wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Well, I'd said earlier that I'd done a rev test and the car didn't pull forward on me... Well, apparently I didn't rev it high enough, probably partly because I was subconsciously trying to get the answer I wanted (and not the bad news) and partly because I was in my garage, it was late at night, and I knew my neighbours wouldn't be impressed with me revving the **** out of my car right then.

After work today I thought I would give it another try, in a parking lot, away from all the neighbours, etc. This time I brought it up to 5k+, and the car definitely pulled forward on me. So... clutch is dragging. Looks like I'll be ordering Tick's shim kit, and praying that I didn't hurt anything in my last 2 weeks of driving the car (and being a little forceful with getting it into reverse). Hopefully it'll help my cause that I haven't shifted the car over 4k rpm since the clutch was installed (was waiting for the 500 mile break-in mark).

I appreciate all the help fellas. I hope nobody thought I was disregarding their advice or anything like that. I had myself wrongfully convinced that the clutch wasn't dragging though. Stupid, I know.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

again, i must have missed it but...

what kind of flywheel are you running? is the gripforce a factory GM piece? did you get all the components from one source?

Thanks

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

No idea what GF's sourcing is, but the kit was purchased as a whole from them. The flywheel is not GM - it's a lighter weight chromoly flywheel made by "F1" or "FX". From what I've heard the pressure plate is just a painted LUK plate, and the clutch disk is LUK as well, but that's just hearsay. Lots of guys around the forums have installed their stuff without this issue...but then again, there are some who have had to shim the slave. So, there's obviously a difference from car-to-car... or part to part from GF.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

so technically this isn't a GM ls7 clutch....has anyone had these issues running a matched set of GM ls7 components? GM part numbers, GM packaging, the real deal....

just saw the link you posted earlier in the thread...sorry. the price is right, hope you get it worked out!

TeamSorad

iTrader: (2)

no that is incorrect, it is a gm ls7 clutch with a f1/GF flywheel. gm clutches are made by luk. I bought both the oem GM clutch kit from scoggin dicky and compared it to the f1 ls7 kit. Both the pressure plate and clutch disk are the same, which are made by luk. It is just painted blue. Even the slave is exactly the same. the ram flywheel sold with scoggin dicky kit is def different from the F1 flywheel (and obv the stock heavy ls7 flywheel)

this is the stage 1 f1 kit off ebay, the higher stages are obviously not the same but stage 1 is ls7

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

so this isn't a complete GM ls7 clutch assembly because the flywheel is different.

TeamSorad

iTrader: (2)

not sure if you are trying to argue or make a statement but you are correct as it has been said 5 times. He has a lightweight flywheel with the ls7 clutch kit, the CLUTCH AND PRESSURE PLATE are from luk who makes the clutches for GM. You said "real deal" like he is running something inferior when in fact the clutch disk and pressure plate are the same

There are plenty of people who have used light weight flywheels without issue and from my limited knowledge gm doesn't have lightweight flywheels

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

not trying to argue, i'm asking a question.

Has anyone had slave cylinder shimming issues using a GM OEM ls7 flywheel, a GM OEM ls7 pressure plate, a GM OEM ls7 clutch plate and a GM OEM ls7 slave cylinder....not ebay look alikes or parts that are "ls7 compatible", freaking GM, over the counter I bought the from Luke at Lindsay or the dude at scoggins and I took them out of a GM box.

Obviously, the OP and others are having issues and in my mind it is coming from using mismatched parts that may or may not be held to the same design criteria and tolerances as the original manufacturer of the car would have....we're only talking a few thousandths here but it appears to be all it takes to require removing the transmission and shimming the slave...what a bitch...i'm not saying his parts are inferior i'm just trying to understand if they are slightly different dimensionally which is causing this problem

I'm just looking for a stock replacement clutch for my daily driver and i would rather ask this question here a 100 times than to have to go through the shimming process because I need my car. if i have to spend an extra 100 bucks to buy original GM parts so be it because I just don't have the time or patience to go through this kinda of stuff....i'm sure i'm not the only one.

I feel for you wes8398...good luck on the repair!

voodoochikin04

iTrader: (3)

I researched the hell out of that question ls1247... my conclusions led me to get the complete gm LS7 package from luke at lindsay cadillac.. because i didnt find any real problems or shimming issues on the forums when going that route. but I have seen so many issues with the ebay kits and others.. I have not had any issues with my LS7 clutch setup... although hindsight I would have waited an extra week to get the unit balanced as I notice vibration.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

now that is good information! Do you remember what you torqued your pressure plate to? Did you reuse your stock pressure plate and flywheel bolts?

Thanks.....

voodoochikin04

iTrader: (3)

I've posted on other threads and I think in this one too?? but from my recollection....

I followed the torque specs from fuzzylogic on the pressure plate i recall like 48ft lbs... because I knew for sure that worked and didnt want to have to pull the trans again to change it. I reused the pressure plate bolts per luke at lindsay cadillac.. I bought new ARP flywheel bolts along with their moly lube and their instructions. I used a gm ls7 flywheel, ls7 clutch disc, ls7 pressure plate, ls7 slave, and a new pilot bearing for the ls6 V. Never a single issue. Clutch bled in minutes using the Tick performance speed bleeder. right off the bat the clutch engaged right off the floor and after 500 miles of daily easy going driving... i slowly started beating the **** out of it.. after a couple more miles.. the pedal is basically at stock height and feels great.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for posting it again....Ken

Fweasel

iTrader: (6)

I hope to be picking my car up this weekend after a complete OEM LS7 swap (slave, FW, PP clutch, pilot, original bolts, Tick bleeder). I'll report back with my experience, but I don't anticipate any problems with these parts.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the update, keep us posted!

lowoctane

From what I've read, and I've read a lot of different threads on the issues with the LS7 clutch in the V1. From what I'm getting is all of the issues are with the LS7 slave. Now my question is has there been any of these issues when someone is using the V slave with the spacer? I have yet to find a post/thread with going that route.

voodoochikin04

iTrader: (3)

The issues don't appear to be with the slave. They appear to be with the non gm flywheels... And people have to shim the slave to try to make things work. That's what I've always read. Never read any thing about slaves being the actual problem. Good luck finding someone who used a clutch kit that has an eBay flywheel and then a V slave with spacer.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

^^^^This

voodoochikin04

iTrader: (3)

and also, theres plenty of people who have no issues with the ebay kits or other aftermarket flywheels... so its not a consistent problem...

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

I spent over a year reading every LS7 clutch-related thread I could find and bugging all the "go-to" guys like Ryan, Brian, Randy and so on with PM's in an attempt to get ALL my ducks in a row before pulling the trigger on this. There's a TON of great info out there, but it's all scattered and there is also a lot of conflicting information too. It's a nightmare to sift through it all, that's for sure. But I thought I had everything straightened away enough to pull the trigger, so I did. I decided on the eBay kit because I read MANY anecdotes from folks who'd installed it without any issues, and because the price was right. In fact, I had come across more reports of people having issues with the Scoggin Dickey kits than I did the eBay kits. And I decided against the OEM LS7 kit because it was (and still is) my opinion that you get more bang for the buck with a kit that employs a lightened flywheel. Thus, my decision to go with the Gripforce Stage 1 eBay kit.

But here I am - for the first time since I started researching this mod - learning of a new potential issue. I guess that's why they call it "mod hell"...this is all just part of the journey. I just wish a) I wasn't one of the unlucky ones who needed the shim, and b) I had the time and resources to have done the job myself so it didn't cost me TWO transmission removals to (hopefully) get it right. Like "ls1247", my V is my daily driver as well, so this is all a lot more of a PITA for me/us when things go wrong and the car goes down for another couple of days.

My completely uneducated guess as to why the shim is needed in some cases and not others is just that there are variences from vehicle to vehicle. Every car is different. Maybe my master cylinder moves less fluid than yours. Maybe where my slave mounts is a few hundreths off from yours. Who knows, I would imagine there are a million possibilities.


LS1247 - The moral of the story here is that unless you buy a new part to replace EVERY potential problem that you may encounter, you're never going to be completely prepared. Draw your own conclusions and decide on whatever kit you're most comfortable with, but you have to assume a little bit of risk, as with any modification you do. Even if you go with an "OEM LS7" clutch, that thing is not OEM manufactured to go into a CTS-V. It doesn't matter what you get, it'll always come with some risk.

All that being said, I'm just crossing my fingers that these shims from Tick will solve my problems and I'll get to enjoy this mod without any other worries, cause I'll tell you what... this clutch makes our car feel brand new. It eliminated the brutal vibrations I was getting @ 2200 RPM, it eliminated the rattling around I was getting from the bellhousing area when I would be sitting idle at a light or otherwise stopped, and it made the car feel a whole bunch lighter. It's a great mod. Just gotta get through the BS right now...

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

My guess is that the variances are in the aftermarket parts being used in these various clutch setups. If the cars varied that much, they wouldn't be consistent off the showroom floor.

Combining parts from different manufacturers is always a scary proposition because you have no idea if their on the same page from an engineering perspective and you definitely can't depend on some vendor/sales guy to get it right.

And I doubt GM would let Luk sell completely identical to OE clutch packages on the aftermarket. And I also doubt Luk would take a chance at pissing off a client as big as GM and just sell identical to OE kits on ebay because they like us so much and we deserve OE quality at a lower price.....maybe they're selling GM seconds (you know they exist) but I bet if you break out the calipers and mics, you'll find a slight difference somewhere between the ebay Luk kits and the OE ones...could be wrong but I'm not willing to bet an afternoon flat on back pulling my transmission back out on it.

I've been dealing with aftermarket parts for 25 years....I'll always chose the factory option if there is one.