Top 10 reasons I ditched EFI
12-18-2011, 11:59 AM
#21
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Y'all have deeper pockets than me. I can swing $300 for a carb, but coming up with $1550?
I guess it depends on where your starting point is. I'd have needed O2 sensors, a throttle body, cleaning or replacing injectors, etc. etc. etc.
I'm in Florida and I like to run a 165 thermostat, IIRC the OEM EFI gets stuck in open loop waiting for temp. Dunno about the Holley.
I guess it depends on where your starting point is. I'd have needed O2 sensors, a throttle body, cleaning or replacing injectors, etc. etc. etc.
I'm in Florida and I like to run a 165 thermostat, IIRC the OEM EFI gets stuck in open loop waiting for temp. Dunno about the Holley.
12-18-2011, 02:28 PM
#22
The holley can accommodate whatever thermostat you want it to.
I dont want to argue with anyone and tell them they should run the holley efi, , ****, I run a carb, because I have 2 good carbs, and I already have a carb fuel system - it didnt make economic sense for me, but for comparison - carb $300(assume you can get 1 for that, intake $350, msd $350 = $1000.
holley efi - $1550 to do the same thing but with efi not carb, and it TUNES IT's SELF!!!!, carb cant do that.
I just wanted to get the point accross, that for about $500 bucks more than a carb setup, you can have a better efi system than the oem.
I will sell my 850 Mighty Demon/ VicJrL92intake/MSD6012 to anyone who wants it, then I can go this route.
Barrett
I dont want to argue with anyone and tell them they should run the holley efi, , ****, I run a carb, because I have 2 good carbs, and I already have a carb fuel system - it didnt make economic sense for me, but for comparison - carb $300(assume you can get 1 for that, intake $350, msd $350 = $1000.
holley efi - $1550 to do the same thing but with efi not carb, and it TUNES IT's SELF!!!!, carb cant do that.
I just wanted to get the point accross, that for about $500 bucks more than a carb setup, you can have a better efi system than the oem.
I will sell my 850 Mighty Demon/ VicJrL92intake/MSD6012 to anyone who wants it, then I can go this route.
Barrett
12-19-2011, 12:52 PM
#26
Here are my top reasons.
1. Car already had a low pressure aftermarket electric fuel pump
2. Already had an 800cfm 'double pumper' sitting on the workbench (got it for no $ and rebuilt it myself for $50 in parts)
3. A used MSD was cheap (less than $200)
4. The Vic Jr intake was about $800 cheaper than a FAST intake
5. Car is not a daily driver
6. Wanted to run a cheap plate nitrous system
7. Did not have to upgrade injectors
8. Because Racecar.
1. Car already had a low pressure aftermarket electric fuel pump
2. Already had an 800cfm 'double pumper' sitting on the workbench (got it for no $ and rebuilt it myself for $50 in parts)
3. A used MSD was cheap (less than $200)
4. The Vic Jr intake was about $800 cheaper than a FAST intake
5. Car is not a daily driver
6. Wanted to run a cheap plate nitrous system
7. Did not have to upgrade injectors
8. Because Racecar.
12-19-2011, 01:55 PM
#27
Boy I guess I am just not seeing the savings you guys are talking about. "Start from scratch" must mean you have an EFI intake with working injectors. And I'm guessing it better not be a drive by wire throttle body or your replacing that too. Saves you the cost of a tune and possible heartburn from a harness mod but not much more than that.
I started with a carb'd crate motor. I got the coilpacks and a single plane intake with nothing else. Putting a Holley EFI on probably would have taken another $2k to $3k.
I started with a carb'd crate motor. I got the coilpacks and a single plane intake with nothing else. Putting a Holley EFI on probably would have taken another $2k to $3k.
12-21-2011, 01:37 PM
#30
If it is efi stock or 96 up, leave it efi, otherwise carbed is cheaper and puts out. Unless you are a moron, then stick with efi since you cannot spin a screwdriver any way.
Now down to brass tacks, there is carb tech out that is newer than 99% of the efi that will go head to head, so this argument will never end.
Now down to brass tacks, there is carb tech out that is newer than 99% of the efi that will go head to head, so this argument will never end.
12-21-2011, 05:09 PM
#31
TECH Resident
12-21-2011, 08:48 PM
#33
I agree 150% with grey86hatch, the holley HP efi is the way to go. As soon as budget allows I will do it.
The holley unit is PERFECT for someone who want s to stuff an LS into a vehicle that didnt come with one. For $1500ish, the holley ecu and wire harness will plug into every factory sensor that comes on a junkyard ls, and all you need to so is supply 12v, ground, and fuel pressure. The holley efi tunes itself with the wideband O2, so you just decide what your target A/F is, and it hits those targets for you and saves the tune in memmory. It also controls the coilpack igniton.
I like my carb, but there really is NO COMPARISON, and if you start from scratch the completed holley efi is not much more $$$ than a complete carb setup.
Barrett
The holley unit is PERFECT for someone who want s to stuff an LS into a vehicle that didnt come with one. For $1500ish, the holley ecu and wire harness will plug into every factory sensor that comes on a junkyard ls, and all you need to so is supply 12v, ground, and fuel pressure. The holley efi tunes itself with the wideband O2, so you just decide what your target A/F is, and it hits those targets for you and saves the tune in memmory. It also controls the coilpack igniton.
I like my carb, but there really is NO COMPARISON, and if you start from scratch the completed holley efi is not much more $$$ than a complete carb setup.
Barrett
12-21-2011, 09:34 PM
#34
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Having done these swaps both ways i would never do a carb setup unless it was a race only setup. The holley stuff is killer for sure but guys have been how fast on stock ecu's? This is just another ford vs chevy, my dad vs your dad, my dicks bigger argument that will never end.
12-21-2011, 09:42 PM
#35
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no to mention the fact that you dont develop gremlins with all the extra wiring the greater the chance for a broken pinched or shorted wire bad pin connection ect ect that will drive you insane when it comes time to chasing one down in the side of the road.. let the japanese car guys deal with that when nascar runs a efi so will I...lol
12-21-2011, 09:51 PM
#36
IMO, the way that carb users have broadly adopted the use of wide-band O2 tuning seems like an indicator that there is a willingness to modernize and use technology if it helps achieve a better outcome. Through the use of some modern technology, carb tuning has never been more on-point and effective.
Personally, I am way more comfortable with carb tech. However, with the way EFI technology is becoming much more user friendly it sure gets tempting to join the 21st century.
Case in point is the new Atomic EFI unit from MSD. It is pretty darn simple in its packaging and operation.
Though to be more accurate, it is more like an electronic carb than true fuel injection.
http://www.atomicefi.com/home.aspx
Personally, I am way more comfortable with carb tech. However, with the way EFI technology is becoming much more user friendly it sure gets tempting to join the 21st century.
Case in point is the new Atomic EFI unit from MSD. It is pretty darn simple in its packaging and operation.
Though to be more accurate, it is more like an electronic carb than true fuel injection.
http://www.atomicefi.com/home.aspx
Last edited by topbrent; 12-22-2011 at 05:07 AM.
12-21-2011, 10:31 PM
#37
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no to mention the fact that you dont develop gremlins with all the extra wiring the greater the chance for a broken pinched or shorted wire bad pin connection ect ect that will drive you insane when it comes time to chasing one down in the side of the road.. let the japanese car guys deal with that when nascar runs a efi so will I...lol
12-21-2011, 11:48 PM
#38
TECH Resident
You guys forgot the number one reason to run a carb. 
There is something great about being the simple, average joe, underdog and beating up on all that expensive (EFI) technology with a win.
There is something great about being the simple, average joe, underdog and beating up on all that expensive (EFI) technology with a win.
Last edited by Paul57; 12-22-2011 at 04:06 PM.
12-22-2011, 08:30 AM
#39
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs...b-94c306baf5ff
Sorry, man. Couldn't resist.
I still don't see how the Holley unit is cost effective. But enough thread hyjack. It would definitely be slick.
12-22-2011, 03:41 PM
#40
Let us compare how many of us carb guys tune out own rides and then compare to the HUGE percent that are fuel injected that have to have/buy and tune ect.
It is probably opposite, 95% carb guys tuning their own **** vs 5% of the efi guys tuning their own ****.
It is what it is, and Carbs and intakes look better to most. Efi looks like it can kick ***, carb looks like it is fixing to go do it.
Nothing wrong with either one by any means, but budget and carb with performance in mind can be easily had in the same sentence if it is a pre 96 vehicle, just cheaper to get down the road making the most power, that is comparing new for new or used for used, carbed parts are cheaper. And used Carbs are a dime a dozen if you use regular old 750-850 holleys, they work well and any i you do a rebuild and cut the choke horn, that is the beauty of a budget carbed setup.
But efi is better for economy, but it is not a huge difference over a carb, when tuned. But a cold freezing day will show a carb what's up on initial start when the carb is non choke provision, usually. There are some that are dialed in to where it can not even be noticeable, but then there are the ton of guys I have shown up, their almighty efi started and died several times after we had been sitting for hours(blame the tune, duh), then I bump the key and the old non choked carb fires and idles like they wish they could, priceless.