LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Me too.





Exactly.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

LOL, that's what so many respond with too.
Funny, they hate and refuse to buy American cars yet when backed into a corner about not keeping their money here/being supportive enough they always come back with how they did buy an American car.
Real convenient LOL.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

Your negativity towards GM is amazing. Long before GM goes under, you will see Chrysler, Nissan, the 2nd tier Japanese manufacturers, and a few Korean companies go down. On the other hand many of these companies are subsidized. The largest or second largest (depending on whose #'s you believe) is not going under anytime soon.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

Hell, Ive been on the sidelines for 6 month. I'm buying GM out-right tomorrow morning.

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

when I speak of black monday, I'm referring to a 15%+ sell off in one day, which we haven't seen. In reality, the automakers aren't going to see brighter days for quite sometime. People won't spend money right now and definitely not in the foreseeable future, once people start spending again then the automakers will benefit. I personally believe that day is several years off, but I hope i'm wrong

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

People have every right to spend their hard earned money on what they believe is the best value for their money. GM hasn't given them the best value for their dollar, and people have noticed and have therefore gone elsewhere. GM finally seemed to of gotten the point, but is seems like it might of been too little too late.
Their fault, not ours.
I laugh when people (such as yourself) blame the consumers for the downfall of an American company rather than blame the management of that company. For years executives have been taken a piece of the pie for themselves regardless of how the company was doing. Now that the company is on the rocks the executives are finally taking severe pay cuts but it's a case of too little too late.
If anything I felt cheated by corporate greed for the last 15 years...not guilty that they aren't doing well enough to pad their pockets anymore.

This is like feeling sorry for the banks for screwing us in the *** with their poor decisions, while we are left as tax payers to pay for their mistakes. I think the ****-tards who run the banks, approved such practices and made their fortunes should be asked to forfeit EVERYTHING they made in the last 5 years. If we are getting fucked in the *** for their mistakes, the head hanchoes should also feel the pain.

rant over!

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

That will be either be one of the 10 worst stock buys you've ever made or it will be THE ABSOLUTE SMARTEST FINANCIAL MOVE you will make during your lifetime.
That stock probably has a better shot at seeing $12.00 a share again than it does at seeing $2.00.
Though after this week's market crashings, and seeing THREE jet airplanes flying into huge U.S. landmarks 7 years ago, I'm convinced that anything is possible.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

If your going to buy an import, Honda would be the one to buy as they provide more American jobs per vehicle built then ony of the other Foreign manufacturers. Toyota is 3rd down list. Any way, non of them compare to the amount of jobs that GM provides.


Yeh! TT632 owns GM, A-plan for everyone and direct sales if you don't want to go through the dealer!

What we need is more American cars and less imports to help "Our" job market, not theirs. The trade imbalance has existed for too long!

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

From a consumerism/pure capitalistic point of view you are absolutely correct.
But now let me ask you this, if someone told you that not buying a GM car would put you, your family and all of your friends out of work and without medical care and a military to protect you within 5 years would you still stand by those principals? Is that best value for your dollar (which by they way is EXACTLY what GM has given ME over the last 8 years) ideology really so important to you that you'd risk that much to maintain it?
The "alleged" sacrifice in buying a GM/Ford vehicle is really that bad that it's worth losing so much more in the long run?

Quote me on this one please...if GM and/or Ford claim bankruptcy in the next few months (or ever), YOUR life/lifestyle as you now know it WILL be adversely affected by it, I can almost guaranty you this.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

x 100

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

I see the argument of buying toyota's throughout the late 90's and earlier 2000's but its simply not the case that they make a better car now. People still hold them responsible for heavily investing in SUV's/trucks that get bad MPG and they have every right to.... however, don't complain to me about sending jobs overseas when nobody is buying american (given that some things you just can't buy that say "made in the USA").

chaman

iTrader: (5)

I want them to recover too but they do everything possible to fail....I wont be surprised if GM goes for bankruptcy in the next 2-3 years.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

But you can choose to support the companies that provides us with the most and best jobs. Not a whole lot you can do about products that arent made here any longer ala cheap Chinese goods.


And your point is? There is no Corporate(government) greed in a Chinese or Japanese company? The Japanese manipulate the Dollar to keep their products affordable as do the Chinese. If we pulled that crap to get products into their "protected market" they would not allow it to happen. The Chinese send us products that are not fit for consumption....No greed there!!! Were so bad and they are so great is the arguement that you keep repeating. You wouldn't be on this board and drive a truck if you didn't think that GM had good products.


.

They won't for the successes I pointed out in my previous post.



I'll add this: If Toyota went under today..it would benefit the American economy.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

True. But let us not forget that (on a smaller scale) Toyota, Nissan and even Honda ALSO invested in large, fuel inefficient trucks as well.
So GM must've been at least near the correct path at one point if even the almighty Toyota started spewing out large V8 SUVs as well, right?

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I can't argue too much with that one.

TriShield

I'm not being negative, this is reality. GM has managed itself into an empire sized hole it cannot get out of without something major happening.

TriShield

Given GM's massive liabilities bankruptcy is the best option for them, if done soon and correctly the company could be restructured to be vastly more competitive.

The problem is GM's leadership is not going to file. The longer they wait the more it's going to hurt the company and the harder it will be for GM to recover. By that time they will all bail with their golden parachutes and leave a gigantic mess behind.

TriShield

Automaker: No bankruptcy; auto market may see ‘outright collapse’



NEW YORK - A person with knowledge of General Motors’ plans said Friday that the company is likely to announce more production cuts and possible plant closures as early as next week. The person did not want to be identified because plans are not finalized.

GM has said previously it would make cuts in engine, transmission and metal stamping operations to correspond with four pickup truck and sport utility vehicle plant closures announced in June.

Separately, Ford Motor Co said on Friday that Chief Financial Officer Don Leclair will retire effective November 1 and be replaced by the executive credited with leading the turnaround of its European operations.

Shares of GM hit their lowest price since 1949 in the opening minutes of trading on wall Street Friday as financial turmoil and a weakening global auto market heightened worries that the automaker may be unable to pull out of its nosedive before it runs out of cash.

The company’s shares lost nearly one-third of their value Thursday, plunging to their lowest level in more than 58 years, after Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services said the automaker’s credit could fall further into junk status, making it even tougher to borrow money.

The drop marked the first time GM shares hit the $4 mark since Nov. 16, 1949, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices at the University of Chicago.

GM issued a statement Friday saying that while it faces “unprecedented challenges” related to the ongoing problems in the financial markets and weakening economies across the globe, it still doesn’t consider bankruptcy protection as an option.

“Bankruptcy would not be in the interests of our employees, stockholders, suppliers or customers, and we believe speculation about a possible filing is exaggerated and unconstructive,” GM said.

David Healy, analyst for Burnham Securities, called S&P’s GM warning “shooting at the life boats.” But given the perilous credit situation, he added the best step for the automaker is to conserve liquidity and focus on its most important model changes.

It’s time to “keep their powder dry,” he said.

“They’re limited on what they can borrow anyway,” Healy said. “They have some liquidity. They have some contractual borrowing power from the banks, which doesn’t depend on ratings. They also have some assets they can sell.”

GM announced a plan in July that calls for cutting $10 billion in costs and raising another $5 billion through asset sales and borrowing through 2009.

The Detroit automaker had $21 billion in cash and $5 billion available through credit lines at the end of June for total liquidity of $26 billion, but it has been burning through cash at a pace of more than $1 billion a month and needs about $11 billion to $14 billion on hand to keep operating.

GM shares plummeted $2.15, or 31.1 percent, to close Thursday at $4.76 after falling as low as $4.65 — the automaker’s lowest trade since March 15, 1950, when the Korean War was three months away from beginning and gasoline cost 27 cents a gallon.

Ford’s stock price fell 58 cents, or 21.8 percent, Thursday to close at $2.08. It had fallen as low as $2.03 earlier in the session, it’s lowest price since June 1, 1983. Friday morning, Ford shares rose 27 cents, or 13 percent, to $2.35, after initially dropping to $2.05.

Analysts have voiced concerns that the ongoing slump in U.S. vehicle sales could last longer than they previously expected and could spread to other parts of the world, particularly Europe.

U.S. auto sales are down 13 percent through September compared with the same period of 2007, and J.D. Power and Associates on Thursday reduced its sales projections. It now expects U.S. new vehicle sales to total 13.6 million this year and 13.2 million in 2009, down from 16.1 million units in 2007.

Overseas sales in growing markets like Russia and South America been a bright spot for GM as U.S. sales slumped. GM said Thursday, however, that sales of its Opel and Vauxhall brands dropped more than 6 percent in Europe during the first nine months of the year — a sign that the downturn is hitting economies globally and taking worldwide auto sales down with it.

The rapid growth of auto sales in China, the world’s second-largest auto market after the United States, also has slowed sharply.

In addition, the three-week ban on short selling some stocks — including GM and Ford — expired late Wednesday. Short selling involves borrowing a company’s shares, selling them, and then buying them back when the stock falls and returning them to the lender. The practice allows investors to profit from the decline in a stock’s value.

Healy said it’s possible that the expiration of the short-sell ban hurt the automakers’ stocks, though there is no way to know for sure.

“Both stocks have been favorites of the short-sellers” he said. “These are volatile stocks. They go down 10 percent when the market goes down 5 percent, and vice versa.”

Shares of GM have withered since peaking near $94 in 1999 and 2000, and they’re down 88 percent from their 52-week high of $43.20 set a year ago Sunday.

The precipitous drop in GM’s market capitalization — $2.7 billion at Thursday’s close — makes a takeover conceivable, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.

“Absolutely,” he said when asked about the possibility. “Except for one thing: lots of debt. And most people are very reluctant. It’s not just the current equity, it’s the debt that you have to absorb at the same time.”

At the end of June, GM reported more than $32 billion in long-term debt, and since then it has exercised $3.5 billion of a $4.5 billion line of credit.

~JOSHUA

iTrader: (92)

Yeah, but Toyota hasn't been paying pensions to long time U.S workers like the Big 3 have.... let Toyota pay the pensions to good American workers for decades like GM and look at their shitty "warchest" then.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler were the best thing to happen long before that Jap company..... and long before Pearl Harbor.

I'll never buy an Asian car, new or used as long as I live.... and my family is the same way.

I get sick when I see Army or Marine stickers on a foreign cars driving down the road..... I'm sure they are great people, but are just as ******* stupid as a door ****!!! It makes me sick even more than seeing the damned car in the first place.

The U.S. congress should put the same punitive tariffs of the foreign cars just like the Jap/China market does with ours.... do you know it costs almost $100,000 for a BASE Corvette in Japan?

To hell with everybody consuming foreign crap, I get sick every time I see a China tag and no other (even if more expensive) U.S. manufactured item to choose from.

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

That an extreme pessimistic view on the situation that would not happen. The automotive industry is a huge industry in this country but to link it with this country's survival is purely exagerative. Our collective ideology IS very important to me and all of us. It is what we base our freedom on.


Not interested in playing the "what if" games. That's an endless circle that obviously will lead nowhere
And if your into guarantee's than u know little if you think everyone in this country stands to suffer from the collapse of GM. I can guarantee you if one or more of the big three do unfortunately fail than some industries will favor from it. But please don't make the mistake in thinking that's what I want to happen. I'm doing fine as it is and have no need to profit from anything negative happening to OUR country.


The international successes and failures of the auto industry and the subsequent impact on our economies or vice versa has been delegated by our governments. To compare import brands and their successes, to american brands and their failures you must include the governments as well.
GM has had one hand tied behind their back in competing for market share in some countries, that isn't GM's fault it's our government's. Does that lift blame on GM for their current status? No it doesn't.
And WE ALL felt cheated by GM's greed. I'm not saying there isn't greed in other companies but were talking about GM here. I'm not claim that everyone else are saint's. But this is a company that we associate ourselves with so your damn right as a consumer I will feel more cheated and hurt by their greed than by Toyota's or others.


If by reading my posts you drew that I claim that GM has NEVER had any good products then I suggest you reread my posts. And as previously stated in other threads where MY loyalty came into question, from the time I started driving I have bought and owned ONLY GM vehicles because they were what I found best for MY needs and purposes. So far I have not had the need too shop for minivans, compacts, sedans, luxary, sub-compacts or mid-size utility vehicles or believe me I would have most likely gone elsewhere.

My cars and reasons for buying them include:
GMC Typhoon = no competition(badass car)
Chevy Colorado = best bang for the buck in small trucks
02' Chevy malibu = inhereted family beater
GMC Sierra = best truck, best drivetrain platform for mods for the price.

Three of the four vehicles are trucks, something GM knows well, the other one was pretty much a donation and having used it I know why that car is passed around.