even if it's a Daewoo, it's still sold through GM, Kias are not).
The G5 kicks the snot out of the Cobalt (aesthetically). That's always the case when Pontiac re-works a chevy design. It's actually a nice car. And the new Cobalt SS is supposed to be a real rip-roarer for a FWD car.
Enough with this "rebadged" ****. Would you prefer they spent untold millions on making totally new vehicles when they don't have to? It's not like Opels are over here anywhere else. You say you want them to succeed, but yet you persist in deriding them for making smart moves (consolodating and re-using existing platforms to increase production efficiency and lower costs).
No, it's not. They are BOTH NUMMI cars, build to GM's spec, not Toyotas. So if anything, in that regard, you have it backwards.
The G5 kicks the snot out of the Cobalt (aesthetically). That's always the case when Pontiac re-works a chevy design. It's actually a nice car. And the new Cobalt SS is supposed to be a real rip-roarer for a FWD car.
Enough with this "rebadged" ****.
Would you prefer they spent untold millions on making totally new vehicles when they don't have to? It's not like Opels are over here anywhere else. You say you want them to succeed, but yet you persist in deriding them for making smart moves (consolodating and re-using existing platforms to increase production efficiency and lower costs).No, it's not. They are BOTH NUMMI cars, build to GM's spec, not Toyotas. So if anything, in that regard, you have it backwards.
Both the G5 and Cobalt look like a warmed over Cavilier. If I'm going to buy something insufferly boring, I'd rather spend a little more and get a Corolla. That car actually gets the details right and feels like a high quality piece. The cobalt SS has always been like a Neon S-r-t-4, awesome motor stuck in a crappy car.
The astra is a nice car, but a bad business decision with current exchange rates. If they made it in this country, GM would actually make a pretty nice profit. 0
As far as the Vibe, you are 100%, totally wrong. It is based on the Toyota corolla platform. Uses a Toyota engine, toyota trans, toyota suspension, toyota steering wheel, toyota switchgear, toyota key, toyota key fob, toyota plastic bits on the inside, toyota brakes, etc. About the only thing GM did was change the styling.
I love GM, but they are definetly lacking in the small car market right now. Also, all these great products they make abroad should be made in this country due to the weak dollar.
05-02-2008 | 10:25 AM
#28
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
You want to know what is wrong with GM today, go look at their small car offerings.
Chevy Aveo- extremely cheap korean made car, but I can go buy a kia for the same price with a better warranty 24/34mpg, not very impressive
Chevy Cobalt/rebadged Pontiac that looks like the cobalt-bland, cheap inside, Honda Civic is way more stylish, can't compare to the build quality of a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc.
Chevy Aveo- extremely cheap korean made car, but I can go buy a kia for the same price with a better warranty 24/34mpg, not very impressive
Chevy Cobalt/rebadged Pontiac that looks like the cobalt-bland, cheap inside, Honda Civic is way more stylish, can't compare to the build quality of a Corolla, Civic, Sentra, etc.
http://www.my3cents.com/search.cgi?criteria=Kia+Motors
http://www.carreview.com/cat/automob...8_1530crx.aspx
http://members.tripod.com/aiki_joe/i...ia/index2.html
As far as a cobalt, it looks just like a civic or a corolla, bland and cheap. Thats more in the eye of the beholder, personally I think the shifter location in the honda is downright retarded. As far as mpg, the cobalt is rated just under a base civic, but gets spanked by a corolla. Build quality? My fiancee has a 04 corolla le, build quality is ****. That thing has more wind noise and rattles at 50k than my 95z28 does at 150k (with prothane motor/tranny mounts and blown shocks). They put the steering wheel on off center from the factory and would not warranty it. The paint has orange peel, from the factory, guess what, no warranty. The speakers blew out after two years, and she doesnt even turn the radio up that loud.
05-02-2008 | 10:35 AM
#29
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Both the G5 and Cobalt look like a warmed over Cavilier. If I'm going to buy something insufferly boring, I'd rather spend a little more and get a Corolla. That car actually gets the details right and feels like a high quality piece. The cobalt SS has always been like a Neon S-r-t-4, awesome motor stuck in a crappy car.
As far as the Vibe, you are 100%, totally wrong. It is based on the Toyota corolla platform. Uses a Toyota engine, toyota trans, toyota suspension, toyota steering wheel, toyota switchgear, toyota key, toyota key fob, toyota plastic bits on the inside, toyota brakes, etc. About the only thing GM did was change the styling.
I'm not a Vibe fanboi - I hate crossovers, and 4-doors, and would not buy one, but it's not a pre-exiting solo toyota design that GM swapped front ends on, like people love to think.
05-02-2008 | 10:53 AM
#30
Thread Starter
TECH Veteran
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,231
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From: Phoenix, AZ Hometown: Aberdeen, SD
I'm wondering why you continue to post? You obviously don't like GM or its vehicles from the tone of your post. One negative comment after the next. You continually state that they are going down the tubes and point out GMs lackings, rarely ever a positive note. If I had your view I would join a board that shared you enthusiasm for what ever your favorite car brand is. It's obviously not GM.
I for one have been very pleased with my LSx equipped vehicles and I'm happy to see the improvements in the mid size cars. If they improved the small cars a bit more I think it would help GM's stability going into the future.
I for one have been very pleased with my LSx equipped vehicles and I'm happy to see the improvements in the mid size cars. If they improved the small cars a bit more I think it would help GM's stability going into the future.
I primarily love muscle cars and my favorites are from GM. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the company is a complete morass and how they've completely sunk their own ship.
As GM fans people shouldn't be blindly cheerleading every moronic thing they do to shoot themselves in the face. You should be critical of their management their product plans and if you're a shareholder demand action that actually works.
05-02-2008 | 11:02 AM
#31
x 100
05-02-2008 | 11:15 AM
#32
There's a big difference between not liking GM and not liking how GM is run.
I primarily love muscle cars and my favorites are from GM. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the company is a complete morass and how they've completely sunk their own ship.
As GM fans people shouldn't be blindly cheerleading every moronic thing they do to shoot themselves in the face. You should be critical of their management their product plans and if you're a shareholder demand action that actually works.
I primarily love muscle cars and my favorites are from GM. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the company is a complete morass and how they've completely sunk their own ship.
As GM fans people shouldn't be blindly cheerleading every moronic thing they do to shoot themselves in the face. You should be critical of their management their product plans and if you're a shareholder demand action that actually works.
05-02-2008 | 12:12 PM
#33
There's a big difference between not liking GM and not liking how GM is run.
As GM fans people shouldn't be blindly cheerleading every moronic thing they do to shoot themselves in the face. You should be critical of their management their product plans and if you're a shareholder demand action that actually works.
As GM fans people shouldn't be blindly cheerleading every moronic thing they do to shoot themselves in the face. You should be critical of their management their product plans and if you're a shareholder demand action that actually works.
Like most OEMs, they seem to have a hard time knowing what the market wants. That’s pretty much the same across the board; identifying your core competence and then growing it. Not that easy in the automotive industry.
Last edited by TT632; 05-02-2008 at 02:40 PM.
05-02-2008 | 01:00 PM
#34
12 Second Club
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,273
Likes: 0
From: Bucks County, Pa.
The Astra is a nice car, but a bad business decision with current exchange rates. If they made it in this country, GM would actually make a pretty nice profit.
I love GM, but they are definetly lacking in the small car market right now. Also, all these great products they make abroad should be made in this country due to the weak dollar.
I love GM, but they are definetly lacking in the small car market right now. Also, all these great products they make abroad should be made in this country due to the weak dollar.
The question still remains; would the costs of the tooling (itself, NOT the R&D for it), along with the TOTAL costs of the plant(s) to build them here, offset/override the losses from the exchange rate deficit (which yes, sadly will probably only keep getting worse)???
This is an honest, straightforward question, NO sarcasm/facetiousness involved, put out there for intelligent discussion ONLY.
05-02-2008 | 01:25 PM
#35
Banned
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 886
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The Domestic auto industry is beaten up by the press. Every Monday each sales associate, at our dealership, is beaten up. Military School and the Milatary were my two worst experiences. The car business is #3. In the car business you can sell 100 cars and be the hero of the dealership one month. Beginning of the next month you're a stupid lazy zero again.
That's a bunch of money GM has lost. I often posted about car sales and profits being down, locally and nationally. I recently figured out you can't have any threads closed if you don't make any new threads. GM was off 16.2 for April from April 2007. Trailblazer sales off 73% in April. Costs money to bring new products to the table. Creative accounting some people make fortunes from it.
I think that is what GM is doing!!
Jakes Dad
That's a bunch of money GM has lost. I often posted about car sales and profits being down, locally and nationally. I recently figured out you can't have any threads closed if you don't make any new threads. GM was off 16.2 for April from April 2007. Trailblazer sales off 73% in April. Costs money to bring new products to the table. Creative accounting some people make fortunes from it.
I think that is what GM is doing!! Jakes Dad
05-02-2008 | 01:34 PM
#36
I may not agree with you on much, but I DO agree with the above.
The question still remains; would the costs of the tooling (itself, NOT the R&D for it), along with the TOTAL costs of the plant(s) to build them here, offset/override the losses from the exchange rate deficit (which yes, sadly will probably only keep getting worse)???
This is an honest, straightforward question, NO sarcasm/facetiousness involved, put out there for intelligent discussion ONLY.
The question still remains; would the costs of the tooling (itself, NOT the R&D for it), along with the TOTAL costs of the plant(s) to build them here, offset/override the losses from the exchange rate deficit (which yes, sadly will probably only keep getting worse)???
This is an honest, straightforward question, NO sarcasm/facetiousness involved, put out there for intelligent discussion ONLY.
I think GM really missed the boat back in 1996-97. They could've built rebodied commodoes in north america with the ls1 v8, in a modern chassis, with all the good big sedan traits like a huge trunk, lots of space, big back seat, nice aussie designed interior, and maybe some badass american style like the G8. IMO the G8 could've been made 10 years ago.
05-02-2008 | 04:51 PM
#37
I had 184,000 miles on my 1984 Trans Am. Total amount of work, outside of normal maintenance was a $15 control module that died. It got wrecked and I had to get rid of it.
I rolled over 100,000 miles in my 1971 Olds 98 Royale Convertible. (and I even ran it dry of oil once and never harmed it in any way that I could tell) I sold it to move on to other cars and regret it to this day.
I had 90,000 on my 1988 GTA before I wrecked it and got rid of it - never had ANY problems with it.
148,000 miles on my 1990 Grand Prix SE. Tires, brake caliper, 1 axle-shaft, anda battery. Was totaled when a Ford Explorer rear-ended me.
156,000 miles on my 1991 Grand Prix SE. Battery, Alternator, Belt, and tires. Sold it to buy a 2003 Dodge Dakota R/T.
R/T has 36,000+ miles on it, zero trouble.
My '02 WS6 has 11,020 miles on it. Obviously no problems at all.
Other than the R/T and WS6, every car I bought was USED, with all the potential problems that entails, and yet, I never seemed to go wrong, or have expensive CRCs, and all of them were medium to high mileage, and note that 2 of them were from the "worst" perior (the 80s), and 2 were from the tail end of that period ('90 and '91).
You drank the Kool Aid and beleive the hype.
I rolled over 100,000 miles in my 1971 Olds 98 Royale Convertible. (and I even ran it dry of oil once and never harmed it in any way that I could tell) I sold it to move on to other cars and regret it to this day.
I had 90,000 on my 1988 GTA before I wrecked it and got rid of it - never had ANY problems with it.
148,000 miles on my 1990 Grand Prix SE. Tires, brake caliper, 1 axle-shaft, anda battery. Was totaled when a Ford Explorer rear-ended me.
156,000 miles on my 1991 Grand Prix SE. Battery, Alternator, Belt, and tires. Sold it to buy a 2003 Dodge Dakota R/T.
R/T has 36,000+ miles on it, zero trouble.
My '02 WS6 has 11,020 miles on it. Obviously no problems at all.
Other than the R/T and WS6, every car I bought was USED, with all the potential problems that entails, and yet, I never seemed to go wrong, or have expensive CRCs, and all of them were medium to high mileage, and note that 2 of them were from the "worst" perior (the 80s), and 2 were from the tail end of that period ('90 and '91).
You drank the Kool Aid and beleive the hype.
05-02-2008 | 05:05 PM
#38
My camaro has 220k miles on it with no end in sight. its had its *** beat almost every day of its existence, and has had its fair shots of nitrous. runs like a champ. the corvette, and cts v, which are in that list of cars, obviously shares a similar powerplant. i have no doubt a corvette can go 220k without an engine swap. i would bet alot of new gm vehicles would not have that problem. i work at a chevy dealership and i see alot of what comes in for service. very rare to have major major engine problems even at 150k, unless it was abuses. just saying what i see.
05-02-2008 | 05:33 PM
#39
05-03-2008 | 10:08 AM
#40
Banned
Joined: May 2007
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The bean counters at GM leave their offices in New York and go to a warm sandy area and have a meeting. One item is discussed. How many units are going to build next year? 12 million becomes the official number
Next year comes and for the year GM builds 10.2 million units. In the accounting world thats a vehicle loss of 1.8 million units. How much could GM have made if they had sold 12 million? The value of 1.8 millions units not built X the profit for each vehicle becomes a loss.
Jakes Dad
Next year comes and for the year GM builds 10.2 million units. In the accounting world thats a vehicle loss of 1.8 million units. How much could GM have made if they had sold 12 million? The value of 1.8 millions units not built X the profit for each vehicle becomes a loss.
Jakes Dad