WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

ok, i've searched about every related thread known to man on crank sensors, no starts and 6010, and even msd tech forums.

i am getting no spark, 10.6v cranking voltage, no rpm readout on dash/gauge display on laptop msd prodata software.



i'm leaning towards the crankshaft position sensor, i back-probed the yellow/orange wire at the main msd connector, and have little to no voltage readout while cranking. by little to none i mean its just ranging in mV .45-.49, which its probably just my fluke meter not measuring anything, i have 12v source and grounds hooked up correctly, good voltage all around.

setup -

347
eagle rods
diamond pistons
dart 225 heads
big hyd roller, (bigger than ms4) custom grind
vic jr
quick fuel 850
hooker stepped headers

intial timing - 12deg until 800 rpm, then 28 deg by 2000rm, 33 by 2200, 32 @ 5100, back up to 34 the rest of the way.

im going to try changing the crank sensor as soon as i get my hands on one, have to swap out water pumps to a new one, this old one i got is junk. does anyone have any inputs on things i should address, change, look into.. im new to the whole carb situation.


thanks,
Nick

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

forgot to mention, battery is up front, its the ext18, brand new battery - grounded to motor mount, then jumper from mount to frame rail, power directly off batt to starter and alt. - i had the msd hooked up to key on 12v source, switched that to 12v hot all time to check, and also grounded msd to frame/rail.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

I run my ground lead to a good chassis ground, and 10 gauge power wires and ground wires on my box....never had an issue with spark, sure it's overkill but the box will always have voltage, my cranking voltage is much higher than yours, hook up another car that is running with jumper cables and see if it fires. I'm pressure it's 11.8 volts while cranking from what I saw on my msd tables today since I was changing out timing curves.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

I suppose It can't hurt to give that a shot either, I did however hook it up to a charger on "engine start" mode, and my deep cycle marine battery out of my boat, and still no luck. But I'll give that a shot. I'm still leaning towards bad crank sensor, due to no cranking rpm showing up while cranking.

chris-m

when i tried to start my new ls6 block i had a complete nightmare getting the msd 6010 box to spark, as the engine was tight. the 12v battery was good, and the cranking speed appeared ok. still no spark. we had 2 batteries in parallel to give 12v with lots of cranking current and still no spark. after 3 nights of charging batteries etc etc it still would not fire.

i read the forums, spoke to msd etc, no real definate answer other than the cranking speed had to be fairly high for the msd to see the initial engine revolutions and sync up the crank and cam sensors. we had tried heavy gauge cable direct to the starter motor and also direct 12v to the solenoid, bypassing the car wiring completely and it still would not spark with the plugs in, as the compression was high enough to slow down the starter rpms. with the plugs out, the engine would spark on all plugs. put 3 or 4 plugs back and the spark would disapear, as the engine cranking speed dropped slightly.

i ended up testing a theory out that worked 1st time within 3 seconds of cranking- we rigged up two large batteries in series to give 24v and "flashed" the starter motor at 24v. it absolutely whizzed round, and the engine fired up immediately with all the plugs in.
you cant hold that sort of voltage onto the starter motor for very long as it will burn the widndings out, but it proved a point. once the intial 2 mins of engine running was done and the engine was warming we killed it, and then tried the normal starter 12v off the car battery and solenoid, which then worked perfectly

this might help i hope, if all your sensors, coil packs and plugs are good
regards
chris

chris-m

also to confirm my msd box showed no cranking rpm all the time we were trying 12v starting due to the cranking speed being low.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

Will running 24v hurt anything? Do I have to wire starter, 24v directly and isolate it from the rest of the electtical system using only 12volts?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

lol, nothing in your electrical system will like the 24 volts, you could "maybe" try it with just the starter, but everything else may fry.

chris-m

you must remove all your loom wiring from the starter solenoid, and feed the starter direct from the 24v source using heavy duty cable, and rig the starter solenoid off 12v direct from one battery, so that the solenoid only sees 12v, thats all it needs. the 24v cant be held on for long, but the engine needs a couple of revolutions to sync the crank and cam sensors to the msd box thats all
i was very wary of spinning it over too long at 24v, and just held the 12v solenoid feed to the battery by hand, and pulled it away quickly as soon as the engine fired.
it literally took seconds at a fast cranking speed to fire, after 3 wasted nights with decent 12v batteries and cranking it! good luck, go carefully.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

alright so i swapped out crank sensors, now i have a varying voltage between revolutions of about 3-6volts or something of the sort, i tried wiring my starter directly with the batteries that i had laying around, one being my old pc680 and my deep cycle from the boat, this being said, im pretty sure both batteries are junk, because neither will turn the car over hooked up solo to my starter, and together, as 24v i get a brief crank from the starter and then it clicks. this being said im pretty sure the two junk batteries combined to 24v dont have enough amperage to crank the starter.

my next plan of action tomorrow is to do a few things-

-take 2 known good 12v batteries (one from my jeep, and another from my buddies accord) wire them up in a series on the ground and jump them (24v) to the starter to see if this may solve my problem.

-im going to look over the msd wiring diagram and check to see if msd box is firing the coils by back probing the harness going to the coils from the msd. - i'm still not recieving spark, and although its a long shot, i guess a possibility that my coil packs are shot/or the wiring for them is bunk and thats why im not getting spark??

what i dont understand tho is after swapping all the connections for power/ground for my msd box, checking all grounds/12v verification and all - i'm still not seeing any "cranking rpm" while cranking on the msd software program.

-my cranking voltage today with my battery and a charger on "engine start" was near 11.1-11.3volts. and the motor is spinning pretty quick when turning over, not like chugging over and over. its actually cranking very fast and still no spark.

any other suggestions? could my msd box be bad? im gonna light this thing on fire soon or smoke 79 packs of cigarettes trying to figure out this damn box. its never been used before, was purchased about 2 yrs back, sat boxed up until last month.

thanks, appologize for the long post.

a side note -

installed a brand new waterpump today, drilled the top of the pump and tapped it for a nipple to connect my ls6 x-over pipe.

installed my new metco oil breather.

and at least all that worked out, guess i got that going for me

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

UPDATE:

- i didnt change a f*cking thing, had the battery on 10amp charger, was cranking over to check cam sensor output, and baaaam, fires right up.. who knows what happened or changed but it works now!

this thing sounds mean, sounds like its got 100 or so more cubes than it really does. now i gotta set fuel pressure and get this thing to idle on its own.

any tips to tunning this carb, its a quick fuel 850 w/ proform main body, im pretty new at this whole carb ordeal but i set the 4 metering screws 1-1/2 turns out, as for the floats, dunno much bout them but it appears that they're set w/ the sight glass half full from the factory.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

floats should be at bottom of sight glass and 1.5 turns out is probably pretty rich, pull a plug and look at it and readjust them. Or tune the mixture screws for best idle vacuum in gear if auto, in neutral for stick. You would turn all 4 in 1/8th turn and recheck idle vacuum to see if it increases. As you lean it out you will also have to close the throttle blades a bit slowly.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

-update-

car is now running, waiting on some rear lca's and umi drag bar. Just got the converter and th400 put in the other day. just need to finishing bleeding the brakes, get the suspension all buttoned up and get it to the alignment shop.

3pedals

iTrader: (3)

good to hear you got it running, does it start normally now?
My 6012 box(2nd one) still refuses to accept a cam sensor signal. mine starts, but only every second time(or so) I crank the engine, and the laptop shows cam sensor fail every time. my cam sensor is fine.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

Glad to hear you popped it off and its running now, just had mine out at the track this past weekend.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

Yes it starts normally now, dunn what I did that made it start but its A-OK now. Yep its getting there, need to get my driveshaft made then hopefully its all good and I can do some trans brake hits on grand ave before the snow falls.. How did the track go for ya? I was gonna try n go down to cordova but had to work a big shutdown n pull in some crazy overtime.

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)

- i love the way it sits now, cut 1.5 coils off the rear springs and adjusted the qa1's up front. i think its good for the track, if i street drive it often it might be too low. what ya guys think? too low or no..

xpndbl3

iTrader: (23)

get a better pic in daylight from the side, i can't see the gaps

WhiteLTone

iTrader: (18)