found one more restriction on the 2009 V
01-02-2009, 01:40 PM
#21
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Yes, I know the ins & outs of the LSA - having spent considerable time with it.
A few tidbits - if someone starts making claims about anything over about 5hp with an exhaust system - raise the BS flag. Same goes for the induction systems (as dyno results above show). Now if sound increase is what your after, go for it. Just don't expect power to come along from changes to these systems.
Obviously, with SC, increasing boost is shortest path to power. If you look at the differences between LS9 & LSA, these are the differences required to maintain durability for a 100K powertrain warranty. If you are willing to 'own' the engine, there is obviously room to grow. How much is dependant on budget and willingness to change supporting systems for higher power levels.
A few tidbits - if someone starts making claims about anything over about 5hp with an exhaust system - raise the BS flag. Same goes for the induction systems (as dyno results above show). Now if sound increase is what your after, go for it. Just don't expect power to come along from changes to these systems.
Obviously, with SC, increasing boost is shortest path to power. If you look at the differences between LS9 & LSA, these are the differences required to maintain durability for a 100K powertrain warranty. If you are willing to 'own' the engine, there is obviously room to grow. How much is dependant on budget and willingness to change supporting systems for higher power levels.
01-02-2009, 01:54 PM
#23
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Nope, not part of the warranty police.
Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM and being an enthusiast, I can understand the desire to modify and pursue increased power.
Having said that, I do have a few strongly held views with regard to modifying your ride:
I object to dealers that void your entire warranty just because you modified your powertrain. Having a window switch issue has nothing to do with what was done with your powertrain.
However, I also object to those that modify their engines to power levels beyond what was validated and expecting the OEM's to cover failures related to this modification. The LSA is factory rated @ 556HP with a 5 year 100K warranty, does it make sense for GM to cover it for this duration if power has been increased 10%, 20% or more?
As I stated before, with a SC engine increasing the boost will obviously lead to more power. But this comes with a cost of operating the engine beyond what was designed in and validated for the OEM warranty. If you are comfortable owning your engine, put the pedal down and power up! If you operate the engine within sensible limits, you can operate at increased power levels without drastically reduced durability - but there will always be some level of decrease (a candle that burns twice as bright....).
Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM and being an enthusiast, I can understand the desire to modify and pursue increased power.
Having said that, I do have a few strongly held views with regard to modifying your ride:
I object to dealers that void your entire warranty just because you modified your powertrain. Having a window switch issue has nothing to do with what was done with your powertrain.
However, I also object to those that modify their engines to power levels beyond what was validated and expecting the OEM's to cover failures related to this modification. The LSA is factory rated @ 556HP with a 5 year 100K warranty, does it make sense for GM to cover it for this duration if power has been increased 10%, 20% or more?
As I stated before, with a SC engine increasing the boost will obviously lead to more power. But this comes with a cost of operating the engine beyond what was designed in and validated for the OEM warranty. If you are comfortable owning your engine, put the pedal down and power up! If you operate the engine within sensible limits, you can operate at increased power levels without drastically reduced durability - but there will always be some level of decrease (a candle that burns twice as bright....).
01-03-2009, 09:20 AM
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Something tells me you don't know what Your talking about. Entertaining though.
01-03-2009, 11:59 AM
#28
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You don't have to increase boost to make more power. Even lowering boost on an OE setup can result in more power. Peak horsepower is not the only player either.
Something tells me you don't know what Your talking about. Entertaining though.
Something tells me you don't know what Your talking about. Entertaining though.
And by power I am refering to total power under the curve, not just peak.
You are correct though; I am sure my background does not allow me to fully understand what I am talking about. I'll just sit back and enjoy the banter from the 'experts'.
01-03-2009, 12:23 PM
#29
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increased cylinder pressure (at the correct crank angle) is what makes more power. So if you are at the knock limit (from spark) and increase cylinder pressure (boost) you will net more power. If you are so knock sensitive that reducing boost pressure allows significant increase in spark timing, yes, you might see an increase in cylinder pressure. Pretty fine line though.... Unless you have really crappy mixture motion and poor spark travel, an increase in boost will result in an increase in power.
And by power i am refering to total power under the curve, not just peak.
You are correct though; i am sure my background does not allow me to fully understand what i am talking about. I'll just sit back and enjoy the banter from the 'experts'.
And by power i am refering to total power under the curve, not just peak.
You are correct though; i am sure my background does not allow me to fully understand what i am talking about. I'll just sit back and enjoy the banter from the 'experts'.
lmao!!
01-03-2009, 03:49 PM
#30
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Nope, not part of the warranty police.
Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM and being an enthusiast, I can understand the desire to modify and pursue increased power.
Having said that, I do have a few strongly held views with regard to modifying your ride:
I object to dealers that void your entire warranty just because you modified your powertrain. Having a window switch issue has nothing to do with what was done with your powertrain.
However, I also object to those that modify their engines to power levels beyond what was validated and expecting the OEM's to cover failures related to this modification. The LSA is factory rated @ 556HP with a 5 year 100K warranty, does it make sense for GM to cover it for this duration if power has been increased 10%, 20% or more?
As I stated before, with a SC engine increasing the boost will obviously lead to more power. But this comes with a cost of operating the engine beyond what was designed in and validated for the OEM warranty. If you are comfortable owning your engine, put the pedal down and power up! If you operate the engine within sensible limits, you can operate at increased power levels without drastically reduced durability - but there will always be some level of decrease (a candle that burns twice as bright....).
Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM and being an enthusiast, I can understand the desire to modify and pursue increased power.
Having said that, I do have a few strongly held views with regard to modifying your ride:
I object to dealers that void your entire warranty just because you modified your powertrain. Having a window switch issue has nothing to do with what was done with your powertrain.
However, I also object to those that modify their engines to power levels beyond what was validated and expecting the OEM's to cover failures related to this modification. The LSA is factory rated @ 556HP with a 5 year 100K warranty, does it make sense for GM to cover it for this duration if power has been increased 10%, 20% or more?
As I stated before, with a SC engine increasing the boost will obviously lead to more power. But this comes with a cost of operating the engine beyond what was designed in and validated for the OEM warranty. If you are comfortable owning your engine, put the pedal down and power up! If you operate the engine within sensible limits, you can operate at increased power levels without drastically reduced durability - but there will always be some level of decrease (a candle that burns twice as bright....).
I love my warranty! I had 3 T-56 rebuilds in 5k mils on my C5 Z06 last year......no questions asked.........I love GM.......
01-03-2009, 05:16 PM
#31
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If your adding more heat along with the boost eventually you'll be off the compressor's most efficient area and not gaining anything with more boost but just adding heat which will decrease power. Depending on the application stalling compessor could end with compressor parts in the engine.
With your resources you should backing up your key board theories with some visual aids.
With your resources you should backing up your key board theories with some visual aids.
Increased cylinder pressure (at the correct crank angle) is what makes more power. So if you are at the knock limit (from spark) and increase cylinder pressure (boost) you will net more power. If you are so knock sensitive that reducing boost pressure allows significant increase in spark timing, yes, you might see an increase in cylinder pressure. Pretty fine line though.... unless you have really crappy mixture motion and poor spark travel, an increase in boost will result in an increase in power.
And by power I am refering to total power under the curve, not just peak.
You are correct though; I am sure my background does not allow me to fully understand what I am talking about. I'll just sit back and enjoy the banter from the 'experts'.
And by power I am refering to total power under the curve, not just peak.
You are correct though; I am sure my background does not allow me to fully understand what I am talking about. I'll just sit back and enjoy the banter from the 'experts'.
01-03-2009, 11:20 PM
#32
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Sorry, Norm, I should be more specific. When I speak of boost increase, I am speaking of density ratio increase (not pressure ratio increase).
So yes, if you increase pressure ratio, but adiabatic efficiency of the blower increases temperature to such an extent that density ratio drops, your will not make more power (less power if additional power to drive blower is not made up for by increased power).
To complicate it more, you also have to factor in the efficiency of the intercooler (if so equiped). More boost will always mean more heat (unless blower is changed). Intercoolers also create a pressure drop across the heat exchanger. Getting the correct 'balance' of pressure drop to temperature drop requires effort to do correctly.
If you want to make it real simple, spray face of the ICHE (intercooler heat exchanger) with nitrous when under boost. Density ratio will increase and power will go up. No other changes required.
Speed limits for superchargers are usually dictated by rpm limits of componants more so than compressor stall (like a turbocharger). Also, adiabatic efficiency of the blower will start to fall off as blower speed increases. Which leads to....another reason for the 2300 blower on the LS9 vs. the 1900 blower on the LSA. Running a higher boost level with the 2300 requires less rpm (and better adiabatic efficiency) than the same boost level with the 1900. Both are 6.2L engines, but differences are what was deemed neccesary to go from 556hp to 638hp and maintain required durability for 5 year 100k warranty.
So yes, if you increase pressure ratio, but adiabatic efficiency of the blower increases temperature to such an extent that density ratio drops, your will not make more power (less power if additional power to drive blower is not made up for by increased power).
To complicate it more, you also have to factor in the efficiency of the intercooler (if so equiped). More boost will always mean more heat (unless blower is changed). Intercoolers also create a pressure drop across the heat exchanger. Getting the correct 'balance' of pressure drop to temperature drop requires effort to do correctly.
If you want to make it real simple, spray face of the ICHE (intercooler heat exchanger) with nitrous when under boost. Density ratio will increase and power will go up. No other changes required.
Speed limits for superchargers are usually dictated by rpm limits of componants more so than compressor stall (like a turbocharger). Also, adiabatic efficiency of the blower will start to fall off as blower speed increases. Which leads to....another reason for the 2300 blower on the LS9 vs. the 1900 blower on the LSA. Running a higher boost level with the 2300 requires less rpm (and better adiabatic efficiency) than the same boost level with the 1900. Both are 6.2L engines, but differences are what was deemed neccesary to go from 556hp to 638hp and maintain required durability for 5 year 100k warranty.
01-04-2009, 12:40 PM
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01-04-2009, 12:54 PM
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As you can see I just joined this month so I know nothing. (If you believe that, I have a nice bridge to sell you in Iraq). (Followed by on-liner from resume.) I am one of the original posters on this board from over 10 years ago and have owned LSx motors since inception. They weren't even making anything after-market for these motors yet. Too bad I moved so I don't have access to my old email and have no idea what that password was.
Tony, can you break out some pictures from back in the day of el es Juan?
01-04-2009, 12:55 PM
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01-04-2009, 01:00 PM
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Isn't the same concept behind a CAI? To lower the temps of air going into the engine? I'm not saying its a high horsepower additive, but probably offers more than racing stickers do.
01-04-2009, 02:41 PM
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Rice or redneck it up however you want I guess. It's good for a laugh, no matter how much power you think it adds. Next we'll be adding the weed blower to the intake again.
01-04-2009, 04:50 PM
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Personally if you think spraying the intercooler is rice than your stupid. On the street yeah thats rice but on the track on a hot day, the spray can net a lot of extra hp whether you believe it does or not. All its doing is making the intercooler more efficient. Whats so rice or redneck about that? Why do race cars ice there intercoolers? Why do they ice the fuel? Because they think it looks cool? I suppose you think all power adders are rice? I guess nitrous is rice and my cold air intake is redneck because all the fast and the furious cars have it too?