skills316

Is anyone out there road racing a V1? I am curious what kind of mods work well for a road course. I have some of the basics covered. Goodridge lines, Hawk HP+ pads, new Brembo rotors, BMR trailing arms and toe rods, Z06 clutch, K&N intake, Corsa exhaust. Any input would be great before I spend $$$ on crap that doesn't help.

jerrycecco

Are you me? lol....
I have done all of the above EXCEPT corsa I did the 2.5 x pipe and magnaflow mufflers, I have not done the toe rods either, did they make a difference?
I also have W4M chip and ported and polished TB.
My currently running the Dunlap Star Spec tire (reviewed by C&D last year)

My next items are tires (R?) and coilovers...I don't know which first.

my email: jerrycecco@gmail.com

apexman

Doing track events at all yet? I would suggest changing the brake fluid to a hi temp brake fluid (Motul 600 etc) and taking it to the road coarse as it is. Best thing you can do is seat time. Then, as you get into it, maybe tires. This way, you can evaluate the car as close to stock as possible and figure out what you like about it and what you may be able to fix with maybe just an alignment (understeer).

tweeter81

The must haves for road racing:

1) Short-throw shifter - I like my UUC
2) FG2 Shocks or QA1 shocks
3) Hotchkis swaybars
4) R-compound tires

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

The first mod that needs to take place ... remove about 1000 lbs.

tweeter81

The world we live in will never allow for such low curb weights anymore. I for one think it is cool to have a luxury sedan that can run with many cars that are much lighter, or seem to be more suited to the track (on the surface).

Modern-day technology has made a lot of the weight of these heavy cars much more insignificant. The weight distribution is still great, even though the car weighs 3850 lbs. Our chasis is fantastic. Evidence of this is the Nurburgring time of 8:19 that was completed by a 1st Gen V prototype over 6 years ago, and the current Camaro SS model could only manage to run the Ring in 8:19 with 26 more HP, 100 lbs less curb weight, and better tires. That right there is proof that our cars are ultra-capable on the track, weight be damned.

With a simple wheel swap and rotor swap you can shave significant unsprung weight from the outer corners of the car. The best part about that is those mods are something a lot of roadracers do anyway, but you end up getting additional weight-saving benefits for relatively easy and cheap mods.

This wasn't a discussion about changing the car into something it's not, if you don't like CTS-Vs and what they are about, then don't ever drive one, but you don't know what you are missing and what it feels like to have the fastest, most rare sedan at any given track on any given weekend and surprise the hell out of everyone else there. It is a pretty cool feeling.

jerrycecco

which 1000 lbs part was that? lol.......
..removing 1000lbs on our V would make them track monsters....

hell losing 200 would change the V ALOT

jerrycecco@gmail.com

skills316

jerrycecco...I am not you.lol i havent gotten the BMR parts on the car yet. No hurry as we still have a foot of snow! I will let you know what I think.

Sounds like hotchkis is the way to go for sways. What size tires is everyone runnin for track tires. also, i am looking for another set of wheels for the track tires. any suggestions? i was thinking of getting some rashed up stockers. Thanks again, I appreciate the help!

lubelizard

iTrader: (5)

Flush the fluids, check the pads and tires for wear, check the alignment and wheel/tire balance, and take the car to a track day. You don't need to add anything to enjoy the car on track.

UnsafeAtAnySpd

Here's my setup and plans:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...als-build.html

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

Tweet is so right about weight. The 3500lb sedan is a thing of the past. Even the new Mustang and Camaro are heavy weights compared to their fore fathers.

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

For sure.

07CTS-V

iTrader: (6)

I run 245/40/18 R-Comps on the track. The shorter sidewalls help a little bit.

tweeter81

My dream track tire setup is 265/35zr18 racing slicks (like BFG R1s) on all 4 corners.

lubelizard

iTrader: (5)

Perhaps, only if the wheel width is enough to support that tire size. The "275 series on an 8.5" wheel" doesn't apply here.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

Which series are you going to be racing in? Have you already gotten your competition license, or when are you doing that? Make sure you understand all the requirements for the rollcage, and have a competent shop build the cage. Ask them for some references so you can check out their work in other cars to ensure they know what they're doing.

Yup.

But in just a couple more years you'll make a decision, right?

Honestly, I wouldn't put any of those things on a "must have" list. They're all "nice to haves", but the car is very capable even with stock equipment. IMO the only "must haves" would be better pads and brake fluid, and even those things only come into play for someone who has some experience and will be pushing the car harder.

Or Addco, or just the stock ones. You can buy my Hotchkis front buy (see the classifieds) and an Addco rear bar (which is the same size as the Hotchkis rear) and save yourself some good money over the Hotchkis setup.

Depending on what series you race in there may be a spec tire that's only available in specific sizes, so check into that.

Since I'm not road racing, I can run whatever I want at track events. My first set of R-compounds was 245/40-18s on a set of the optional GM Accessory wheels. Now I've got 275/35-18s on Team Dynamics 1.2s, which you can get on ebay or from Luke @ Lindsay. Since I'm local to Luke I got 'em from him, which saved me about $50 compared to the ebay price.

Bingo!

SilveradoSS500

I know Jerry and he knows his V stuff!

Yep, get the Hotchkis and go from there...

What size wheels are you running?

Well, you can either get some Toyo R888's or RA'1s...OR....get some Hoosier R6's which are around the same price. Just depends how crazy you want to go!

If you want to get even crazier, save up for some Penske coilovers. The old Moore performance drift CTSV ran Penske 8300 Triples which ended up costing them around 10k or so.

tweeter81

I agree that the car is perfectly capable in stock form, but from what the OP posted, it sounded like he has a good base to start from as far as mods are concerned and has a good idea what mods are best for the track and what effect each of them have on the car.

1) UUC Shifter - I'm going to go ahead and still say this is a must do mod. We all know how terrible the stock shifter was (and if you haven't experienced it, you are very lucky). During normal driving it was fairly hard to shift precisely and not miss/botch shifts with the stock piece, so I can't imagine how hard and frustrating it would be in a track situation where you are basically shifting as fast as you can.

2) - 4) All of these mods are items that will allow someone pushing their car on the track to feel MUCH more comfortable. The upgraded shocks are more suited to the track, the swaybars (doesn't matter which brand) lessen the body roll by about 60%-80%, and the r-compounds allow you to feel more stable in the corners and put the power down earlier out of turns because of the huge increase in grip over street tires.

While the above mods may not meet your criteria for must have mods, in my opinion, if you are going to track your car more than once per year or plan to actually compete in time trials or whatever, you really need to do the mods that make the car feel like it's on rails. Because, anybody who races or tracks their car knows that the speed of your car on the track is DIRECTLY attributable to your comfort level in the car at speed. If you keep the stock tires and sways (and ride height) and the car understeers and pushes really bad through most corners, you aren't going to have any confidence in the car and you will run slower times and not have nearly as much fun.

Just to reiterate, the mods I have listed aren't physically required to track the car, but they all make it feel much, much tighter and more capable, which in turn yields faster lap times via later braking, higher sustained G's in corners, eariler acceleration out of corners, and higher top speeds on long straights.

P.S. I want everyone to know that I'm not talking out of my *** on this either. I tracked the car in basically stock form (only mods at the time were: exhaust and CCW wheels with Toyo T1R tires) and it felt capable, but it was no comparison to how it feels when I track it now.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I started open tracking an F-car in 1999 and went W2W racing in in an F-car in 2006. I've instructed for 1/2 dozen local groups, one which provided C5 Z06s. I've probably logged a thousand laps each at Motorsport Ranch in Cresson, Texas World Speedway and Texas Motorspeedway.

I learned how to build cars and how to drive cars while working with Lou and Louis Gigliotti (LG Motorsports) when they were campaigning a Trans AM Corvette and Worlld Challenge C5s. That experience was immeasurable in being able to build a quality car and then being able to diagnose handling issues and properly fix them.

What is your experience level?

Basically when you told me I needed to get some more experience, I chortled and decided to just back out and let you have your moment. But you are now just giving out bad information.

To be perfectly honest, your posts sound more like regurgitated words you learned by reading posts on the internet. Clues are using terms like "body roll" and "tighter". Gotta be specific.

Body roll is weight transfer and transfering weight is a good thing. Has to happen ... can't cheat physics and inertia. It needs to be controlled, but rolling over and taking a set is very important to low lap times. And its all about the whole lap time, not launching off a specific turn.

Tighter, to a chassis tuner, means the car won't turn at some point in a corner.

Any competent driver can adapt to quirky things like a loose or notchy shifter. Shifting is more about hand position and muscle memory than placing the stick in a gate. A good shifter reduces the need, granted. But its not a deal breaker on track. Drive and be fast in an FS car ... it'll change your mind.

Comfort on track is about balance. The more balanced the car feels, the harder it can be pushed. Using terms like "body roll" in terms of it being a generic bad thing is a sign of not really understanding the physics of what is occuring.

Body roll is a good thing as it transfers weight to the appropriate side and end of the car.

And brand makes all the difference because no two have the same roll rate. Bigger doesn't equate to better. If a vendor can't answer a roll rate question, they have just copied some one else's work.

Knowing all the data and specs is vital to making a car handle.

Spring rate, roll rate, instant center, CG, track width, camber gain, wheel leverage and even tire pressure all have to work together ... balance ... in order to maximize a car's ability to transfer comfort to the driver's ***.

And shocks allow suspension movement to either speed up or slow down depending upon driver preference, track conditions and/or terminal speed. They do nothing to effective rate other than dampen the rate's effect as the suspension goes through its range of motion.

You can mask anything by over compensating with something else, such as soft springs and big rate sway bars or stiff springs and thick wheel spacers. Even air pressure. If air pressure on all four corners get too far out of square, then some chassis development needs to take place. And granted, sometimes compromises have to be made. You just can't readily source exact roll rates to a very specific need. But spreading the compromise across several components will lessen the masking effect.

For instance, my V has a mid-corner off push at low speeds. High speed corners, it's OK. If I had unlimited funds and fully equipped machine shop at my disposal, I'd probably add 20-30lbs to the roll rate of the rear sway bar so that as the chassis rolls over, it would direct more effective weight to the front corner and off of the rear corner.

To mask it, I could add a pound or two of tire pressure to the rear. Rule of thumb is every single psi of tire pressure equates to ~10lbs of effective spring rate. Or I could add a 1/8" spacer to the front wheel. This moves the contact patch away from the chassis pivot poit by 1/8", increasing the lever effect on the spring and softening the effective spring rate.

Balance.

Low lap times are all about maintaining speed through transitional points on the track. Maintaining momentum will kill a point and shoot kind of driver each and everytime.

I'm not getting into a battle with you. I have clearly stated what I find questionable about your opinions and given specific, technical responses to what I think is bad information.

tweeter81

Sorry about the threadjack, but I had to respond to this crazyness!