Hi,

My V isn't FI (yet) but tired of the stink from driving without cats. Anyone know of some good sites, or apps, that will allow route planning with E85 stations in mind? I'm good when it comes to work commutes and day trips in the state. Cross country or places I haven't been is what worries me.

There's a ton of info out there on the pro's and con's related to performance but not much when it comes to practicality of it.

'Worst' case I suppose I could drive around with both an E85 and 91/93 tune and a laptop and switch accordingly (or a spare ECU, which seems cheaper) but prefer not too.

Thanks

Edit : Found what I needed

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/route/

Eco Finder <- windows phone app alternative fuel locator

 

Nothing specific but you could look at forums where people routinely switch and support eachother like the Subaru and Evo forums. Something that is FI from the factory and has a big tuner base. I think you could find the map and location specific info there way easier than here.

 

Try www.GasBuddy.com The site is specifically for people to post prices of fuel. But by looking for the sale price, you'll know where to find it.

e85 is not as easy to find as you might think.

 

If you do any cross country I wouldn't use E85 anyways. It gets 30% less fuel economy. Which would put an LS6/2 into the teens nearly. That would suck. I had an E85 mix tune in my last car. And it was great for performance but I barely got 20mpg on a turbo 2.0 cobalt with the cruise control on, on the freeway, no traffic 65mph. It sucked. Trust me, traveling is better done with a 91/93 octanes tune. Unless you want to stop every 2 hours.

 

+1 E85 also changes traits depending on location in the country

 

My V right now gets about 20mpg highway driving, that's a very conservative estimate and rounded down from my last 1000mile trip. Worst case scenario going from my conservative 20mpg and a 30% sacrifice of fuel economy that would give me a 238 mile range which I can live with.

4 stops on a 16 hour trip doesn't sound too unreasonable and isn't different from what I do now. Stopping for lunch or dinner, bio, smoke, etc. will just have to be combined with a gas stop.

I'll check out the forums for stock FI cars, great idea and thanks.

Edit: Nick, that is true for all fuels. Some states offer E0 and others you are stuck with E10 being the standard, 93 is the standard premium in several states, others top out at 91.

 

I love how stopping to take a leak or crap turned into "bio" lol that is just way too polite for an online forum lol

 

Not worth the PITA for full conversion to E85. I would put the time, effort, and money into a well thought out meth system since you're going FI. You can always fill the tank 1/3 the way with E85 for when you plan on leaning on it.

 

I'm the guy who forgets to charge his phone, runs out of gas and still doesn't have a spare. The idea that at one point I will run out of meth is pretty reasonable, hence my bias towards E85.

I did just find out we switch to E70 during winter. That could nix the whole idea

 

Not always. It depends on your tune. Gasoline tunes for FI and hi compression engines tend to be a bit rich. That keeps the chamber cool, which helps prevent detonation.

E85 runs significantly cooler all on it's own. So you can tune it to run a bit leaner without any of those issues. I get about 20% fewer MPG with e85.

And some places are starting to sell E15, which is not recommended by anybody - except the people who sell it.

Can't do that. That would be about e55-e60'ish. The end result is that it would run lean. If you're going to run a mixture like that, you have to tune for it.

I built my car to run either pump gas or e85. All I have to do is flip a switch under the dash. Of course, I get less mileage on the e85. But it runs better on a hot day with e85. Smells good, too. And with the lower cost of e85, it costs me about the same per mile to run.

 

How did you manage the dual tune? I keep seeing references to a dual setup from 'tuned by frost' but his product page has nothing listed but normal ECU's and a bunch of cables.

Thanks

 

So you can't manage to refill a meth tank...but you're going to seamlessly retune your car on the fly? Sounds like you're already set on the idea so go ahead.

And no...1/3rd of a tank of E85 mixed with regular gas or E10 does not equal E55 or E60. The GN boys do it all the time.

 

Splitting hairs there. The point I was making is that on a road trip, E85 is not ideal. But yes depending on your build, you may get a different amount of fuel economy... But that is the case with everything.

OP- there aren't enough fuel stations with ethanol to make traveling easy. Some sounds have a bunch... Done don't have any. Eventually I'm going to run E85 in my car, but that's after a motor build and a procharger F-Trim. E85 is very boost friendly

Also, as DMM said 1/3 E85 and 2/3 petroleum is about 30% ethanol depending on the pump mixture... Here in California they mainly do E10-15ish.

I did E85 and 91 (10%e) mixed at 50/50 in my Cobalt SS... About 47%

 

I can manage to refill the tank just fine, thanks. I do however know myself well enough to anticipate forgetting it at one time or another or having my wife, or daughter grab the car and overlook it.

I am grateful for your approval to move forward though. Really, I am.

 

You started a thread inquiring abou the practicality of a resource that is neither abundant or uniform, yet you seem surprised by dissenting views. Why ask everyone to waste their time when you have your mind already set to do something? Start a thread when your done and are flashing your PCM every other fill up while searching for E85.

 

What about using the ethanol content sensor from other GM vehicles? DSX Tuning makes a plug n play kit for E85 for the V2's. He can do it with the 2006+ V's as well. Then you don't have to reflash when you go back to regular pump, there will be literally no tuning required as the sensor does it all for you.

 

If the V1 fuel system could keep up with the added demand that would work. I have read from more than a few people that the stock system won't get enough fuel up to the injectors when on ethanol. Maybe they are speaking more of high HP applications. The other issue is that alcohol fuels like ethanol can eat up rubber seals, i think it is silicone that is used as a substitute. Also it attracts water so that is another concern. I ran it only at the track or while tuning for it in my last car so it didn't get much of a chance to mess anything up. If I were you I'd do a little more research as to how well the stock fuel system will handle the Ethanol 10 years after it was made. Since they were just starting to introduce ethanol in fuel, in the early 2000s, it may not handle it as well as you think.

Oh and one more consideration... As I recall, Ethanol tends to act like a solvent... So any gunk you may have at the bottom of your tank will be clogging filters pretty quick.

Just some stuff to take into consideration. I'm not trying to discourage you, but it is rather intensive and expensive work to completely do a fuel system.

Let me put it like this as well, my last car, a 2010 cobalt SS turbo, handled ethanol marginally well. The fuel injectors in the early model LNFs (2.0 turbo) were rubber sealed and had issues running ethanol. The LNF was introduced in late 06 I believe. And the silicon seals weren't introduced until 2009 or 2010 (as I recall) in those motors' injectors. Being that the V started its run in 04 and stopped in 07, I doubt that the fuel system would be as compatible as we all hope. For me, if I get my way with my build and the Mrs let's me go FI, I'll be redoing everything anyways so the fuel system will be upgraded so I can use E85.

 

Sorry... Phone double post

 

Aside from upgrading due to the increase of fuel that needs to be moved, I don't anticipate any issues. The video below shows a non FFV Tahoe engine and fuel system being stripped down to see what E85 does. It's one of many I found while looking into switching and all results were very similar. There has been extensive testing done on to see what alcohol does to 'legacy vehicles' since the govt. is trying to get 2400 blender pumps installed by the end of next year. I believe that upto E30 will be 'allowed' for non FFV vehicles, but don't quote me on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU#t=79

DMM, I guess you're right and I should have worded it different. My mind is made up and I was looking for tools, sites and apps to make the transition a little more practical. Figured I wasn't the first guy doing this.

 

Since you have an '05, I believe there is a GM truck OS that could be segmented into your PCM to add the flex fuel sensor. You cannot just add the sensor, your PCM has the be programmed for it. Even though the tables are there in the PCM does not mean they support the sensor (as with '04 CTS-V's).

I know specifically about the '05 as I was looking into the PCM controlling a 4L80E and the truck OS that could support this also has the flex fuel sensor support.