Anyone have a problem with DSS?
11-18-2014 | 01:36 PM
#21
Does someone make an adapter to use a stock driveshaft with an 8.8?
I think some balance work can be done on the car but it is time comsuming. I'd just like to know if anyone has been successful with it.
I think some balance work can be done on the car but it is time comsuming. I'd just like to know if anyone has been successful with it.
The problem isn't the driveshaft its a lack of a flex disc from what I can tell. My car hums, it doesn't vibrate from something that isn't balanced IMHO. I'd feel comfortable in saying you can take anything that is coming out of DSS's shop, take it to another qualified driveshaft vendor and it would be acceptably balanced...could be wrong but after seeing their facility, I doubt it.
DSS doesn't redesign drivetrains, they sell driveshafts and mine is very nice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to play nice with everything else in the car but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The drivetrain in my car lives in a polyurethane concrete hell and therefore, it has no way to dissipate harmonics caused by rotating assemblies that don't like each other harmonically. The fact I have yet to hear of any credible reports of any successful polyurethane flex disc installs on the V1 reinforces this in my mind. Also, I drive a lot and I swear my car is the happiest when it rains....
I saw this doing alignment work. You just couldn't put a Uniroyal Tiger Paw A/S on certain GM intermediates because it would just beat them into submission with the most bizarre, unexplainable wear patterns you have ever seen. Re-balance tires, readjust wheel bearings, realign, replace shocks or struts...no matter what you did, these tires were not harmonically compatible with the car. Put a different brand or tread design of tire on the car, you'd never see it again.
That's what I feel is going on with the DSS shafts but again I'm not ready to write off for 2 reasons.
1, I'm stuck with it. Voodoo wasn't set up to do business and my shaft was bad...what do you do...
2, parasitic driveline losses in this car are horrific as seen on the dyno and a 2 piece driveshaft with a rubber flex disc isn't helping. A 1 piece is, from a common sense standpoint, a simpler, more efficient way to go. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.
I'm in the process of softening up the mounts on the car and we'll see where this take us because mine isn't that bad, just annoying. However, if softening the motor and trans mounts doesn't work, I'll send Voodoo my stocker and put it back in the car flex disc and all.
DSS doesn't redesign drivetrains, they sell driveshafts and mine is very nice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to play nice with everything else in the car but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The drivetrain in my car lives in a polyurethane concrete hell and therefore, it has no way to dissipate harmonics caused by rotating assemblies that don't like each other harmonically. The fact I have yet to hear of any credible reports of any successful polyurethane flex disc installs on the V1 reinforces this in my mind. Also, I drive a lot and I swear my car is the happiest when it rains....
I saw this doing alignment work. You just couldn't put a Uniroyal Tiger Paw A/S on certain GM intermediates because it would just beat them into submission with the most bizarre, unexplainable wear patterns you have ever seen. Re-balance tires, readjust wheel bearings, realign, replace shocks or struts...no matter what you did, these tires were not harmonically compatible with the car. Put a different brand or tread design of tire on the car, you'd never see it again.
That's what I feel is going on with the DSS shafts but again I'm not ready to write off for 2 reasons.
1, I'm stuck with it. Voodoo wasn't set up to do business and my shaft was bad...what do you do...
2, parasitic driveline losses in this car are horrific as seen on the dyno and a 2 piece driveshaft with a rubber flex disc isn't helping. A 1 piece is, from a common sense standpoint, a simpler, more efficient way to go. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.
I'm in the process of softening up the mounts on the car and we'll see where this take us because mine isn't that bad, just annoying. However, if softening the motor and trans mounts doesn't work, I'll send Voodoo my stocker and put it back in the car flex disc and all.
11-18-2014 | 02:58 PM
#23
There is an adapter currently in use by a customer of mine, but not sure if it is available for retail yet.
Also I dont see why a modified stock driveshaft would be something that one feels "forced" into. Its a great option that functions as intended!
Also I dont see why a modified stock driveshaft would be something that one feels "forced" into. Its a great option that functions as intended!
11-18-2014 | 05:16 PM
#25
TECH Resident
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 860
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From: Milwaukee, WI
11-18-2014 | 05:56 PM
#26
11-22-2014 | 08:41 AM
#28
Yes, I use the stock driveshaft (modified by voodoochikin04) with my 8.8. I have the prototype adapter from Creative Steel. I believe they sell them on their website now.
11-22-2014 | 08:46 AM
#29
The problem isn't the driveshaft its a lack of a flex disc from what I can tell. My car hums, it doesn't vibrate from something that isn't balanced IMHO. I'd feel comfortable in saying you can take anything that is coming out of DSS's shop, take it to another qualified driveshaft vendor and it would be acceptably balanced...could be wrong but after seeing their facility, I doubt it.
DSS doesn't redesign drivetrains, they sell driveshafts and mine is very nice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to play nice with everything else in the car but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The drivetrain in my car lives in a polyurethane concrete hell and therefore, it has no way to dissipate harmonics caused by rotating assemblies that don't like each other harmonically. The fact I have yet to hear of any credible reports of any successful polyurethane flex disc installs on the V1 reinforces this in my mind. Also, I drive a lot and I swear my car is the happiest when it rains....
I saw this doing alignment work. You just couldn't put a Uniroyal Tiger Paw A/S on certain GM intermediates because it would just beat them into submission with the most bizarre, unexplainable wear patterns you have ever seen. Re-balance tires, readjust wheel bearings, realign, replace shocks or struts...no matter what you did, these tires were not harmonically compatible with the car. Put a different brand or tread design of tire on the car, you'd never see it again.
That's what I feel is going on with the DSS shafts but again I'm not ready to write off for 2 reasons.
1, I'm stuck with it. Voodoo wasn't set up to do business and my shaft was bad...what do you do...
2, parasitic driveline losses in this car are horrific as seen on the dyno and a 2 piece driveshaft with a rubber flex disc isn't helping. A 1 piece is, from a common sense standpoint, a simpler, more efficient way to go. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.
I'm in the process of softening up the mounts on the car and we'll see where this take us because mine isn't that bad, just annoying. However, if softening the motor and trans mounts doesn't work, I'll send Voodoo my stocker and put it back in the car flex disc and all.
DSS doesn't redesign drivetrains, they sell driveshafts and mine is very nice. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to play nice with everything else in the car but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. The drivetrain in my car lives in a polyurethane concrete hell and therefore, it has no way to dissipate harmonics caused by rotating assemblies that don't like each other harmonically. The fact I have yet to hear of any credible reports of any successful polyurethane flex disc installs on the V1 reinforces this in my mind. Also, I drive a lot and I swear my car is the happiest when it rains....
I saw this doing alignment work. You just couldn't put a Uniroyal Tiger Paw A/S on certain GM intermediates because it would just beat them into submission with the most bizarre, unexplainable wear patterns you have ever seen. Re-balance tires, readjust wheel bearings, realign, replace shocks or struts...no matter what you did, these tires were not harmonically compatible with the car. Put a different brand or tread design of tire on the car, you'd never see it again.
That's what I feel is going on with the DSS shafts but again I'm not ready to write off for 2 reasons.
1, I'm stuck with it. Voodoo wasn't set up to do business and my shaft was bad...what do you do...
2, parasitic driveline losses in this car are horrific as seen on the dyno and a 2 piece driveshaft with a rubber flex disc isn't helping. A 1 piece is, from a common sense standpoint, a simpler, more efficient way to go. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to work perfectly.
I'm in the process of softening up the mounts on the car and we'll see where this take us because mine isn't that bad, just annoying. However, if softening the motor and trans mounts doesn't work, I'll send Voodoo my stocker and put it back in the car flex disc and all.
I believe the DSS CV is junk. Rotate that thing iby hand outside the car and you'll see what I mean. That's where your humming is coming from and where my vibration comes from. The dealer left my cv bolts loose once on my stock driveshaft and it spit out all the grease and ruined it, the vibration/humming sound was the exact same.
My one piece carbon fiber was at the end of DSS's recommended length for measuring travel and vibrated like crazy over 110 mph. I shimmed it to the center of the cv travel recommendation and it still vibrated, just not as bad. The damage may have already been done to mine from the initial vibration.
Their claim about their balancer not working right has to be lies. Nobody in their right mind would randomly install balance weights to a driveshaft and ship them to customers.
11-22-2014 | 08:57 AM
#30
Well that is interesting. I'll take a look at the CV today. DSS is building me a dual CV to try so that may make it worse.
I believe the DSS CV is junk. Rotate that thing iby hand outside the car and you'll see what I mean. That's where your humming is coming from and where my vibration comes from. The dealer left my cv bolts loose once on my stock driveshaft and it spit out all the grease and ruined it, the vibration/humming sound was the exact same.
My one piece carbon fiber was at the end of DSS's recommended length for measuring travel and vibrated like crazy over 110 mph. I shimmed it to the center of the cv travel recommendation and it still vibrated, just not as bad. The damage may have already been done to mine from the initial vibration.
Their claim about their balancer not working right has to be lies. Nobody in their right mind would randomly install balance weights to a driveshaft and ship them to customers.
My one piece carbon fiber was at the end of DSS's recommended length for measuring travel and vibrated like crazy over 110 mph. I shimmed it to the center of the cv travel recommendation and it still vibrated, just not as bad. The damage may have already been done to mine from the initial vibration.
Their claim about their balancer not working right has to be lies. Nobody in their right mind would randomly install balance weights to a driveshaft and ship them to customers.
11-22-2014 | 11:15 AM
#31
I believe the DSS CV is junk. Rotate that thing iby hand outside the car and you'll see what I mean. That's where your humming is coming from and where my vibration comes from. The dealer left my cv bolts loose once on my stock driveshaft and it spit out all the grease and ruined it, the vibration/humming sound was the exact same.
My one piece carbon fiber was at the end of DSS's recommended length for measuring travel and vibrated like crazy over 110 mph. I shimmed it to the center of the cv travel recommendation and it still vibrated, just not as bad. The damage may have already been done to mine from the initial vibration.
Their claim about their balancer not working right has to be lies. Nobody in their right mind would randomly install balance weights to a driveshaft and ship them to customers.
My one piece carbon fiber was at the end of DSS's recommended length for measuring travel and vibrated like crazy over 110 mph. I shimmed it to the center of the cv travel recommendation and it still vibrated, just not as bad. The damage may have already been done to mine from the initial vibration.
Their claim about their balancer not working right has to be lies. Nobody in their right mind would randomly install balance weights to a driveshaft and ship them to customers.
I went round and round with Frank on the CV plunge depth because I too feel the driveshaft is a bit on the short side. I'm about an 1/8" from running both CVs dead in the middle of their plunge...but
That wouldn't cause my shifter to get noiser at just about any and all speed or rpms ranges....
That wouldn't amplify the dreaded and well documented 2200rpm LS6 vibe that I get in various gears at various speeds.
These things are caused by a complete lack of dampening anywhere in the drivetrain....none, zero, nada. AGAIN, reinforcing this theory is the fact that the only person to ever report, from my knowledge, a successful poly flex disc install is fuzzylogic. The flex disc is, unfortunately, playing a key role in this car it would seem and without it, the driveline combo I have may never be as smooth as I think it should be.
BTW...Apparently DSS changed he CV plunge depth measurement from the 5 3/4" you posted to 5 7/8"
11-22-2014 | 01:23 PM
#32
I think you're wrong on the CVs. If you've ever disassembled a new, mass produced CV you'd understand while they all feel a little "crunchy" out of the box. The cages aren't polished, they'll break in.
I went round and round with Frank on the CV plunge depth because I too feel the driveshaft is a bit on the short side. I'm about an 1/8" from running both CVs dead in the middle of their plunge...but
That wouldn't cause my shifter to get noiser at just about any and all speed or rpms ranges....
That wouldn't amplify the dreaded and well documented 2200rpm LS6 vibe that I get in various gears at various speeds.
These things are caused by a complete lack of dampening anywhere in the drivetrain....none, zero, nada. AGAIN, reinforcing this theory is the fact that the only person to ever report, from my knowledge, a successful poly flex disc install is fuzzylogic. The flex disc is, unfortunately, playing a key role in this car it would seem and without it, the driveline combo I have may never be as smooth as I think it should be.
BTW...Apparently DSS changed he CV plunge depth measurement from the 5 3/4" you posted to 5 7/8"
I went round and round with Frank on the CV plunge depth because I too feel the driveshaft is a bit on the short side. I'm about an 1/8" from running both CVs dead in the middle of their plunge...but
That wouldn't cause my shifter to get noiser at just about any and all speed or rpms ranges....
That wouldn't amplify the dreaded and well documented 2200rpm LS6 vibe that I get in various gears at various speeds.
These things are caused by a complete lack of dampening anywhere in the drivetrain....none, zero, nada. AGAIN, reinforcing this theory is the fact that the only person to ever report, from my knowledge, a successful poly flex disc install is fuzzylogic. The flex disc is, unfortunately, playing a key role in this car it would seem and without it, the driveline combo I have may never be as smooth as I think it should be.
BTW...Apparently DSS changed he CV plunge depth measurement from the 5 3/4" you posted to 5 7/8"
I would trust the Fuzzylogic findings after I grew a 2nd head on my shoulders. There is more mechanical knowledge and ability in your pinky toe.
11-22-2014 | 02:39 PM
#33
My pinky toe thanks you!
11-22-2014 | 03:45 PM
#34
I struggle with the damping theory simply because the vibs start and get progressively worse. If everything were balanced then it would be a harmonic in a rpm or speed window. If something is out of balance then it will just get progressively worse. Mine doesn't care about engine RPM only vehicle speed.
For sure it's amplified by poly stuff. It seems the main source for out of balance is the run out on the trans flange and the rear flange. I clocked mine opposite which helped or seemed to, but unless the CG of the shaft perfectly aligns with the run out angles then there will be a out of balance to some level. With poly bushings then the force is transferred to the cabin. I suppose the flex disk would help in that way. Maybe an oem trans mount would as well. I guess a 2 piece shaft where the center can float would eliminate the run out issue on the flanges. If the center is hard mounted then I can't imagine it helping.
For sure it's amplified by poly stuff. It seems the main source for out of balance is the run out on the trans flange and the rear flange. I clocked mine opposite which helped or seemed to, but unless the CG of the shaft perfectly aligns with the run out angles then there will be a out of balance to some level. With poly bushings then the force is transferred to the cabin. I suppose the flex disk would help in that way. Maybe an oem trans mount would as well. I guess a 2 piece shaft where the center can float would eliminate the run out issue on the flanges. If the center is hard mounted then I can't imagine it helping.
These things are caused by a complete lack of dampening anywhere in the drivetrain....none, zero, nada. AGAIN, reinforcing this theory is the fact that the only person to ever report, from my knowledge, a successful poly flex disc install is fuzzylogic. The flex disc is, unfortunately, playing a key role in this car it would seem and without it, the driveline combo I have may never be as smooth as I think it should be.
BTW...Apparently DSS changed he CV plunge depth measurement from the 5 3/4" you posted to 5 7/8"
BTW...Apparently DSS changed he CV plunge depth measurement from the 5 3/4" you posted to 5 7/8"
11-22-2014 | 05:28 PM
#35
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 1
From: Wildomar, CA
A driveshaft issue wouldn't be effected by rpm. The driveshaft speed varies with vehicle speed. A torque tube setup like a Vette would vary by rpm because its in between the engine and the transaxle. Too bad there is no way to use the stock flex disk. I'm sure the rubber there would absorb a good amount of the vibration. The rubber flex disks may go bad after a long while, but they are pretty solid to high HP levels
11-22-2014 | 06:49 PM
#36
It does seem to vary with engine speed more than vehicular speed and with the experience I have it just feels like the mounts are too hard IMHO. There's just no need to have motor mounts that fricking stiff for what I'm doing.
DSS also suggested a stock mount and hopefully ill get it in this weekend.
At this point it would be interesting to see if dyno numbers are different between a 1 piece and a 2 piece.
Thanks for the help guys
DSS also suggested a stock mount and hopefully ill get it in this weekend.
At this point it would be interesting to see if dyno numbers are different between a 1 piece and a 2 piece.
Thanks for the help guys
11-22-2014 | 09:46 PM
#37
That's what I mean. If it's a harmonic then it seems likely it would be from the engine torque pulses through the transmission. A dual mass flywheel would eliminate most of that but I imagine anyone with an 8.8 is going to have ditched that a long time ago. If it's vehicle speed then it seems likely it's a balance issue of some sort or a joint issue. u-joints seem proven in driveshafts if the angles are good. I don't know about CV's. I don't recall the stock DS having any u-joints though. And many people don't have issues at all with it. Basically I don't freaking know!
11-23-2014 | 12:07 AM
#38
I am just glad to see I am not alone. I have the first dual cv 1 piece for our cars and have alot of vibtration, beading and phasing at 110 ish. I am not home but when I return I will be clocking the driveshaft around 1 hole at a time to find the sweet spot. I know it is drivesahft related because when I ditched the 2 piece that come with the 9" kit, my vibration at the center console went away and so did the highway speed vibration.
11-23-2014 | 01:13 AM
#39
I'm a little confused. The vibs reduced with the dual cv 1 piece over the 2 piece?
Also, where are you in AL?
Also, where are you in AL?
I am just glad to see I am not alone. I have the first dual cv 1 piece for our cars and have alot of vibtration, beading and phasing at 110 ish. I am not home but when I return I will be clocking the driveshaft around 1 hole at a time to find the sweet spot. I know it is drivesahft related because when I ditched the 2 piece that come with the 9" kit, my vibration at the center console went away and so did the highway speed vibration.
11-23-2014 | 08:30 AM
#40
Phasing the driveshaft....what a pita. Would you rotate the entire shaft or just one end at a time?
I tried to offset runouts when I put it in so phasing is the last thing on my list.
I tried to offset runouts when I put it in so phasing is the last thing on my list.