Creative Steel Rear Toe rod group buy!
02-22-2014, 04:30 PM
#23
Man I had been waiting for these to come out, and I could have swore more guys were waiting for them as well.
Also some other have shown concerns about the longevity of the joints, so I found these http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp
And I will find out from Max what size the joints are so we know which boots to buy, as well as find out who manufactures the joints being used.
The boots are not necessary, just an added insurance to increase the life of the joints. They would be especially helpful for those who live in states that salt the roads.
Also some other have shown concerns about the longevity of the joints, so I found these http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp
And I will find out from Max what size the joints are so we know which boots to buy, as well as find out who manufactures the joints being used.
The boots are not necessary, just an added insurance to increase the life of the joints. They would be especially helpful for those who live in states that salt the roads.
Last edited by NIKDSC5; 02-22-2014 at 04:50 PM.
02-22-2014, 05:14 PM
#25
Logic maybe a little fuzzy there..... You paid what for the BMR's? Website is @ 279.95$ + Shipping (to me was 16.32$) so when I compare 296.27 to 255$ for these new and improved toe rods, I don't push the envelope and demand more from the supplier.
Plus, these are only optional. You can choose to run them or not and roll the dice on how long the joints will last. I'm sure with a little added attention to maintaining the joints the boots would not be all that necessary.
Just cave already and get in on this group buy! lol You can recoup some of the costs by selling your almost toasted BMR's!
Plus, these are only optional. You can choose to run them or not and roll the dice on how long the joints will last. I'm sure with a little added attention to maintaining the joints the boots would not be all that necessary.
Just cave already and get in on this group buy! lol You can recoup some of the costs by selling your almost toasted BMR's!
02-22-2014, 06:09 PM
#26
Logic maybe a little fuzzy there..... You paid what for the BMR's? Website is @ 279.95$ + Shipping (to me was 16.32$) so when I compare 296.27 to 255$ for these new and improved toe rods, I don't push the envelope and demand more from the supplier.
Plus, these are only optional. You can choose to run them or not and roll the dice on how long the joints will last. I'm sure with a little added attention to maintaining the joints the boots would not be all that necessary.
Just cave already and get in on this group buy! lol You can recoup some of the costs by selling your almost toasted BMR's!
Plus, these are only optional. You can choose to run them or not and roll the dice on how long the joints will last. I'm sure with a little added attention to maintaining the joints the boots would not be all that necessary.
Just cave already and get in on this group buy! lol You can recoup some of the costs by selling your almost toasted BMR's!
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 02-22-2014 at 07:22 PM.
02-22-2014, 06:29 PM
#27
That would be awesome no doubt! And I will await to see if Branski or others make better/lighter options. Until then I'm going with these as they are the best thing out. When something comes along better and it shaves +\- 6 pounds I will switch up and sell these. I hate doing things twice, but again with as much as I plan to track my car this summer, these are currently a no brainer.
02-23-2014, 08:55 AM
#28
I don't think you can compare Creative Steel with BMR and come to a wide-angle perspective on what toe rods should cost. I'm not interested in Creative Steel's toe rods. Although they're definitely better than my BMR rods in terms of adjustability, it's not a worthwhile upgrade. And they're incredibly heavy (3.5 lbs each). Banski toe rods are lighter, stronger, and easier to adjust because they use omega clamps and threaded collets instead of jam nuts. They also have optional, fitted dust boots ($19).
02-23-2014, 08:59 AM
#29
02-23-2014, 01:21 PM
#31
FormerVendor
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I don't think you can compare Creative Steel with BMR and come to a wide-angle perspective on what toe rods should cost. I'm not interested in Creative Steel's toe rods. Although they're definitely better than my BMR rods in terms of adjustability, it's not a worthwhile upgrade. And they're incredibly heavy (3.5 lbs each). Banski toe rods are lighter, stronger, and easier to adjust because they use omega clamps and threaded collets instead of jam nuts. They also have optional, fitted dust boots ($19).
What's your beef with jam nuts? The BMR's have jam nuts and you have those. I have a feeling that if we used Omega clamps and collets you say that they were unsafe, then post a few videos of car crashes saying that clamps and collets were at fault.(whether they were or not is irrelevant just like the videos that you posted in the greasable bolt thread).
I hope the guys at Banski are watching this thread. If they are, I hope that they really crunch the numbers to determine the "ROI" (return on investment) of the V-1 Toe Rod market. The market for these rods is not that big at any price point.
#1 It takes a certain amount of money to buy the raw materials, no matter who buys them... me, you or Banski.
#2 Shipping for the most part is another constant.
#3 It costs money to have the lights on, flush the toilet and have the trash hauled away. My neighbor won't let us plug in to his power, I'm not willing to **** in the woods behind the shop or dump my trash along side the road at night.
#4 At $255 shipped, these toe rods won't pay the wages for a welder/employee making $15 an hour. Which is the reason I do them myself, which also means I make less that $15 an hour while making them.
The V1 was never a car that got any support from the big aftermarket companies. Along the way a few small companies have stepped up to fill the void. Along the way, most of those small companies have closed their doors or moved on to other markets.
Congratulations Fuzzy, you are almost there. The last bit of sparkle I have for the V1 is almost gone.
What do you say Nik? Pull the plug?
02-23-2014, 02:31 PM
#33
I understand your frustrations. I spent several years in the powersports industry and it gets tiring dealing with the engineering types.
But, through the course of this conversation, a couple of valid points have been raised.
Not the jam nuts or the strength of your units, they look well built and frankly, off-road worthy as far as the size goes....nobody will be bending these. But if i'm going to the trouble of putting these on my car. it would be nice to know if your using the cheapo joints or a better quality piece because i have had issues with the cheaper ones in the past.
Also, the sealsit seals would be a very nice option that I don't think anyone would have a problem paying extra for if they were sized right, fit well and actually work.
Moving forward, the experienced gained through pounding your way through the V1 can be readily applied to other platforms so it, at the very least, gives you the tools you need to move forward. Would Camaro or vette toe rods be so much different than the V1's? Obviously not as Banski is considering the build. Do they need some competition? Probably.
Will there ever be a huge market for V1 stuff, no, but designing this stuff is probably the hardest part of the battle and you've already done that so there's no point in stopping now. Will the V1 ever become a car nobody wants? No...any car with RWD, 400hp and a straight drive will never go out of style and as they wear out, you will see new needs being derived for them and you stand at the fore front of understanding this car. Sub-frame connectors, tubular subframes, tubular control arms, strut tower braces, SHIFTER BASE....there is still some need here and again, figure this car out and figuring the next one out isn't so bad.
Also, as your V1 customers move on to other similar but newer cars, you have the opportunity to keep us as satisfied customers by expanding your product base. I think most everyone here (Fuzzy excluded but sometimes it pays to run some people off) are sure to tell our friends about your dedication to the products you sell and to customer service. Maybe its time to move into some V2 stuff?
Don't abandon us, use your niche to your advantage and grow from it.....
But, through the course of this conversation, a couple of valid points have been raised.
Not the jam nuts or the strength of your units, they look well built and frankly, off-road worthy as far as the size goes....nobody will be bending these. But if i'm going to the trouble of putting these on my car. it would be nice to know if your using the cheapo joints or a better quality piece because i have had issues with the cheaper ones in the past.
Also, the sealsit seals would be a very nice option that I don't think anyone would have a problem paying extra for if they were sized right, fit well and actually work.
Moving forward, the experienced gained through pounding your way through the V1 can be readily applied to other platforms so it, at the very least, gives you the tools you need to move forward. Would Camaro or vette toe rods be so much different than the V1's? Obviously not as Banski is considering the build. Do they need some competition? Probably.
Will there ever be a huge market for V1 stuff, no, but designing this stuff is probably the hardest part of the battle and you've already done that so there's no point in stopping now. Will the V1 ever become a car nobody wants? No...any car with RWD, 400hp and a straight drive will never go out of style and as they wear out, you will see new needs being derived for them and you stand at the fore front of understanding this car. Sub-frame connectors, tubular subframes, tubular control arms, strut tower braces, SHIFTER BASE....there is still some need here and again, figure this car out and figuring the next one out isn't so bad.
Also, as your V1 customers move on to other similar but newer cars, you have the opportunity to keep us as satisfied customers by expanding your product base. I think most everyone here (Fuzzy excluded but sometimes it pays to run some people off) are sure to tell our friends about your dedication to the products you sell and to customer service. Maybe its time to move into some V2 stuff?
Don't abandon us, use your niche to your advantage and grow from it.....
02-23-2014, 03:19 PM
#34
Creative steel is one of the few companies who has been here from the beginning and produced products that they have stood behind. Not many other companies have come to our community and not left shortly there after. For me this group buy just happened to be at the wrong time for me otherwise I would be all over it.
02-23-2014, 03:48 PM
#36
TECH Fanatic
Creative steel is one of the few companies who has been here from the beginning and produced products that they have stood behind. Not many other companies have come to our community and not left shortly there after. For me this group buy just happened to be at the wrong time for me otherwise I would be all over it.
02-24-2014, 11:03 AM
#38
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Newb question here. I'm not super familiar with suspension technology. What will my car benefit from these exactly? Improved handling? Traction? Or is this just a mod to get better alignment after lowering?
02-24-2014, 11:54 AM
#39
The stock toe rods are thin and will flex if when you push the car really hard which leads to inconsistent handling. Also, the stock joints will have a certain amount of play in them which is never good when you're looking for the last 5% of the cars handling capability.
02-24-2014, 02:36 PM
#40
update: The rods ends are QA1 3/4 Chromoly XM series rod ends.
They can be seen here:http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/c...oly-steel.html
Also, Creative steel will supply the dust boots if you opt for them, and they will just be charged at cost. So what ever the boots cost, just add them to the total of the rods, and they will be shipped to you along with the rods.
Edit: Also, if you are concerned about weight (and trying to shave as much as possible) you can swap the rod ends for aluminum ends, as well as the adjuster, as those are the two heaviest parts in the mix. This will be done post sale and on your own accord, as for general sale, Creative steel has opted toward the stronger/more durable Chromoly steel joints.