BTR valve stem seals......
11-22-2015, 11:22 AM
#21
Wow you owned TEA! Good best! You made a successful business by only selling to professionals then, I assume? Since you inherently ragged on do-it-yourselfers with the HVAC and plumbing jab.
Great good! We can build engines but putting valve seals on eludes us!
I used to have a respect for you based solely on the reputation of your products, however, after seeing your take that we aren't qualified to install your products, I have none.
Maybe you should set up a forum specifically for people who want to go and talk about how they paid mechanics to install parts and troubleshoot problems. I think ls1tech is more for the automotive hobbyists (who in more cases than not know the nuances of our particular vehicles more than the 'professional') who like to diagnose problems and help others, and leave a resource available to someone who may have the problem in the future.
Great good! We can build engines but putting valve seals on eludes us!
I used to have a respect for you based solely on the reputation of your products, however, after seeing your take that we aren't qualified to install your products, I have none.
Maybe you should set up a forum specifically for people who want to go and talk about how they paid mechanics to install parts and troubleshoot problems. I think ls1tech is more for the automotive hobbyists (who in more cases than not know the nuances of our particular vehicles more than the 'professional') who like to diagnose problems and help others, and leave a resource available to someone who may have the problem in the future.
11-22-2015, 11:53 AM
#23
I think it is clear what he is trying to say. Building engines isn't as simple as looking at a forum thread, and doing it for yourself. Sometimes, something as simple as installing a valve seal takes enough practice to "feel" when it is right. But someone who doesn't do it right, and then openly attacks the company who sold them the part, without giving them a chance to make it right, really needs to hire a "professional", and let them do the work.
11-22-2015, 12:07 PM
#24
I wasn't aware that Lunati used the same seals. Mine are all black and I don't remember them being short like the ones pictured. Mine pressed on all the way to the spring seat, more or less. Got them back in late 2013 from a guy who had them sitting around for a bit.
11-22-2015, 12:59 PM
#25
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Aside from my strong opinion of your valve stem seals, I'm at least trying to post pictures and diagnose the issue I'm having to bring some level of analysis to the table here.
A blanket statement of saying several customers in here have installed it wrong, or BTR has never heard of this issue is far from the customer service i expect. Maybe you could offer some tips, suggestions or some form of remedy? (IE: how did i install it wrong, what can i do to install it right) or some kind of resolution instead of leaving us high and dry.
The only suggestion i have seen from BTR is to purchase their new tool and that it was not installed correctly. Why do people stand behind vendors that do this?! I will spend my money elsewhere
A blanket statement of saying several customers in here have installed it wrong, or BTR has never heard of this issue is far from the customer service i expect. Maybe you could offer some tips, suggestions or some form of remedy? (IE: how did i install it wrong, what can i do to install it right) or some kind of resolution instead of leaving us high and dry.
The only suggestion i have seen from BTR is to purchase their new tool and that it was not installed correctly. Why do people stand behind vendors that do this?! I will spend my money elsewhere
11-22-2015, 01:19 PM
#26
Aside from my strong opinion of your valve stem seals, I'm at least trying to post pictures and diagnose the issue I'm having to bring some level of analysis to the table here.
A blanket statement of saying several customers in here have installed it wrong, or BTR has never heard of this issue is far from the customer service i expect. Maybe you could offer some tips, suggestions or some form of remedy? (IE: how did i install it wrong, what can i do to install it right) or some kind of resolution instead of leaving us high and dry.
A blanket statement of saying several customers in here have installed it wrong, or BTR has never heard of this issue is far from the customer service i expect. Maybe you could offer some tips, suggestions or some form of remedy? (IE: how did i install it wrong, what can i do to install it right) or some kind of resolution instead of leaving us high and dry.
But for those who want to know how we do it with common tools, here goes.
We lube the OD of the guide and the ID of the seal with oil.
We use a 12mm 12 point socket and press the seals on.
We have a longer bolt that goes in the rocker bolt hole with a fender washer on it.
We use a pry bar under the fender washer and press down on the top of the socket.
Once the seal is fully seated you should feel a defined stopping point, there will be about a 1/8" gap between the seal and the locator.
If the seal feels like it comes to a gradual stop and doesn't look like it's all the way down, the inside of it could be wrinkled. We pull the seal up, rotate it 180 degrees, and push it down again. It should always have a defined stopping point, if it doesn't, then it could be wrinkled internally and not be all the way down.
We purposely use a shorter locator and a shorter seal to facilitate shimming if desired. Taller seals make it basically impossible to shim under the locators.
11-22-2015, 01:24 PM
#27
I think it is clear what he is trying to say. Building engines isn't as simple as looking at a forum thread, and doing it for yourself. Sometimes, something as simple as installing a valve seal takes enough practice to "feel" when it is right. But someone who doesn't do it right, and then openly attacks the company who sold them the part, without giving them a chance to make it right, really needs to hire a "professional", and let them do the work.
11-23-2015, 07:16 AM
#33
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I installed BTR .660 kit and used a socket to press them in (researched online and found out that a socket works like a charm) tapped it with a rubber mallet lightly until i felt that it seated properly.
A person with enough mechanical knowledge should know how to "feel" or "sense" when a part is properly installed.
This was the first time i have worked on an LS engine, and have had not issue whatsoever with this kit, and i drive my car like its stolen every day.
With that said, sayonara mothafocka.
A person with enough mechanical knowledge should know how to "feel" or "sense" when a part is properly installed.
This was the first time i have worked on an LS engine, and have had not issue whatsoever with this kit, and i drive my car like its stolen every day.
With that said, sayonara mothafocka.
11-23-2015, 10:25 PM
#37
I think this thread has run its course. I'm going to change the title as it doesnt represent a fair assessment to the product since it is install error. I'll leave the thread here for a bit so people can see the good tech related info in it about install.
11-23-2015, 11:16 PM
#38
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There is some misinformation about the GM valve stem seals posted in here. The 1st revision of valve stem seals were continued until 2002. Respective part numbers below. 2nd revision is the combination seal and spring seat.
Intake P/N 12533586 (rev 1) - 12482063 (rev 2)
Exhaust P/N 12457652 (rev 1) - 12482062 (rev 2)
What i have been trying to say all along is that the BTR valve stem seals require considerably more force to seat when compared to OEM. Other folks have mentioned this too. The GM ones slide on snug and don't bind or seat crooked. And best yet they don't require a sledge hammer to install. I had no issues getting them seated as you can tell in my pic. They are also holding in place much better...
I will report back in a few hundred miles, hopefully with better news.
Intake P/N 12533586 (rev 1) - 12482063 (rev 2)
Exhaust P/N 12457652 (rev 1) - 12482062 (rev 2)
What i have been trying to say all along is that the BTR valve stem seals require considerably more force to seat when compared to OEM. Other folks have mentioned this too. The GM ones slide on snug and don't bind or seat crooked. And best yet they don't require a sledge hammer to install. I had no issues getting them seated as you can tell in my pic. They are also holding in place much better...
I will report back in a few hundred miles, hopefully with better news.
12-12-2015, 09:35 AM
#39
I have to chime inhere after reading all of this. A buddy of mine who is also on here, did a cam, springs, and vss using BTR springs and seals. He is far from a idiot and has built countless motors, and way back in the day, the Ford days, even bought from BT then, when he first started out that little company. He used a socket and mallet to install his seals, and within 100 miles, the car was smoking like a freight train. Seals popped off on many of the stems.
I am pretty sure BT doesn't own OEK, so he shouldn't have taken ANY offense at the "****" product reference, just like he shouldn't have gotten mad over the comp cam failure IF he had any of that mess. Point is, unless your the manufacture of the products you sell, you don't know when a "BAD" batch is out there. Not everyone is going to call you to complain about the seals when tearing them out of a 4th gen installed, is a bitch, and people don't want to take a chance of it happening again.
I bought springs from you a few months ago, tossed the seals in the trash, and bought Felpros. No big deal. I know you have a great reputation, great customer service and do what needs to be done. But I guess if you want to tell people they are too stupid to install seals, well that's your prerogative.
I am pretty sure BT doesn't own OEK, so he shouldn't have taken ANY offense at the "****" product reference, just like he shouldn't have gotten mad over the comp cam failure IF he had any of that mess. Point is, unless your the manufacture of the products you sell, you don't know when a "BAD" batch is out there. Not everyone is going to call you to complain about the seals when tearing them out of a 4th gen installed, is a bitch, and people don't want to take a chance of it happening again.
I bought springs from you a few months ago, tossed the seals in the trash, and bought Felpros. No big deal. I know you have a great reputation, great customer service and do what needs to be done. But I guess if you want to tell people they are too stupid to install seals, well that's your prerogative.
12-13-2015, 06:18 PM
#40
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Exactly, if there are already numerous folks in here complaining about the seals or having bad experiences with them I'd hope someone would look into them instead of bashing me that the install is bad. Yes he did post some level of useful information afterwards, but only after the damage had already been done. I feel no need to apologize to a vendor, my opinions and experiences are just that.
For what it's worth i removed all the seals from the BTR kit and used the exact same procedure and tools for installing the GM seals on all cyl and they are holding up like a charm. I will add they "felt" better when pressing them down. They don't bind up or like the BTR provided ones.
I will be bringing some quantifiable data and detailed measurements to the table comparing the BTR provided seals to the ones I used which i perceive as superior. I suspect the measurements will differ in regards to the inner diameter.
For what it's worth i removed all the seals from the BTR kit and used the exact same procedure and tools for installing the GM seals on all cyl and they are holding up like a charm. I will add they "felt" better when pressing them down. They don't bind up or like the BTR provided ones.
I will be bringing some quantifiable data and detailed measurements to the table comparing the BTR provided seals to the ones I used which i perceive as superior. I suspect the measurements will differ in regards to the inner diameter.