Dirt track LS
02-24-2011, 09:03 PM
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Dirt track LS 
Currently I'm running a 377 ci SBC.
Dart Little M block
Brodix aluminum heads
T&D shaft mounts
8500-9000 rpm
630 hp
I'd like to make a change to the LS engine because I'm sure the power potential and durability is much better, but I'm not totally sure the best way to go about it. The cars are 2400 lbs and use a hard 8 inch tire, so they have to be driveable when the track goes slick, but when the track is grippy you need a lot of power because the suspensions really plant the tires...
Ideas?
Here's the rules:
ARTICLE 16: ENGINE
16.1 Must be able to be used in conventional passenger car without alteration. Motor mounts may not be removed or altered. Machine work on outside of block, or on front or rear of camshaft, is not allowed.
16.2 Total “dry sump” systems are not allowed. “Wet” system must be operative.
16.3 Modification of cooling system is permitted. Radiators and oil coolers may not protrude above deck.
16.4 Any American make may be used. Rear of engine (bell housing flange) must be mounted at least seventy-two (72) inches forward from the center line of the rear axle – NO TOLERANCE.
16.5 Offset must be within two (2) inches of centerline of front cross member.
16.6 Must be a minimum of eleven (11) inches from ground to front center of crankshaft.
16.7 Steel blocks only –aluminum and/or titanium are not allowed.
16.8 Overflow tubes must be directed toward the ground and inside the frame rails.
16.9 Radiator must be mounted in front of engine.
16.10 Wiring elements must be accessible for technical inspection. Any racecar advancing spots and missing will be subject to disqualification.
16.11 Tri-Y headers are permitted, but cannot contain stainless steel.
16.12 Exhaust system and/or mufflers must be mounted in such a way as to direct spent gases away from the cockpit and away from areas of possible fuel spillage.
16.13 Mufflers may be required at track's discretion.
16.14 Roller cams are permitted.
16.15 Stud girdles and shaft rockers are permitted.
ARTICLE 10: FUEL SYSTEM
10.1 Fuel:
10.1.1 Must be automotive gasoline or alcohol only. Additives of any kind are not allowed. E85 ethanol or racing fuel is permitted. Penalty for illegal fuel is loss of points, cash and awards earned for that event.
10.1.2 May not be blended with ethers or other oxygenates, and may not be blended with aniline or its derivatives, nitro compounds or other nitro containing compounds. Oxygenated fuel is not allowed.
10.2 Electric fuel pumps are not allowed.
10.3 Carburetor:
10.3.1 One (1) two-barrel, four-barrel or Predator carburetor properly installed will be permitted.
10.3.2 Must be naturally aspirated.
10.3.3 Fuel injection is not allowed.
10.3.4 An adapter with gasket is permitted. Adapter and gasket combined may be no more than two and one-quarter (2.25) inches.
9.1 Battery:
9.1.1 Must be securely mounted and covered.
9.1.2 One (1) 12-volt or 16-volt battery is permitted.
9.1.3 Voltage converters are not allowed.
9.1.4 Positive battery posts must be covered.
9.2 Ignition:
9.2.1 Magnetos and/or crank-triggered ignitions are not allowed.
9.2.2 One (1) coil only is permitted.
9.2.3 Kill switch required within easy reach of the driver. The switch must be clearly marked “off” and “on”.
9.2.4 MSD ignition boxes shall be subject to claim, as outlined in Claim Procedures (Article 19).
How would you build this?
Last edited by HRJ; 02-24-2011 at 09:08 PM.
02-24-2011, 11:02 PM
#3
Well, I have always dreamed of seeing an LS on dirt. I grew up around it. My father, uncle, grandfather have all raced. Google my uncle (Ronnie Weedon) and check out his past.
You will probably have to check with your track or sanctioning body to see if they would allow this engine in the first place. Mainly because you are altering its original ignition placement. If it flies I would go with an LQ9, do the distributor kit and carbed intake for rectangle ports. Since this is an open wheel I would assume a Methanol or if allowed E85 carb. And then I would get the best set of heads allowed and affordable to you. If you are allowed aftermarket blocks, go with the LSX. I think Speedway has the bell housing you need to mate the trans. I dunno if you run a Brinn or something else. With the right head/cam, rotator combo you can make good power under 8000rpm and not have to do too many rebuilds. It'll be up to you to hook all the power up.
You will probably have to check with your track or sanctioning body to see if they would allow this engine in the first place. Mainly because you are altering its original ignition placement. If it flies I would go with an LQ9, do the distributor kit and carbed intake for rectangle ports. Since this is an open wheel I would assume a Methanol or if allowed E85 carb. And then I would get the best set of heads allowed and affordable to you. If you are allowed aftermarket blocks, go with the LSX. I think Speedway has the bell housing you need to mate the trans. I dunno if you run a Brinn or something else. With the right head/cam, rotator combo you can make good power under 8000rpm and not have to do too many rebuilds. It'll be up to you to hook all the power up.
02-24-2011, 11:45 PM
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02-25-2011, 06:23 AM
#9
If 630 HP is competitive in your class, I would think you could build an LS to give you an advantage..wont be cheap.
above 8000 RPM you need to scrap the stock oil pump and crank trigger ignition.
Aviaid makes an external wet sump pump ( I use this one) with a modified moroso pan and an ATI road race (ASA) balancer and pump drive
Use a stock bore LS2 Iron block(4.005 bore)
Trick flow is making an L92 rectangle port head with the 12 degree LS7 valve angle to work on a 4' bore and use L92 manifolds, they flow 360 CFM+
I run the ALL Pro LS7 heads from West Coast Cylinder Heads, these need at least a 4.125 bore(LSX block)...more $$$ but they work..
Use a Callies stock stroke crank, 6.125 rods, Wiseco can produce a custom piston to acheive 13/1 or so...
Front mount distributor and belt driven water pump from GMPP.
Solid Roller valve train, I used Cam Motion, Isky lifters and Jesel rockers
Mast Motorsports hi rise CNC intake.
2" headers with 3.5 collectors..
needs 1000 cfm carb....
about 730-750 at 8500 rpm.
Dave
above 8000 RPM you need to scrap the stock oil pump and crank trigger ignition.
Aviaid makes an external wet sump pump ( I use this one) with a modified moroso pan and an ATI road race (ASA) balancer and pump drive
Use a stock bore LS2 Iron block(4.005 bore)
Trick flow is making an L92 rectangle port head with the 12 degree LS7 valve angle to work on a 4' bore and use L92 manifolds, they flow 360 CFM+
I run the ALL Pro LS7 heads from West Coast Cylinder Heads, these need at least a 4.125 bore(LSX block)...more $$$ but they work..
Use a Callies stock stroke crank, 6.125 rods, Wiseco can produce a custom piston to acheive 13/1 or so...
Front mount distributor and belt driven water pump from GMPP.
Solid Roller valve train, I used Cam Motion, Isky lifters and Jesel rockers
Mast Motorsports hi rise CNC intake.
2" headers with 3.5 collectors..
needs 1000 cfm carb....
about 730-750 at 8500 rpm.
Dave
02-26-2011, 02:54 PM
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Example image..
If 630 HP is competitive in your class, I would think you could build an LS to give you an advantage..wont be cheap.
above 8000 RPM you need to scrap the stock oil pump and crank trigger ignition.
Aviaid makes an external wet sump pump ( I use this one) with a modified moroso pan and an ATI road race (ASA) balancer and pump drive
Use a stock bore LS2 Iron block(4.005 bore)
Trick flow is making an L92 rectangle port head with the 12 degree LS7 valve angle to work on a 4' bore and use L92 manifolds, they flow 360 CFM+
I run the ALL Pro LS7 heads from West Coast Cylinder Heads, these need at least a 4.125 bore(LSX block)...more $$$ but they work..
Use a Callies stock stroke crank, 6.125 rods, Wiseco can produce a custom piston to acheive 13/1 or so...
Front mount distributor and belt driven water pump from GMPP.
Solid Roller valve train, I used Cam Motion, Isky lifters and Jesel rockers
Mast Motorsports hi rise CNC intake.
2" headers with 3.5 collectors..
needs 1000 cfm carb....
about 730-750 at 8500 rpm.
Dave
above 8000 RPM you need to scrap the stock oil pump and crank trigger ignition.
Aviaid makes an external wet sump pump ( I use this one) with a modified moroso pan and an ATI road race (ASA) balancer and pump drive
Use a stock bore LS2 Iron block(4.005 bore)
Trick flow is making an L92 rectangle port head with the 12 degree LS7 valve angle to work on a 4' bore and use L92 manifolds, they flow 360 CFM+
I run the ALL Pro LS7 heads from West Coast Cylinder Heads, these need at least a 4.125 bore(LSX block)...more $$$ but they work..
Use a Callies stock stroke crank, 6.125 rods, Wiseco can produce a custom piston to acheive 13/1 or so...
Front mount distributor and belt driven water pump from GMPP.
Solid Roller valve train, I used Cam Motion, Isky lifters and Jesel rockers
Mast Motorsports hi rise CNC intake.
2" headers with 3.5 collectors..
needs 1000 cfm carb....
about 730-750 at 8500 rpm.
Dave
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm looking them over pretty hard.
03-02-2011, 09:40 AM
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I just did a 402 for this exact kind of car. Used an iron 6.0 block, GM distributor front cover, Dart 225 heads, Super Victor, 12.5:1 compression, solid roller COMP valvetrain, shaft rockers, etc. You need to get the KRC motor mounts for a CT525 ($65-70 from Speedway) to put the centerline of the motor mounts in the exact same location as a traditional SBC, and you need a crankshaft bolt pattern adapter from Maverick Performance http://www.wintersperformance.com/Maverick/ which will let you use your old drive flange and flywheel. These parts work great together and will let you drop the LS right into your chassis. What chassis is it? Just wondering. Also Schoenfeld makes a couple different sets of headers for modified chassis, about $300. Call Doug Lee at Pro-Pan for an aluminum oil pan and fabricated valve covers. The car it's going in has a KSE tandem pump like what you pictured so there's nothing on the front of the motor but the w/p pullies. We'd love to do one in a Bowtie block with a stock stroke crank for 388ci, I think it'd be excellent in a modified. Depending on your wheel base, the only issue you might run into will be the length of the front of the motor and your fan to radiator clearance.
Our engine out the door for a customer would be around $11500-12000, and that includes ignition and pullies.
Our engine out the door for a customer would be around $11500-12000, and that includes ignition and pullies.
Last edited by driver56; 03-02-2011 at 09:57 AM. Reason: edit to add
03-07-2011, 10:11 PM
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Neat to see this brought up. I drive a mod at Devil's Bowl Speedway in Mesquite, Tx, and have been thinking of going this route myself. Our current sbc's are in the 590-600rwhp range, but I know lsx's have more potential than that. Our 23* steel sbc heads are very fragile by the time we get them to the 320-330cfm area and it would be nice to go to a more solid platform with heads that are capable of a lot more flow.
Our rules have always only allowed the 23* steel heads, but for 2011 have opened up to allow aluminum as well. This got me thinking a lsx might be the ticket, especially with most competitors I know not knowing of their potential.
Sorry for the poor pic quality, but here is a shot of my weekend ride:
Our rules have always only allowed the 23* steel heads, but for 2011 have opened up to allow aluminum as well. This got me thinking a lsx might be the ticket, especially with most competitors I know not knowing of their potential.
Sorry for the poor pic quality, but here is a shot of my weekend ride:
03-08-2011, 12:51 PM
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Another bit of info for guys running rear mount pumps, Fletcher Made Horsepower has a billet front cover that omits the fuel pump boss that lets them move the distributor closer to the engine by 1 to 1 1/2 inches, shortening up the front of the motor to give more fan-to-radiator clearance. The billet cover is very expensive but a cast version is on the way soon. Talk to Chad at Fletcher Made, nice guy.
