wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Well I've been talking with my mechanic and they've been doing the measurements and going over numbers with me. One thing I just noticed is that the above worksheet shows different tolerances than Tick's worksheet that is here: http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-performance-slave-cylinder-shim-kit-3-pack/
So they have tolerances specific to the RAM flywheel, apparently. Something to be aware of for those of you taking measurements with different flywheels.
RAM flywheel tolerances (as above) - 0.175" to 0.225
Tick/generic tolerances - 0.125" to 0.200"

I'll report back with more follow-up to my specific situation later on...

69stangscj

iTrader: (3)

I think I would tend to go with the tighter tolerances so the clutch lets out higher.

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

my LS7 clutch kit off fleabay was in GM packaging....I saw the letters LUK very small protruding out of the flywheel...Put it in with a new GM LS7 slave an it is hard to disengage;;;;and if I start it up say in second. car will move some..Does Luk make GM flywheels????So I got 2 blocks on it. Going back to the RXT Mcleod..

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

I bought the ls7 kit off fleabay. using an ls7 oem slave, having a hard time for it to disengage....SO IMO the fleabay **** is ****...JUNK freakin shim time...

BlackSS/SC

I used the luk repset clutch kit from gripforce on eBay. It came with the ls7 slave. I bought the flywheel from Napa for $120 (Canadian) garage cost and it also had luk stamped on it with the exact writing and pictures on the box as the luk clutch kit just had Napa logo too. I used new pressure plate bolts from gm to a Z06 and torqued to 47ft/lbs. At first the pedal was engaging very low to the floor but never any problems getting into gear. Clutch pedal moved back up around stock position after a couple weeks of driving. My car has 185,000km too.

TeamSorad

iTrader: (2)

so you bought an oem ls7 kit? that isn't even what this thread is about, the kit is the gripforce kit with the f1 lightweight flywheel. Not sure what "fleabay" kit you are referring to?

also I called Luk when this topic first went up and they make both the oem flywheel and clutch disc/pp for gmc

edit BlackSS I agree with you, but was asking greg. should have quoted

BlackSS/SC

I'm just saying oem is luk. You buy oem from gm, you get the same luk clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel as anywhere else you buy luk from, you just pay more. Doesn't matter if it eBay or not.

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Here's my follow-up from having the shim installed today. Got the car back and everything is AWESOME!! She's shifting into reverse and every other gear without any issues. Given that I had almost 500 kilometers (300 miles) on the new clutch before I realized I needed the shim installed, I thought it would be safe to give it a couple higher-rev/more throttle shifts too (about 5,000 rpm); which were also flawless.

Details: I used Tick's tolerances for the shim measuring.
"A" - 2.4475"
"B" - 2.4235"
Difference - 0.024"
Tolerance - 0.125" to 0.200"
Shim - 0.113" (middle size from kit)
Total w/ shim - 0.137"


So, she's shifting nicely into all gears and has lots of room for wear too. All is well.

Thanks to everyone for their help too. The posts, PM's, and texts saved me a LOT of headaches, time, and money, no doubt. It's much appreciated. I'll try to pay it forward by typing up a nice post about my LS7 clutch swap "story", so the community can have one more resource when they're looking into doing this.


I guess I have a different perspective. I don't have a RAM flywheel, so I didn't use RAM's tolerances. I called Tick and they provided some explanations as to how they came to their tolerance numbers and why RAM's may be different. That sealed the deal to go with Tick's numbers for me.

You've got clutch drag, by the sounds of it. I can't tell from your 2 posts what "kit" you bought exactly. The one that I got was from vendor Gripforce and came with a blue painted LUK pressure plate and LUK clutch disk, LS7 slave (not sure of manufacturer, but assume it's same as O'reilly/Autozone one), and a light weight chromoly flywheel made by "F1" (who is now called "FX"). http://www.ebay.com/itm/FX-STAGE-1-CLUTCH-KIT-SLAVE-FLYWHEEL-CORVETTE-C6-6-0L-LS2-6-2L-LS3-Z06-7-0L-LS7-/400687835050?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d4adb27aa&vxp=mtr. There are plenty of people who've installed this kit without having to shim the slave, but unfortunately a few of us have learned the hard way that a a shim is required. What's causing this, I don't know. In my opinion, there's more at play here than just the parts themselves. We're mating up a slave to a master cylinder that doesn't push the same amount of fluid as what it was meant to work with. Let alone the fact that the whole "kit" is designed and made for an entirely different car. Hopefully one of the lessons that everyone who reads this thread learns is that it's imperative that they do the aforementioned measurements when installing their new clutch, just so they can be sure of whether they'll need a shim or not, and/or whether they'll be battling with clutch drag if they don't.

So you bought from Gripforce, but got the kit without the flywheel, right? And then you added the OEM LS7 flywheel, resulting in a completely LUK/OEM LS7 clutch kit. This is further evidence to me that there may be a varience in the aftermarket (RAM, F1/FX) flywheels that is causing the need for a slave shim. This still begs the question of how so many others have installed these flywheels and not had to shim the slave though.
My V has 145,--- Kilometers (90,000 miles for the Yanks reading this ). My clutch came right up to almost stock height after I gave it a few good bleeds and drove it for a few days. Even with the pedal height being great, I still had drag isses though, as you can see. Now with the shim installed and no more drag, the pedal is still exactly where it was before the shim. Right around stock height. I'm very happy with it.
I don't think anyone was arguing this with you, bud. It just wasn't clear what you were trying to say in your post. Some people have a hard time accepting the fact that you can get GM OEM parts from sources other than GM. Hopefully that myth was dispelled amongst all the BS a few pages back. lol

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

ttttt bump

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

Edited my post to reflect accuracy re: OP's post. Been reading so many of these threads that I got mixed up and thought the OP was running same flywheel as I was. Thanks for pointing that out GREG O.

sonicblue

iTrader: (7)

Congrats Wes

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Glad your mechanic got your car fixed. I know he, as well as you, is tired of dealing with it.

I know you see absolutely no chance that GM could ever hold their parts exclusive, and while I think you could possibly be right that Luk is able to sell OEM parts on the aftermarket, there are also cases where they can not.....please refer to post 31 in the following thread.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...upgrade-2.html

although i will be going all GM for my clutch install, i will also have the shims available just in case...

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

I have the steel billet flywheel that's got LUK stamped on it off fleabay. I have not taken it to Lindsay Cadillac yet but probably eventually will do that, since it is still not disengaging properly just want to congratulate you good job.

TeamSorad

iTrader: (2)

you are still trolling this thread dude? Who ever said gm doesn't hold some parts exclusive and even then they are made by brembo not gm. This all started because you said you have 100 years of experience with aftermarket parts and you would never buy after market parts. Good for you, no body gives two *****. If you want to pay the dealer markup cool but don't say the clutch is different when it isn't

I called luk and they are the same clutches, there is no you could possibly be right, I am right and you are wrong. Congrats you will be going "all gm" for your clutch. You will be buying Luk parts.

Like I said Wes will post back after the issue gets resolved and his "terrible after market clutch and lightweight flywheel" will be wrapping out great

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

I bought the $100.00 cheaper LS7 supossedly OEM kit. The flyeheel is stamped LUK, and is heavy I think about 28lbs. I had purchased from GM the LS7 slave. and the Tick bleeder and the Motive cannister bleeder to be on the safe side... Well, I can start it up in say 1st or 2nd gear then drive a block, put it in neutrael and after that can NOT get into any more gears..The fleaybay kit for some reason, and I think it's the pressure plate is not adjusted correctly...I received the 3 shim pkg today and will attempt to measure and shim..That should do the job..The master cyl. has only 29g on it so I hope my 2 friends who have done this job once can get it right..So glad to have guys u know that will stop what they are doing and help out..Hate to see them do it again but next week I think the shimming will work..Measuring will surely be done this time.around.. wow, RPM, said to get their stage2-4L60 for easier fitment. I I wanted to go auto.....but forgot to ak about what to do with the 5 sensor lines that need to be hooked up and pcm...Tomorrow I am going to check and see how the other guys are dong with their automatic setups....Time for nighty night now.after a beer...lol

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

For the record and for future reference when someone comes across this thread in a search...
I've had 2 members PM me over the last few weeks regarding their apparent need for shims as well. And guess what setup they've installed...? GM ls7!! So this isn't a case of issues from certain suppliers and/or manufacturers. It seems to be unique to each car, somehow. Maybe it's related to the master cylinders or variences in slave manufacturing... maybe it's something else. But there are now confirmations that folks with almost any manufacturer's parts installed have had to drop the trans again and install slave shims.

Greg O - we posted at the same time. Sorry, but are you saying you have the full GM kit, or were any components from other manufacturers?

GREG O.

iTrader: (4)

I purchased off Fleabay, about a yr. ago...cost was about $518.00 and it came in the oem box that I trashed..It was packaged great with like grey foam...It came with everything but LS7 slave which I bought from my GM dealer..I did notice though the very small stamp LUK on the flywheel so yes this is a true GM clutch that I had installed that drags and has problem finding the gears.. I possibly need to shim the slave or do an adjustment on the pp.....freakin shame it did NOT work. when u buy all GM this should not happen..Also, everything was torqued perfectly and bled.. When it didnot shift properly I bought from Ca. the Motive bleeder and still no air. So it is bled correctly and no leaks..........

ryridesmotox

Hey guys, I might have something to add...

I have been perusing other forums and I seem to have somewhat of an idea. Very specifically, a few times, I saw people mention a V1 throwout bearing. From what I've read, they seem to be different than the LS7? I'm just kinda throwing that out as a possible issue. Anyways, just a thought. Obviously, if your bearing clearance is out of spec, that's probably the issue. But I just wanted to add another possible angle. I'm going to be ordering up my LS7 soon, not sure where I'm going to get it yet, I'm still reading about it though so we shall see.

wes8398

iTrader: (2)

In the interest of anyone who comes across this thread in the future, I thought I would post an update because I've recently discovered that I/we made a mistake with our measurements/math when it came to installing the shim. Thankfully, things are still operating well and I'm not having any issues. I just discovered this through conversation with Philistine regarding his new master cylinder.

I had my mechanic attempt to get the measurements into the tolerances that Tick suggested (0.125 to 0.200). My original "A" measurement was 2.4475" and "B" was 2.4235". We mistakenly subtracted the shim measurements from the "B" measurement, and thought we needed the 0.113 shim to give us an "A" minus "B" of 0.137". As Philistine pointed out, we actually needed to add the shim measurement to "B", which would give us an "A" minus "B" of -(negative)0.089.

So, in summary, the 0.089" of pre-load that my erroneous instructions to my mechanic caused, actually did seem to solve my problems with the clutch drag, but the above stated math is incorrect and I am not within Tick's tolerances.

I didn't want anyone making the same mistake and/or becoming confused about what I'd done, so I just wanted to clarify.

isis

iTrader: (1)

So doing it wrong made it right? How do you explain that?

Edit: nevermind I get it. Re-read the first few pages. You are basically adding some preload instead of setting the gap properly to compensate for the slave not being actuated fully by the stock master cylinder. So philistine's master would probably be a better fix