JS

iTrader: (4)

Late 69 Baldwin Motion COULD add the 454 to a 69 camaro but u cant really call it factory.....I believe less than 3 car got one....

Z-Convert

FYI: Other than cars such as Baldwin-Motion (and a few other builders - I believe Nickey and Dana) and then only starting with 2nd gens did a 454 appear in any Camaro. The 454 (at any hp level) was never an option for the Camaro from the factory. Only in 1969 did the 427/425 come as an option as a COPO car. Prior to that, cars were ordered as 396/375 and 427/425 engines were put in place by the dealer (with the 396 being returned by the dealer for a "credit"). One of the guys above stated it correctly: Except for full size sedans and Corvette's, displacement was limited to a maximum of 400 cid for ALL GM cars. That's not to say you couldn't DIY with an OTC LS-6 or LS-7, it just wasn't a "factory" car

JS

iTrader: (4)

Z-convert I hate to be the bearer of bad news but u are wrong...
Baldwin Motion built 2 LS7 454 69 Camaros...

I always thought there was 3 but I was incorrect,only 2 ever built.....
Lengendary motor cars restored one,but I dont know ab out the other one,It might be the Green RS/SS w/all the options that got the other LS7 but I'm not sure...

Never talk muscle car with JS,you'll lose everytime

Villain281H

iTrader: (5)

In all my research I've done at work, there wasn't a 454 FACTORY INSTALLED in a 67-69 Camaro. '67-68 Nickeys, Baldwin Motions, Danas and Yenkos were done with crate motors (usually L88s or something similar). The COPO options 9560 and 9561 were what you had to check off on an order sheet for a '69 model year to get the 427 iron block and heads (Yenko ordered at least 201 of them, but that # has many arguments for more, plus there were others as well), or the ultra-rare ZL-1 427 aluminum block and heads of which 69 were made in Camaros only (you could also get the 427 iron block/heads combo 427 in a Chevelle or Nova in '69).

Some books list the 454 LS6 engine as an option for the '70 Camaro but no records exist of a car leaving the factory with one between the framerails. As mentioned there were 454 Motion cars, and statistical "one-offs" could have also happened, but not likely.

Derek

whytryz28

iTrader: (28)

These Balwdin motion cars, are you referring to the original 1969 production date or the "Super car" from last year? Cause i never heard of an early model LS engine other then the LS6 454.

Besides the only engine that deserves talk about is the DZ 302 with the offenhauser cross-ram manifold that thing is a beast the cam in that thing is huge 3300-7000 rpm range if i remember correctly, that and the 462 camel hump heads manke for an aswome little motor haha

JS

iTrader: (4)

No I'm not talking about the new BM cars.

These 2 were built,just check it out on Yenko.net
I KNOW what I'm talking about guys,Villian the cars exsist....

Z-Convert

Taken from the Baldwin-Motion website:

Baldwin-Motion big-block Camaros set the standard for street performance and left their marks in the NHRA and AHRA drag racing record books during the peak of Detroit's Ponycar/Supercar era. Today, legitimate examples are mega-valued and highly coveted by top Musclecar collectors. A restored and fully documented (late-production) 1969 Phase III 454 Camaro recently changed hands for $400,000. The Motion King Cobra race car, built by Joel Rosen, brought $525,000 at the Russo & Steele auction in Scottsdale, AZ in January 2005!

I stand corrected. Thanx!

Although I still don't think you can call it a "factory" car it IS a dealership car.

JS

iTrader: (4)

I agree too....
Factory is GM.........

CougarL92

iTrader: (6)

Im pretty sure 454's were avalible in 69 camaros

onephatZ28

iTrader: (8)

mrdragster1970

We can argue about the 427" being a option, a special order or a big shots perk, but there was never a 454" option of any kind.

.

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

I might be the biggest BM fan out there.

My modern Motion.
I have the fly eye air cleaner on it know.
Also have the 3 motion body plates but have not put the on yet.
I was thinking about puting the motion stripes but I like the clean look.
I love the main design of them but I dont like the side starsky and hutch side stripes.
Has a 70 427, the only year 427 that could also fit a 454 crank.
Also have L-88 / ZL-1 heads to put on it. I wish I could afford a real zl1 or yenko aluminum block, I've seen a few on ebay. That would be the move.

Z-Convert

Looks impressive. That thing has some really wide tires on it. I'm a big fan of rat motored Camaros (having a 67 RS/SS myself with a 454/TH400/4.10 12 bolt). I always liked the RS option (bumperettes, round parking lights and endura grille surround) over the standard front end on the 70-73 cars. IIRC, the 427 was an over the counter option but was not available as an option in a car. In 1970, the 454 used esentially the same block casting but with notches cast into the bottom of the cylinder bores to clear the rod bolts. What would be a real find is a 69 casting 427 block with the notches cast into them similar to a 454 casting. I only know of this because a friend has 1 of them (it's a Corvette only casting number). He calls it one of his "retirement" blocks

BTW: Since the 69 model year carried way over into the 70 model year, your block just might be a 69 Vette block.

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

Yep, my baby. I've been a camaro fan since I got my first.
I was 3. It was #3 afx white w/ blue stripe 70 camaro.
I still have it, 36 years later. Got my first split bumper camaro at 17. blew
it up before I was 18.

The block is a early 70 427.
The only 427 that uses the same casting as early 454's so there's no clearance problem if you want to put a 454 crank/flywheel/balencer.
#3963512 or affectionately known as the '512' block
The heads are #3964291 - 6-67 hi-perf.
I also have a set of #3946074 alum heads I want to swap, but I think I have to do the pistons too. Both are open chamber but the 291's are 106.9cc and the 074's are 114.8cc and need domed pistons to keep the compression up.

skatinjay27

guess what year mine is

Nate81Camaro

Damn, you guys are a bunch of post wh0r3s!!!! (Since his original question was answered in post #7 and you guys kept on postin )
Since I'm post wh0ring also , I may as well add my 2 cents in :

FACTORY - never came w/ more than a 396 (could get a 427 COPO), and you guys are right in saying no stock production camaro has ever come with a 454 in it.

Nate81Camaro

Sorry for the double post, but I'd like to hear some insight from the "experts" on this.

Z-Convert

All of these (396/402/427/454) are Mark IV engines which distinguishes them from earlier 348/409 (Mark I) and 427 "Mystery" (Mark II) engines. 396 and 427 had the same stroke (3.75") with different bore size (396 = 4.094, 427 = 4.250). The 402 was called a 396 as Chevy had all that advertisement into its "396" V8. It was a 396 bore cut .031 over (4.094 + .031 = 4.125) to pass emmisions for 1970. All 3 were internally balanced. The 1st year 396, which debuted in Jan 1965 (65 Impala being the only car to carry both the 409 and the 396 in the same model year) is the only 396 that could be safely bored out to 4.250 without sonic checking the block. It was essentially a small bore 427 due to GM's edict of "No engines over 400 cid except in full sized sedans". The Corvette as well as a late production run of Chevelle's carried this engine. It was rated at 425hp. The 427 was made available in the 1967 model year in various hp ratings as no solid lifter engine (the L72 or 425hp version) was allowed the use of an AC unit (hence the 427/390 in the Vette and Impala - gotta have those creature comforts).

The 454 was a different animal altogether. It debuted for the 1970 model year. Sharing the bore size of the 427 (4.250) it used a longer stroke crank (4.000) and was externally balanced. The 396 (402 really) continued to be used but 1970 was the hp peak; it was down hill from there although the 396 lasted till the 72 model year and the 454 lasted till 1974 in the Vette's and I believe 75 or 76 in the Laguna (which was the reskinned for 73 Chevelle).

Enough stuff? All you others feel free to add, subtract or correct what I believe is correct.

ur jlus

iTrader: (3)

x2.

Jeremiah

iTrader: (5)

Having owned two 69 Z/28s, one original 34,000 mile unrestored I can honestly say they were turds compared to the LS6 454, 375 HP 396 or other comparable high performance big blocks of the day. One of them had the offroad cam and ultra rare headers that were offered over the counter from the parts dept.

Yes, there were a couple of LS6 454 motors installed into some late production 69 Camaros by aftermarket sources like Motion Performance.
There was also an LS6 454 70 Camaro built by GM serial number 000001, to my knlowledge this is the only GM built 454 equiped Camaro.