my two cents: (well.....mebbe a couple of dimes......)

First, I'm very pleased that there are so many people who feel so passionately about the Firebird. That's great. I will never say "there will never be a new Firebird"....because "never" is a long time. Now...don't go saying "OMG....He said there's gonna be a new Firebird!!!".....I did not say that.

Here's what I will say: The market today is not a level playing field. Many countries assign huge tarriffs to GM and Ford cars when they land on foreign soil. The United States does not assign a tarriff on imported cars. That to me is a problem......

Second.....the "pie" if you will (The U.S. Automotive Market) stays relatively level. However, there are more and more manufacturers coming into this market. With more players, the 'pieces' of the pie are smaller...which means that Ford and GM and DCX are getting smaller pieces of the pie. Now......if the 2-door market were huge...I could justify having a Camaro and a Monte Carlo and a Grand Prix and a Firebird and a Cobalt and a G6 coupe and a GTO....but guess what? Coupe sales continue in a downward spiral. Thus, it does not make any business sense to continue to offer a wide range of coupes. (don't forget that there's also Saturn coupe and Saab coupe)......go look at the number of Ford and DCX coupes available today.

Make no mistake.......there's nothing I'd like better than to have a market where there could be a Camaro and a Firebird (and the other coupes) and GM could make money building them all.........

 

None have been released as of yet. We are all going to get a good look at a concept that's going to be shown at the Detroit show coming up here soon. It may or may not be a close rendition to what the new Camaro will look like.

 

Well, I personally hope they don't choose to go the retro route. It's starting to get played out. I'd like to see a new slim/sleek futuristic design on the new car.

 

I can totally understand why GM would feel that way it makes complete business sense to condense the different lines. GM should have done that in much broader scope a long time ago. Their current financial situation could have been avoided if they had foreseen the need for that.

However what I don't get is why they decided to throw away what had been working well for so long and start again with something completely different (and inferior IMO). I think the cobalt, GTO, et al (the new stuff) are rather weak offerings compared to the F-body. Throughout almost the whole of its existence, the F-body cars represented a sense of style, performance, fun, and distinction not found in any other midrange priced car.

For the kind of market they were designed for (mostly younger professionals/ enthusiasts interested in a performance coupe) they were a truly dynamic choice. I can only guess at the reason GM did not see them this way towards the end. If the 4th Gen F-Body had received even a fraction of the advertising dollars the cobalt, GTO, et al have, they would have been wildly successful. It is a statement to the quality of the cars that they sold as well as they did with the pathetically lackluster treatment given to them by GM.

So if GM thinks that there is no market for the car, I must disagree. Ford has clearly shown since 02 that there is indeed a very large market for this kind of car. GM has just yielded nearly the entire market to Ford by failing to capitaltize on what a stellar offering the F-Body was.

While I am disappointed like others that the Firebird won't be returning, if GM does come out with another Camaro in the same spirit as the F-Body, I will be their customer. I look forward to seeing what they have in development. I really hope you guys can pull it off again.

 

OMG he said there's gonna be a new FIRE CHICKEN!!!!! YAAY!!!!!!! You got pics man? Specs??? Whens the realease date????


I had to do it!!!

 

F***ing Detroit. How is it that that one city has everything I'm interested in? While I'm stuck in Philadelphia, almost an opposite of the place.

If they make a new Camaro, they need to bring back the Firebird as well.
I'm nowhere close to a fan of the "fire chicken" >.>, but I am a Camaro supporter, and I know it can't go against the imports and the S***tang all on it's own when it's very market is crashing due to people's want for cool rides they can do what they want to (tuners and ricers) and gas prices. They need to release it and it's garagemate (heheh) in a controleed race. Kind of like how I first saw the two when I learned that they both ran on the F-Body.
Here it is,

GM decides to bring in a new car, and has the bright idea of making two of it's company's have a competition with it.

Each company uses the same chassis and the same basic outline and must change the style when the head honchos say. They both also have a maximum amount of power that they can have.

It creates a rivalry which spurs growth of sales for thw two company's, thereby saving their butts untlt hey can get back on their own.

Funny, isn't it?

If I could meet up with somebody who could draw cars pretty well, we'd make concepts for both of the cars.

 

I'm gonna have to eat my own words, look here

EDIT: Link removed by Admin at the request of GM

 

Huh, that must've been it....

 

yea same thing happened over at carolinarides.com

personally i only have one question to go along with the reentry of the new camaro:

Is it's scheduled release date any where close to the release date of the B3 Bomber?

 

I don't see the point of the Firebird (in a corporate sense as Scott is mentioning)...

Camaro (pony/compact car)
GTO (muscle/midsize car)
Corvette (sports car)
Solstice (I have a vagina) ok, maybe I was just joking about that one

There you go, that's all you need. That covers anything anyone would want or need. Period.

But isn't one of GM's problems the inside competition? We have a Chevy a GMC and Isuzu midsize pickup and suv. Do we need that many from 1 company? No. Don't forget Buick also has the midsize SUV too... What about ALL of the sedans? Absolutely not. How about all the freakin' minivans! Uplander, SV6, Terraza, Relay... Buick doesn't need a van and neither does Pontiac.

As far as Saturn and the Sky vs Solstice, Saturn is just different. Working for Saturn, I understand the Saturn philosophy a bit more than someone looking in does, and I can also see where GM feels about Saturn (to a point).

 

Tip to GM to help increase new car sales: advertise the cars you have for sale(not just the trucks, eh?).

 

There is to be a Camaro prototype in the Detroit auto show in January. Keep an eye open for it. If the car is accepted well, and I think that it will, the Camaro will probably be back in the year of 2007,2008 or 2009. (However, at the Detroit show, the coupe may or may not be called a Camaro.)

 

found a pic on camaroZ28.com on 5th generation forum its pretty sweet. I don't know how to to link or paste the picture else i would.

 

Check the new/press release forum of this website...lots of stink over the leaking of those photos the last few days, GM finally sucked it up and realized you can't stop the internet, lol. Can now view them here after all the whining.

Car looks good, I'm sure the tacky exhaust tips, ugly tailights, and out of place side mirrors have been cleaned up alot. From what you can see in the pics it is obvious GM was on the right track and having months and months I would guess since these pics were taken they have more than gotten it right....it's not like they didn't show this to many many many enthusiasts and focus groups. That's how corporations do things...fortunately there are several enthusiasts running this show including the gentleman above, Bob Lutz, and the nameless/faceless folks who don't look at debit/credit columns to design and build cars.

Bottoms up!

 

sounds like a great plan, no?

OK...so then I think you should buy a new GM car every year!

now.....I know that sounded sarcastic, right? I said that to prove a point.

I don't know you (at least I don't think I do....) but I assume that you go to work every day and make money doing so. At the end of the month...you have collected one or more paychecks. So........you sit down to pay bills.

OK........now.....you can pay bills.....or, perhaps you could take a large portion of your paycheck......go to Las Vegas...and gamble...hoping that you MAY get a return on the money you are gambling with. I suspect if you are like most Americans, you will pay the bills.....and not gamble.

Well......it's the same with GM. We do not have a bottomless pit of money. There is only so much money available for product development....for advertising...for payroll.....for new plants and equipment. (and...as you can see by reading any newspaper, we're losing money!) So......you allocate your ad dollars to the vehicles that will get you the best return on that investment. Knowing that the decision to end 4th gen production was made in the mid-nineties......it would not have made a lot of sense to spend a hundred million dollars on advertising.

Now.....it's a little more complicated than that...but rest assured.....advertising was the least of the problem with the 4th gen. I can't go into details right now......but read my book in 20 years and perhaps you'll understand!!!!

 

What the man is saying here is a very good point . A company cannot survive if they don't make money.Pretty much a no-brainer , right? At the same time , you have to stay ahead of the game , too. The big three found out the hard way that you can't sit back , rest on your rep and stay on top. The 1960s , Japanese products were laughable , American made meant the best you could buy. The late 1970s and 1980s was the time to pay the piper for not forward thinking. AMC went belly up , Chrysler almost did and the Japanese gained a solid footing in the US market . The big three have never quite recovered from this. Right now , as we speak , domestic manufacturers are second only to Japanese manufacturers. They're beating the long revered German automakers in quality and value. Heck DCX is now aligned with German manufacturers and still building a better car! So what can the domestic guys do to gain the world class rep back? Step out on the ledge and swan dive into the Great Unknown. Sure , they have to a point , but sticking your toe in the water ain't gonna cut it , you have to swan dive.
At the same time , all manufacturers must look at the long term ,not just the short term. I think one of the largest errors on GM's part was to offer huge incentives to buy today. Great for right now , but not so good for the long run . Buyers now expect a deal on a new car and wait until that comes around .Look at Japanese cars , no incentives yet a consistent profit. Why? Because they have spent years carefully crafting a rep for building a dependable car. The US cars are pretty much just as good IMO but the rep isn't there. The Cobalt is vastly better than the Cavalier but it will take time to catch on. At least GM has seen that market and is getting their feet wet.Now get the Camaro out there , build it! You know you have loyal buyers , throw them a bone.
There were more circumstances than sales that killed the F-body but a lot of it was poor thinking on GM's exec's part. Short term thinking once again.Remember when they changed the Impala SS from a RWD V8 car to a FWD V6 ? A lot of your buyers were angry but their pleas fell on deaf ears. Now , the Impy has a V8 but remains a FWD . The last step of RWD might be just the turning factor GM needs. What I'm getting at here is there is a market for the Camaro , it will sell ! GM has a chance to tap the vast market. Coupes aren't selling? Explain the Mustang craze then. I guess we just need to slap the GM brass with 100.00 dollar bills then they will listen. DOH!

 

Pontiac has more than 15,000 orders for the new Solstice.

check my post in this thread

GM revises rwd plans

 

The Solstice is really smart thinking on GM's part. It's unique , stylish , and very affordable. This is going to be a good seller , I think and it proves GM has it in 'em to beat the other guys. I realize Scott can't tell us anything but I've heard the Solstice will be getting a V8 in the near future. That would really be quite the beast!. I also really like the Saturn Sky , hopefully , it will be offered to the public.If they can keeping coming up with products like this in different auto lines, GM will be just fine.