STS LS2 Build on 1998 Z28 Camaro - Page 4 - LS1TECH



Canadian Members We never leave because we have The Beer Store

STS LS2 Build on 1998 Z28 Camaro

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-03-2012, 06:07 PM   #61
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

Read some of your newest posts on the old forum. Figured you would have the boost issue sorted out by now unless maybe you have a 3psi spring.If no boost leaks left then has to be gate not staying closed maybe or is blow off still leaking ??
I would replace any chinese blow offs or wastegates with proper genuine name brand like tial stuff. You spent this much whats a bit more. Also some intercoolers are crap not sure if you have ebay intercooler or what? But you said the intercooler holds boost when you did that tests? And assume the turbo is fine ? So my bet now would likely be on gate or maybe blow off. So what happens when you don't hook up gate you should get like 10 or more psi by being careful and watching it when you put it into boost?

Anyway my car is now back in Kelowna. Might be selling it though not sure have some other ideas and plans ,wife wants a nice boat and I kind of do too and may just stick with my new idea of stock stable of high end cars. Z06 was first car in that stable.
But it was fun drive for sure and made it without any big event. Car ran well and no overheating no problems realy at all. Got think around 15 mpg average but was pretty hard on it most of the time.I had fun with it in other words. No speeding tickets either.
But not sure want to go back to Calgary for awhile!! LOL Let buddy in Calgary drive it too.
He had a perma smile for hours afterwards!
Sure some of his neighbors think an f16 flew by their house though!!

Anyway my new engine is working well ,upgrade turbos are boosting well and pretty sure have no boost leaks happening. But still be good to do a test too bad didnt' do a smoke test when back in Regina.

So hopefully you can figure out your car soon. These little things can drive a person crazy if you don't figure them out.
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 02:20 AM   #62
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Al, I'm still a fair ways off from figuring out my car unfortunatley. Here's a response i had from STS:

Here is a summary of my last email from STS, i had to leave some of it out for specific reasons:

1. (In response to my belief that my intercooler is free and clear of debris): Sometimes people pull things apart and stuff a rag in a pipe to keep stuff from getting in there and then it is forgotten and reassembled with a rag in the system. That typically ends up in the intercooler. Typically stays on the inlet side as it canít make it through the fin cores. It will cause a major restriction though which can typically be seen with monitoring the boost at the turbo compressor vs. the intake manifold as turbo boost will go very high while manifold boost stays level or drops off.

2. (In response to my known exhaust leaks): I donít think it is an exhaust leak. Doesnít sound like one. The turbo sounds like it is laboring where an exhaust leak wonít let the turbo even spool. It could be an exhaust restriction but I donít think it is a leak so donít spend a lot of time looking for a leak on the exhaust.

3. If the engine blew or work was done on the engine or exhaust system prior to this problem, something could have gone through the turbo and damaged the turbine wheel. Iíve even seen a big chunk of catalyst stuck in a turbine housing that caused a condition a lot like this.

4. (In response to my question re: how to test boost pressure directly from the turbo): You can run a hose from your compressor outlet (should be a port on there or youíll have to drill and tap one right on the compressor outlet just before the first silicone hose). Connect that to your boost gauge and see what the boost is at the turbo. You know what it is at the intake manifold already (4 psi). Standard intercooled system should be about 6-7 psi at the turbo max. From what the video sounds like, I would expect the turbo to be producing upwards of 10 psi.

5. (In response to my question regarding how to check exhaust pressure): Exhaust backpressure is tough to test as you have to put a bung in the exhaust or drill and tap for 1/8Ē NPT and put a fitting in there with copper tubing to dissipate heat and then convert to rubber tubing to go to your gauge. Careful if there is a problem that you donít over boost your gauge and ruin your boost gauge.

6. Make sure that the intake from the filter down to the turbo is good. If that area is sealed up too good above the fender liner or if the filter is sandwiched in there too tight, that can cause a restriction. You may want to just put the filter on the turbo for now to rule out anything wrong with that setup.

7. Engine and cam specs seem fine. Only thing I can think of is if you are getting lifter pump or valve train isnít set up correctly and is too tight. Something possibly causing the valves to float or not seal up correctly as the engine revs up.

8. Wish you were closer and could just ship the car here. I do have a really good GM dealership in Drayton Valley AB but that is about 7 hours from you.

9. Do you have HP Tuners or Predator for tuning? Can you drive the car and watch the timing and LTFT, etc? If the timing is pulling back for some reason, it can run bad like this too. Should be 15-20 degrees of timing at WOT with some boost. Should be 20-25 at WOT without boost.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:35 AM   #63
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

Most all the above was good advice and helps point you in the right directions.

I have seen a lot of that stuff as well playing with the turbo talons. Rag in intercooler is pretty easy to do. And that is one problem with cat converters on cars that are rear mount.Dangerous if you have cat come apart and go thru turbo.
And seen totally clogged cat on sts car and the car had like 100hp then had like 500 after he fixed up the cat problem.
And seen a few screwed turbos as well. You should see if the turbo spins freely just take off intake tube. And as said if you disconnect line to gate you should be able to get 10psi or more for testing purposes no matter what the gate spring is.

There are only so much things to check /fix . Turbos are pretty simple really. You put exhaust to them and they spin up and boost. But of course you can have as said boost leaks, exhaust leaks,etc.
I dont see problem being undersized turbo. Factory often undersizes for several reasons gives up some top end but gets it spooling quicker. Sure pushing a too small turbo too hard can kill it but really we are talking likely at 20 plus psi.

Once you take off the gate and see that it can boost to 10psi and beyond then you know it might be gate issue if blow off is now sealing.And ifs its knock off chinese gate then just get a real Tial gate and be done with it. You have gone this far may have to go a bit farther.
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 03:02 AM   #64
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Got my car into Competition Muffler and it was out just shy of 4 hours later.

I have a new resonator welded in just after the y-pipe, and a muffler welded in after the turbo (right exhaust pipe) for noise reasons.

They snugged everything up, rebent a few pipes, put a new v-clamp on the exhaust to turbo flange and sealed up all the small exhaust leaks.

I ended up also putting a small rubber cap on the fuel vent line that runs into the driver side port just between the throttle body and intake manifold....and holy smack, my car is making 5 lbs of boost (which is the same as the wastegate spring) and it is maintaining it throughout the rev band!

IT WORKS!

I will drive the car occasionally (but nicely) until i can get some further tuning done on the camaro. But i think the biggest of the challenges are over (hopefully).

Bout g*d damn time!
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 10:12 AM   #65
TECH Regular
 
94LT1TA6spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 467
Default

Great project!

your work looks really good.

94LT1TA6spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #66
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

You have made great progress with your car and figured out the various little issues.
Persistence and sometimes spending or even throwing money at them can win the race but sure can be annoying sometimes.
And little things can drive a guy crazy as well. so you got the boosting issue worked out. A nice tune should make it drive nice . You still have that fuel pump running constantly issue to figure out?
So you are just letting CK tune it ,on local dyno or not? You have to either use dyno or drive it super lots to really get things tuned right especially the part throttle stuff. Are you running 80s or 60s? Those 80s are much more annoying to tune. 60s were cake.
I still have about few issues on my car. Noises from back wheels but at least now know its back wheels and think something with parking brake some interference or something causing some stupid noises.
Headlight that cant figure out won't work. Have new motor, headlight module but think its wire problem maybe crushed or burnt or something or switch maybe inside car. Have to fix that thing for safety even if have to mickey mouse jumper it.
Get a code once in awhile for knock sensor. And have to put cats on car or get a catted ypipe something to pass safety as well. And still have some vibration at higher speeds but not near as bad as in past.Spent big money on carbon fiber driveshaft at end of last season pretty sure wheels are good unless some weights feel off so think its torque arm angles or maybe trans output shaft bushing issue. Hopefully get to the bottom of it and get it fixed . If fix the above issues think would be very happy with my car.
Oh have bit of decel whine as well but not sure can improve that. The dana 60 is a big rearend and you hear every noise in these cars with the hatchback design. But that is liveable just turn up stereo or open cutout a bit.

Anyway you got yours boosting so must be a lot more fun. Nice too that you can easily get to your engine with the rear mount setup. Things are really packed in on my car hard to get to some plugs and stuff.
Some pros and cons to both rear and front mount setups.

But at least you are making progress on your car!
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 01:52 AM   #67
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Thanks guys.

I will take a vid of the car driving with the 5# spring in it...and then when i get some tuning done, i will install the electronic boost controller, and slowly dial up the boost to 10-15psi and redo the vid to show the difference.

My local tuner might be avail for a day in early July, and if our schedules don't jive, it'll have to wait until mid to late July 2012.

Although slow, progress is being made.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 03:34 AM   #68
Launching!
 
devic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Default

looks pretty nice so far cant wait to see the next video
devic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 07:42 AM   #69
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

Looking at the dyno on the f body board.Is that recent one of your car?
So its running pretty good but you have hesitation? Could be tuning what size injectors are you running? 60s? 80s? I had trouble running closed loop with my 80s so went to full time open loop. It helped my hesitation problems quite a bit. Still on base tune no professional dyno tuning yet. At least looks like you have most of your issues figured out. Sure the car is decently quick already and will only get faster. What tires are you using on it for daily driving?
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 01:18 AM   #70
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Here are the basics:

Forged Champion Motors LS2 402ci 8.5 - 1 compression motor

6 spd manual (Spec 3+ clutch with steel flywheel)

Moser 12 bolt (with a turbo UNFRIENDLY 3.90 gear set) Tru-trac diff

STS Rear Mount Turbo, GT-67 Ball Bearing Upgrade, AR.91, stock exhaust

60# Injectors, FMIC, MSD Ign Coils. LS6 Intake, Custom PCV setup

Turbosmart 38mm Wastegate, 5# Spring, STS BOV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

After a ton of problem solving since 2009, my car is now building and holding 5 pounds of boost at WOT. The tune i have (which is the initial one sent out from Rick Squires) is a very safe one and is fine for now.

I have yet to install the Electronic Boost Controller (which i plan to dial up to 10-15psi).

When i can get my wife to go for a ride with me, i will take a vid of my low compression LS2 motor with a 5# spring in it for a baseline for y'all.

The car is running fine, i've driven it to work 3 times, and around Saskatoon twice with no problems.

BTW i am running Nitto Drag Radials (305/35/18) on 18 inch Corvette Replica's on my rears. My fronts are the 275/35/18 BF Goodrich tires with the new tread design.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 01:46 AM   #71
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

Those nittos likely won't work too good after you up the power to 10psi or so . Even with my 408 and 7.5 psi the nittos weren't working so good. Current toyo drag radials are better and seem not bad in rain. But to really hook up guess have to run et street radials or eqivalent.

60s of course might also be getting too small at 15psi or so. 80s seem much harder to tune right. But maybe not for pro tuners. I am contemplating those very pricey injectors if keep my car.

3.90 is a lot of gear for sure . I find my 3.54 pretty up there too but can't go lower with the dana 60. I think a nice 3.08 would be about right for my car but maybe even something 2.73 would be fine, drop revs more on highway ,likely improve gas mileage. But normally my car won't see much highway and not really worried about mileage either.

I went to 9.5 to 1 still fine compression ratio especially if you use alc injection.
8.5 of course gives a bit more safety margin especially at higher boost levels
just wasn't sure if it made things any more doggy and of course less compression makes a bit less power but boost compensates for that pretty easily!

Its great your car is out and about now. Have fun with it ,carefully of course and try to keep the shiny side up!
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 01:18 AM   #73
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Thanks Al and Rob.

I went a bit lower compression for a bit more safety margin as i don't want to run methanol.

My thought process: if Porsche, Subaru, Toyota, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Ford and other manufacturers run cars with turbos work without Methanol, i can too.

At this point my car is undergeared...yes.

At this point my car isn't professionally tuned...yes.

I am running a very safe and rich tune....yes.

When i can i will get this boost controller installed, and we will be emailing STS for some help with data tuning to get it sorta figured out.

When all is said and done, this car will produce around 750hp crank hp.

If that requires a different turbo...so be it...if it requires different injectors and/or a different fuel pump, so be it.

This car will produce Audi *** kicking numbers soon.

fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 08:18 AM   #74
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

"1. replace the 1 bar MAP Sensor with a 2 bar MAP Sensor (which will require additional tuning...but will allow more customization and timing advancement in lower rpm scenario's where my low compression motor struggles).

2. put a heat shield on the turbo

3. bump the boost up quite a ways from the 5# it's currently at (i have an electronic boost controller not installed yet)

4. consider changing my rear end gear set from the 3.90 it's currently at to something longer to put the turbo under load sooner in rpm band

Saw these ideas on the local f body board.
All look like good ones.
You could also send out turbo exhaust housing to top gun coating in calgary I did that with mine ,coated up the my exhaust manifolds and my turbo exhaust housing.
heat shield is likely a good idea too.
Yeah you do have a lot of gear at 3.90.
3.42 when had those when my car was still a manual seemed to work pretty good but with the cubes you have could likley go down more 3.23, 3.08 ,2.73. Check out what other similar setup cars are running should help you pick a set that will work good for you.

So no chance you would go to auto with your car?

I am not overly thrilled with 3.54 but currently have no choice thats lowest the dana can take. On the auto still builds boost fast, maybe too fast! even in the lower gears. With the stall and two step bet could leave at 20 psi or more if wanted too.
Of course normally with manual cars you use a two step to build boost off the line.
Used to using those on my manual talons.
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 12:40 AM   #75
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

I'm not sure what a 3.23 or 3.08 gear would do to driveability.

I will talk to STS and a local trans shop and see what they recommend.

I am looking into the 2 bar setup, but haven't made any decisions yet.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:00 PM   #76
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

So any updates?
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 02:10 AM   #77
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Nope...i have been working since i last posted. I am working all day Thurs and i am hoping to call STS Friday (2 days from now) and see what they say.

In terms of actual hands on progress, i am a few weeks away from touching my car...though i hope to get a run in my car with my wife filming at some point if things work out (as a baseline).

Next up will be the installation of the electronic boost controller when i can get to it....then tuning.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2012, 01:21 AM   #78
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

Well it's been an interesting chunk of time since i last posted in July.

1. My car was running alright on the 5# spring and the 3.90 gears. I had the wife come with me for a drive and she couldn't videotape worth a crap.

2. For noise reasons and the exhaust leak reasons, this is what my exhaust looks like from the exhaust manifolds to turbo (for those interested):







I love the color on the exhaust flange in this photo



3. I had a local transmission shop swap out the 3.90's for 3.42's and it made a big enough difference. I couldn't get a 3.23 gear in a 12 bolt rear end which my car has and i didn't want to go 2.73's with a manual.

I've driven the car 3 times since getting the 3.42's in and my engine now hesitates once in boost (most noticeable in 2nd though the upper gears)...and the red SES light flickers on and off very rapidly and faintly...i barely noticed it but it's there.

I tried slowly accelerating the engine to 5,000rpms and not getting into boost and the motor doesn't hesitate...so i don't know what's going on. What i do know is i threw a P0301 code on the 1st run home, i cleared it and it's been gone since...but the hesitation is still there.

3. I finally got around to physically installing the STS Electronic Boost Controller. I forgot how little space i had to work with as there is so much other junk on the underside of my car. Regardless, i got everything hooked up except for the wiring...i'm going to let someone who knows more about wiring than i do finish this off. Here's what i did with my Boost Controller parts:

fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2012, 01:23 AM   #79
On The Tree
Thread Starter
 
fstr n u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 124
Default

I also picked up a 2 bar MAP sensor which we will get installed soon.

Rick Squires also created a 2 bar tune for my car to start with which i will get uploaded after the MAP sensor gets in place.

I'm hoping this engine hesitation issue is nothing major...but i'll keep you posted.
fstr n u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2012, 08:13 AM   #80
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
MY99TAWS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kelowna,BC
Posts: 4,722
Default

3.42 should help some.I had them at first with my stock rear end with my manual. They were decent ratio. I like a bit of snap off the line especially with a stick.

I have 3.54 now with the 4l80e. Being an auto I could go down somemore I think a 3.23,3.08 or maybe a 2.73 would be bit nicer and quieter less rpm on the highway but the Dana 60 only allows 3.54 lowest so stuck with them.

Of course with 6 speed manual you have that extra sixth gear so can drop revs more and as said be quieter on highway than my 4 speed 4l80e. Wish had put in a 6l80E maybe at some point in the future if keep the car will put one in but don't do much long highway driving anyway, the trip to Kelowna was longest trip likely take although still might drive to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary or possibly Mission BC track with the car for tuning ,dynoing and racing.
Also wonder if gas mileage would improve a lot if did have 3.42,3.23,3.08 or 2.73. Its not that great with the 3.54 but do tend to play with the boost on the highway which don't help mileage and my tune is still on the rich safe side still a base tune.

Anyway good on your gear swap. Are things quieter now so far?They were bit noisy before?
I have some decel whine with my dana 60 and gears. Not really any accel whine.I still think may have the gears swapped out to different ones and see if can get quieter. Its not horrible loud on decel and can drown it out pretty easily with exhaust,and stereo and heater fan motor.

As for your symptoms under boost ,po301 is misfire cylinder one. Pretty sure that is first cylinder in front drivers side . Forget already been awhile. Likely you have wire off, or defective or burnt or something.While if wires are fubar you will usually get machine gun type noises when you floor it and it goes into boost. You may also have a plug that is not firing right.
I would gap the plug and you have to gap down for boost or you will blow them out, change the plug,you should be running colder than stock now ,number one is easy to get and your sts system is nice easy to get to the plugs . And if you have spare ignition wire put it on and if not depending on mileage I would change out all wires. Most guys run msd or factory wires or gm performance red wires. This problem is likely wire. You could swap wires and see if the problem goes to another cylinder.
I have had nearly identical problems with my car when had problems with wires ,my expensive as hell granatelli wires were fubar and had few other instances with other wires causing misfire and popping.
What is bit strange is that thought misfire codes don't read when you go to speed density.
Are you still running a maf? I usually have to play around and go back to maf to see misfire codes on my setup.
You can't run a maf at your power levels sure you are beyond it or will be as soon as you turn the boost up more. You have to run speed density.
Also you might be past 60 pound injectors pretty soon as well. You will need to go 80s. 80s can be tricky to get to run right. I found solution in my car was to run open loop speed density all the time with the 80s. I got the 60s to run perfect with closed loop speed density.
There are new super expensive huge injectors that work well supposedly but they are like 2000 bucks a set or something retarded. I also have a set of 120 low impedence that idle like stock but have to add in extra wiring and injector converter box and not much room in my engine compartment with the nitrous and my turbo setup. So just been running normal 80s. Course haven't had the car protuned yet.

Anyway if that misfire is accurate check number one and you should have this problem fixed quick. Borrow some wires off other ls1 buddy, Ck or whoever lots of them in your city.

Should be fun with that boost controller. Still have to hook up my eboost. Its just hooked to monitor not control still and running 10psi base spring currently.

I have not driven my car in Kelowna yet except when brought it home. Still have to do safety. I had problem with pop up headlight finally figured out its connector. Ordered one from gm should be here next week. Have to bolt on et street radials to pass safety as think my toyo drag radials are likey worn down too far and have to bolt on my kooks catted ypipe to pass as well. No aircare crap thank god in Kelowna. So with luck have it safetied up in next week and still be able to get some drive time in this season. Fortunate of course to have longer drive season in Kelowna than back in Sask.

Anyway good to see all the progress with your car, follow it on here and on the f body board as well.
MY99TAWS6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LS1 Piston Display First Try fstr n u Appearance & Detailing 3 04-23-2016 08:20 AM
4th Gen STS MBC setup questions/pics...help needed. fstr n u Forced Induction 0 05-10-2014 12:36 AM
STS Rear Mount Dyno with 67mm and 76mm comparison fstr n u Dynamometer Results & Comparisons 5 09-05-2013 02:29 AM
1998 Fbody Fuel Pump Regulator questions fstr n u Fueling & Injection 21 05-05-2012 04:10 PM
My Engine Bay NINO_SS Appearance & Detailing 18 10-04-2010 09:56 PM


Tags
1998, adr, build, building, camaro, catalytic, converter, forum, fuse, intake, ls1, ls2, put, sts, wheels, z28

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:00 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send