Dan Neil - Pontiac G8
06-18-2008, 09:02 PM
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Dan Neil - Pontiac G8 A rejiggered product from Down Under, the G8 tries hard to please. Just don't compare it to the BMW 5-series.
By Dan Neil, RUMBLE SEAT
June 11, 2008
If you ever have occasion to share a drink with an Australian -- your luck is bound to run out, sooner or later -- do yourself a favor, mate. Don't offer to buy him a Foster's beer. Though Americans might think they are just being sociable, the lager made famous in the U.S. ad campaign as "Oostraalian fer beyr" is plague-ridden creek water, the downstream effluent of an upstream kangaroo petting zoo. Foster's makes Pabst Blue Ribbon seem like the scintillating golden cataract from Bacchus' boundless fountain.
Australians hate Foster's, just loathe it. Of course, offered a Foster's, the Aussie in question will be polite and probably only head-butt you. If she's a Sheila.
I bring this up because Australians and Americans -- one group loud and obnoxious, bred from criminals, the other group Australians -- have very different expectations of Australian-made products. The new-for-2008 Pontiac G8, for example, is a re-badged version of the Australia-built Holden Commodore, a reasonably quaffable V8-powered, rear-wheel-drive sedan based on GM's Zeta platform design (Holden is GM's Australian subsidiary). The G8 follows in the wide-track footprints of the now-discontinued Pontiac GTO, which was a badge job of the Holden Monaro.
To be sure, the Pontiac G8 executes hydrocarbons with style and élan. The sedan is available with a 3.6-liter, 256-hp V6 (paired with five-speed automatic), but the marquee powertrain is the V8 with the six-speed automatic (hence the name). The eight-can G8 I drove for a week was significantly solid feeling, all cold-rolled, sintered and cast-in-place. It was quick (zero to 60 in about 5.3 seconds). It could be prodded into an ugly and un-virtuous, tire-peeling tantrum with the traction-control turned off. It was fitted and kitted with high-grade plastics, dense rubberized dash materials and handsome two-tone perforated leather. For a GM car costing $29,310 ($31,845 with all the leather swaddling inside), the G8 is a notable value. It would be a shoo-in for Car of the Year, if the year were 2005.
But it's no BMW 5-series. You will see this preposterous comparison here and there in the automotive press -- words to the effect of "Pontiac G8: Bargain 5-series?" See, this is why you must control your intake of mood elevators before writing car reviews.
Australians would find this comparison wildly laughable, and usually they laugh only when someone is being kicked in the groin. To Australians, Holden is exactly where Chevrolet is in the U.S. marketplace -- mass-market, mid-price, working-class performance. In overall refinement, material quality, sophistication and -- most keenly -- ride and handling, the G8 isn't even on the same island-continent as the 5-series.
This is a common mistake people make, and when I say people, I mean GM. I remember Vice Chairman Bob Lutz going around calling the last-generation Pontiac Grand Prix an American BMW. As we know now, the Grand Prix was a BMW fighter as pointy wooden sticks are nuclear missiles. To invite such comparisons is to court disappointment. It's actually a disservice to the lesser product.
Spared the unfair comparisons to München schteeel, the G8 acquits itself very well. The cabin is big and comfortable, with excellent sight lines. The optional leather sport seats hold your keister nicely in place. The interior design has a nice cross-trainer sportiness to it, upscale if not exactly luxurious. I couldn't quite get the hang of the radio controls, though, which seem to have been randomized like Scrabble tiles.
Driven hard, the G8 wants to please, it really does. The engine leaps into the upper registers like a Gershwin score. The shift-able six-speed automatic -- with an engine-blipping program for smoother downshifts -- gives you lots of in-and-out corner control. I especially like the fact you can switch off traction control. When you get the car turned into a corner, you can get back on the throttle hard and, with the little grind-and-stutter of the limited-slip differential, power out of the corner with easily controllable rotation. There is, in fact, nothing wrong with this chassis and nothing a six-speed manual wouldn't make better. Look for a six-speed and a Corvette engine in the 2009 G8 GXP.
Steering feel is light and tight, with lots of lively feedback. The car delights in long, smooth sweepers spooled out in country lanes. The G8's body motions are well-damped and reasonably flat, although -- and this is where that extra $20,000 and BMW badge goes missing -- on uneven pavement the car wants to load and unload the rear suspension, getting a leetle bit floaty. I reckon when the more aggressively tuned GXP comes out, the laces of this shoe will be tightened.
Personally, I feel kind of sorry for the G8 -- or at least all the capable and talented people who brought it to our shores. This car has landed at an unpropitious moment in petrochemical history. I noted today, while I was standing at the pump putting $4.85-a-gallon hi-test in the galling muscle car, that I kind of felt like a guy standing at an ATM next to a bordello. The reek of monetized sin was upon me.
Surprisingly, though -- considering the flame-tipped bark and violent back-shoving of an angered G8 -- the thing gets really good gas mileage. I put my foot in it so often I almost lost my shoe, and the worst fuel-economy average I got was 16 mpg. This is undoubtedly thanks to Holden-GM's variable-displacement technology that shuts down four of the engine cylinders when loads are light.
Do I love it? Not really. I am pained that this car wasn't around three years ago. The G8 feels like hay that wasn't made while the sun shined. I think the supernumerary nostrils and front end design are small calamities. I could remodel this thing with a sledge hammer with good results. But the G8 is a fine performance car and a good price; it's just L8.
Final thoughts: Oostralian for "redneck"
By Dan Neil, RUMBLE SEAT
June 11, 2008
If you ever have occasion to share a drink with an Australian -- your luck is bound to run out, sooner or later -- do yourself a favor, mate. Don't offer to buy him a Foster's beer. Though Americans might think they are just being sociable, the lager made famous in the U.S. ad campaign as "Oostraalian fer beyr" is plague-ridden creek water, the downstream effluent of an upstream kangaroo petting zoo. Foster's makes Pabst Blue Ribbon seem like the scintillating golden cataract from Bacchus' boundless fountain.
Australians hate Foster's, just loathe it. Of course, offered a Foster's, the Aussie in question will be polite and probably only head-butt you. If she's a Sheila.
I bring this up because Australians and Americans -- one group loud and obnoxious, bred from criminals, the other group Australians -- have very different expectations of Australian-made products. The new-for-2008 Pontiac G8, for example, is a re-badged version of the Australia-built Holden Commodore, a reasonably quaffable V8-powered, rear-wheel-drive sedan based on GM's Zeta platform design (Holden is GM's Australian subsidiary). The G8 follows in the wide-track footprints of the now-discontinued Pontiac GTO, which was a badge job of the Holden Monaro.
To be sure, the Pontiac G8 executes hydrocarbons with style and élan. The sedan is available with a 3.6-liter, 256-hp V6 (paired with five-speed automatic), but the marquee powertrain is the V8 with the six-speed automatic (hence the name). The eight-can G8 I drove for a week was significantly solid feeling, all cold-rolled, sintered and cast-in-place. It was quick (zero to 60 in about 5.3 seconds). It could be prodded into an ugly and un-virtuous, tire-peeling tantrum with the traction-control turned off. It was fitted and kitted with high-grade plastics, dense rubberized dash materials and handsome two-tone perforated leather. For a GM car costing $29,310 ($31,845 with all the leather swaddling inside), the G8 is a notable value. It would be a shoo-in for Car of the Year, if the year were 2005.
But it's no BMW 5-series. You will see this preposterous comparison here and there in the automotive press -- words to the effect of "Pontiac G8: Bargain 5-series?" See, this is why you must control your intake of mood elevators before writing car reviews.
Australians would find this comparison wildly laughable, and usually they laugh only when someone is being kicked in the groin. To Australians, Holden is exactly where Chevrolet is in the U.S. marketplace -- mass-market, mid-price, working-class performance. In overall refinement, material quality, sophistication and -- most keenly -- ride and handling, the G8 isn't even on the same island-continent as the 5-series.
This is a common mistake people make, and when I say people, I mean GM. I remember Vice Chairman Bob Lutz going around calling the last-generation Pontiac Grand Prix an American BMW. As we know now, the Grand Prix was a BMW fighter as pointy wooden sticks are nuclear missiles. To invite such comparisons is to court disappointment. It's actually a disservice to the lesser product.
Spared the unfair comparisons to München schteeel, the G8 acquits itself very well. The cabin is big and comfortable, with excellent sight lines. The optional leather sport seats hold your keister nicely in place. The interior design has a nice cross-trainer sportiness to it, upscale if not exactly luxurious. I couldn't quite get the hang of the radio controls, though, which seem to have been randomized like Scrabble tiles.
Driven hard, the G8 wants to please, it really does. The engine leaps into the upper registers like a Gershwin score. The shift-able six-speed automatic -- with an engine-blipping program for smoother downshifts -- gives you lots of in-and-out corner control. I especially like the fact you can switch off traction control. When you get the car turned into a corner, you can get back on the throttle hard and, with the little grind-and-stutter of the limited-slip differential, power out of the corner with easily controllable rotation. There is, in fact, nothing wrong with this chassis and nothing a six-speed manual wouldn't make better. Look for a six-speed and a Corvette engine in the 2009 G8 GXP.
Steering feel is light and tight, with lots of lively feedback. The car delights in long, smooth sweepers spooled out in country lanes. The G8's body motions are well-damped and reasonably flat, although -- and this is where that extra $20,000 and BMW badge goes missing -- on uneven pavement the car wants to load and unload the rear suspension, getting a leetle bit floaty. I reckon when the more aggressively tuned GXP comes out, the laces of this shoe will be tightened.
Personally, I feel kind of sorry for the G8 -- or at least all the capable and talented people who brought it to our shores. This car has landed at an unpropitious moment in petrochemical history. I noted today, while I was standing at the pump putting $4.85-a-gallon hi-test in the galling muscle car, that I kind of felt like a guy standing at an ATM next to a bordello. The reek of monetized sin was upon me.
Surprisingly, though -- considering the flame-tipped bark and violent back-shoving of an angered G8 -- the thing gets really good gas mileage. I put my foot in it so often I almost lost my shoe, and the worst fuel-economy average I got was 16 mpg. This is undoubtedly thanks to Holden-GM's variable-displacement technology that shuts down four of the engine cylinders when loads are light.
Do I love it? Not really. I am pained that this car wasn't around three years ago. The G8 feels like hay that wasn't made while the sun shined. I think the supernumerary nostrils and front end design are small calamities. I could remodel this thing with a sledge hammer with good results. But the G8 is a fine performance car and a good price; it's just L8.
Final thoughts: Oostralian for "redneck"
06-18-2008, 09:23 PM
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OK that guy is down right annoying. Almost 6 paragraphs on the differences between Aussies and Americans?? He calls himself a car writer? I want my 10 minutes back. 
06-18-2008, 10:59 PM
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Is there any writer in America who DOES NOT hate American cars???????????
Dumb people out there listen to tool bags like those...so they go out and buy imports and oh no "american industry suffering" well no ****?
Dumb people out there listen to tool bags like those...so they go out and buy imports and oh no "american industry suffering" well no ****?
06-19-2008, 12:37 AM
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Of course is no bmw 5 series....the only reason they compare this car to it is because this car beats it in some stuff so GM makes it look good by comparing it to it.....Imagine an average person with 32k needs to buy a car,he is going to put more attention to the car that competes with a 50k car(not sure of the 5 series price lol) in some stuff.
Great marketing by pontiac
Great marketing by pontiac
06-19-2008, 12:52 AM
#6
It's not enough that he bashed but on his whole 'don't dare compare it to the BMW 5 series' rant
he FAILED to mention that this car also costs SUBSTANTIALLY less than the 5 series which most will agree that it DOES in fact compete with in many areas.
06-19-2008, 12:55 AM
#7
Of course is no bmw 5 series....the only reason they compare this car to it is because this car beats it in some stuff so GM makes it look good by comparing it to it.....Imagine an average person with 32k needs to buy a car,he is going to put more attention to the car that competes with a 50k car(not sure of the 5 series price lol) in some stuff.
Great marketing by pontiac
Great marketing by pontiac
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06-19-2008, 04:52 AM
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Of course is no bmw 5 series....the only reason they compare this car to it is because this car beats it in some stuff so GM makes it look good by comparing it to it.....Imagine an average person with 32k needs to buy a car,he is going to put more attention to the car that competes with a 50k car(not sure of the 5 series price lol) in some stuff.
Great marketing by pontiac
Great marketing by pontiac
I agree with the writer and have been saying what he is saying about GM's marketing with this car since before GM released it.
The BMW comparison isn't just poor marketing, it actually does the car a disservice, makes GM/Pontiac look stupid and the car is nowhere near a 5-Series in any way. He's also spot on about the reaction to that in Australia and the type of cars Holden makes. They are redneck (bogan) cars made to burn rubber and as common as Chevrolets, not BMW wannabes.
He's also correct that this car should have been here sooner. If GM was a forward thinking, fast moving company it would have been here in early 2006 within months of it's release Down Under. Holden worked on this car for almost seven years and spent a billion AUD on it and GM didn't know about it and couldn't put the plan into making selling it here before it was finished?
06-19-2008, 01:00 PM
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So he blatantly ignores all the places where the G8 outdoes the 5 series, offers no information on how or where EXACTLY it "falls short" (just opinion, echoed by others, likewise with nothing substantive), and displays absolutely ZERO aesthetic sensibilities, slams it time and again, and gives some back-handed "compliments" - and it's a "positive" review?
It would have been great to have it sooner, and would have been great in 2005. But what has really changed in the last 3 years? What is out there now that eclipses this IN IT'S CLASS and especially price range? How was it any different 3 years ago.
Fact is it's a kick *** car with kick *** looks. It has such potential it's not even funny, and offers a real aternative to the over the top Japanese Inc performance sedans (yes, Right Wheel Drive vs All Wheel Drive, but that's not the point).
This will stomp the false-charger, the 300C, the Lexus IS (I think that's their RWD sedan), the Infinity G35 Sedan (aka Skyline [non-GTR]), and more. Anything it can't beat stock or with slight tweaks, the CTS-V will take up the sword and continue the charge.
The Phoenix just needs to rise from the ashes and we'll be good. (If a coupe is coming, give it the badge, let time sort it out after that, it WON'T cost one single cent more. The Coupe 60 would make a killer spiritual successor to the Bandit.)
It would have been great to have it sooner, and would have been great in 2005. But what has really changed in the last 3 years? What is out there now that eclipses this IN IT'S CLASS and especially price range? How was it any different 3 years ago.
Fact is it's a kick *** car with kick *** looks. It has such potential it's not even funny, and offers a real aternative to the over the top Japanese Inc performance sedans (yes, Right Wheel Drive vs All Wheel Drive, but that's not the point).
This will stomp the false-charger, the 300C, the Lexus IS (I think that's their RWD sedan), the Infinity G35 Sedan (aka Skyline [non-GTR]), and more. Anything it can't beat stock or with slight tweaks, the CTS-V will take up the sword and continue the charge.
The Phoenix just needs to rise from the ashes and we'll be good. (If a coupe is coming, give it the badge, let time sort it out after that, it WON'T cost one single cent more. The Coupe 60 would make a killer spiritual successor to the Bandit.)
06-19-2008, 05:03 PM
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If you read the article it is a positive review of the car.
I agree with the writer and have been saying what he is saying about GM's marketing with this car since before GM released it.
The BMW comparison isn't just poor marketing, it actually does the car a disservice, makes GM/Pontiac look stupid and the car is nowhere near a 5-Series in any way. He's also spot on about the reaction to that in Australia and the type of cars Holden makes. They are redneck (bogan) cars made to burn rubber and as common as Chevrolets, not BMW wannabes.
He's also correct that this car should have been here sooner. If GM was a forward thinking, fast moving company it would have been here in early 2006 within months of it's release Down Under. Holden worked on this car for almost seven years and spent a billion AUD on it and GM didn't know about it and couldn't put the plan into making selling it here before it was finished?
I agree with the writer and have been saying what he is saying about GM's marketing with this car since before GM released it.
The BMW comparison isn't just poor marketing, it actually does the car a disservice, makes GM/Pontiac look stupid and the car is nowhere near a 5-Series in any way. He's also spot on about the reaction to that in Australia and the type of cars Holden makes. They are redneck (bogan) cars made to burn rubber and as common as Chevrolets, not BMW wannabes.
He's also correct that this car should have been here sooner. If GM was a forward thinking, fast moving company it would have been here in early 2006 within months of it's release Down Under. Holden worked on this car for almost seven years and spent a billion AUD on it and GM didn't know about it and couldn't put the plan into making selling it here before it was finished?
I really doubt is poor marketing....the car beats a awesome bmw 5 series in some aspects,which makes the car looks good so I don't see how is bad marketing.This marketing is aimed mostly at average person so I can see how this marketing could be successful.
I mean i could see why the commercials **** off people(bmw 5 series is a way better car overall and it shouldn't even be compared since their not really the same lol) but just the comparison and the g8 beating it in some aspects makes it look good which leads to sells....maybe Im wrong but thats what I think.
Last edited by El es one; 06-20-2008 at 01:18 AM.
06-19-2008, 09:34 PM
#12
I don't know what it is about BMW cars that make it the greatest car in the world just because it has a BMW badge on it. Everyone goes on about the interior on them and how great they are but when I have looked at them it seems like it is nothing special. Friends 97 3 series looks plain as everything else out there and when comparing it to my 98 Grand Prix, I wonder where these engineering marvels put the HUD in the car or the DIC. Oh wait it doesn't have a single one of those damn things, let alone the digital climate control. Co workers 5-series is the same thing, they have only just started doing HUD in their 5-series, and this is something GM has been doing since the late 80's, and these guys are the "luxurious" brand?
I won't deny a car like a M3 or M5 doesn't get me thinking about going and buying one, but when I hear about a local having to replace not just one but two MAF sensors for $1200 on his 01 M5, I think I will pass.
The G8 is no five series, because it doesn't cost an additional $20k. Slap an extra $20k in the car and you could call it a BMW competitor because then they could waste tons of money in something like the Idrive system that everyone hates because you can't figure out a damned thing. Even the guys on Top Gear thought it was stupid that to get the performance out of your car you had to figure out what you wanted for five minutes before you drive it, not just jump in, hit a button or switch or two and just go.
For being such a crappy car, I am surprised that even this guy enjoys the car, even with all of his bashing he does with anything remotely related to American shores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-xRvDpVtfw
I won't deny a car like a M3 or M5 doesn't get me thinking about going and buying one, but when I hear about a local having to replace not just one but two MAF sensors for $1200 on his 01 M5, I think I will pass.
The G8 is no five series, because it doesn't cost an additional $20k. Slap an extra $20k in the car and you could call it a BMW competitor because then they could waste tons of money in something like the Idrive system that everyone hates because you can't figure out a damned thing. Even the guys on Top Gear thought it was stupid that to get the performance out of your car you had to figure out what you wanted for five minutes before you drive it, not just jump in, hit a button or switch or two and just go.
For being such a crappy car, I am surprised that even this guy enjoys the car, even with all of his bashing he does with anything remotely related to American shores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-xRvDpVtfw
06-20-2008, 07:32 PM
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all you haters of BMW, go drive one before you rip on them. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for and after people in my family have had BMW's I can attest to their value. My mom has had 3 of them now and swears that is all she will ever buy. Their service is amazing, the overall build quality isn't even comparable to pontiacs. And they make a statement to people (which pontiac will never do in the foreseeable future) its "the ultimate driving machine"... its a luxury car. People that buy BMW's aren't buying them (usually) for 0-60 times or quarter mile times. They perform very well, ride extremely nice, are sophisticated, and look better than other cars on the road. Other car companies set them as the benchmark, look at the new honda accord... they might as well just copied the entire exterior from BMW. BMW's looks have been copied for years now by other car companies, especially by the japanese bc thats what they do best. Is it worth it to spend 15 or 20 grand more on?? to some people yes. most people on this site? absolutely not. We are not their target audience.
06-20-2008, 09:08 PM
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I have been driving my VE/G8 now for 35k miles/21 months and have to say it is the best car I have ever owned period. Sure it's no beemer but it is still represents excellent value for money.
It has loads of interior room, more than a 5 series I bet and an adequate seating and dash arrangement. I have gone back to the stock 19" rims and rubber and havn't changed the suspension setup at all and TBH it drives so nicely especially when touring on back roads.
Spend a few $$ and mod the 6.0L and you have a very quick big 4 door tourer, that will go toe to toe with and outshine the best of em.
A good G8 review here well worth a look IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInLI...eature=related
cheers
It has loads of interior room, more than a 5 series I bet and an adequate seating and dash arrangement. I have gone back to the stock 19" rims and rubber and havn't changed the suspension setup at all and TBH it drives so nicely especially when touring on back roads.
Spend a few $$ and mod the 6.0L and you have a very quick big 4 door tourer, that will go toe to toe with and outshine the best of em.
A good G8 review here well worth a look IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInLI...eature=related
cheers
Last edited by SS Enforcer; 06-20-2008 at 09:19 PM.
06-20-2008, 10:32 PM
#16
06-21-2008, 01:41 AM
#17
Do they? 
There was a real problem happening with the E46 M3 engines back when they first came out. Those last generation 740s were full of issues as well.
I don't recall that many LSx motor failures at all and there were (are) FAR MORE of them out there.
There was a real problem happening with the E46 M3 engines back when they first came out. Those last generation 740s were full of issues as well.
I don't recall that many LSx motor failures at all and there were (are) FAR MORE of them out there.
06-21-2008, 01:53 AM
#18
Not all BMW drivers are surgeons or MIT Engineering graduates ya know.
Remember, never judge a book by it's cover and you simply cannot buy class.
06-21-2008, 02:48 PM
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Didn't I just hear about the TT V8 having overheating problems?
06-21-2008, 06:32 PM
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Just a note on that "they make a statement" or status thing that you seem to be alluding to...the statement that some people might hear is 'drug dealer' or '8th grade educated rap artist' just the same when they see someone driving a car like that.
Not all BMW drivers are surgeons or MIT Engineering graduates ya know.
Remember, never judge a book by it's cover and you simply cannot buy class.
Not all BMW drivers are surgeons or MIT Engineering graduates ya know.
Remember, never judge a book by it's cover and you simply cannot buy class.