FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

And it has been established on other boards that Hemi was nowhere NEAR stock.


If that is the case a stock showroom Hemi can run in the 10's with ease. Why are they stuck in the 13's?


Amazing


David

ss dave

I saw and recorded the program where that they fly dynoed I believe five musclecar engines, the hemi, 427 chevy, 427 ford, and a couple of others. Unbelievably the hemi made over 800 hp. If you watch the program carefully the ford and the hemi were dynoed on a different machine than the others. Both those powerplants had very high hp results, hmmmmm. It made for good tv, but was probably not real factual. Regardless the "factory" ZL-1 was the quickest from the factory. The Motion cars were probably slightly quicker due to their suspension set-up, rubber and an assortment of other go-fast engine stuff. Yenkos, Nickeys and others had special powerplants and a few goodies, but not like Motion who guarrenteed low 11's or money back. None were returned. The ZL-1 was the "baddest" factory engine but with factory rubber it made for great burnouts, but as they say, spinnin ain't winnin.

phoenix67

I read somewhere that they only made two ZL1 vettes

FMFZAC

That show was such Bullshit. That hemi probably had Indy heads painted so you would think they were iron. I was pissed after I saw that show because they didn't use a ZL-1. Mopar sucks period. The only reason the hemi is worth a **** is because of Top Fuel drag racing. Whose takin' names in prostock, BBC that's who.

BIG RED BIG RED BIG RED

Z ROADSTER

We just report the facts as they were given . COPO Camaros were few & far between. The engines were reportedly just as they came from the factory except for dyno headers.Don't shoot the messenger just cause you don't agree with the message.Sorry if it stepped on some toes but thems the facts.The 427 ford shot down the mighty big block. Oh woe is me !

Wolfgang427

iTrader: (48)

Correct. Only 2-made and both accounted for. But, many ZL-1's an L-88's and other 427's were sold over the counter also and ended up in many different model cars.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Just because it was on television and "claimed" to be facts doesn't mean it is true...on ANY of those engines.

Amazes me how most people idolize the "musclecar" era. Back in the mid 90's NMCA(National Musclecar Association) had a Pure Stock class. The rules were pretty simple, cars had to be SHOWROOM stock. The only addition was you could have new style rubber, keep in mind drag radials were not on the planet yet.

The majority of the cars ran in the 14 second range, some in the 13's and VERY few in the low 13's. Never saw a trap speed higher than 109 mph, even out of a 4 speed Hemi car. That tells me that even the fastest cars(Hemi 4 speeds, LS6 4 speeds and Boss 4 speeds) were not making over 350RWHP.

A show on SPEED did a big block showroom stock drag test. Highest mph I think was 105 from a Boss 429 Mustang. Peter Klute can DRIVE! He is no punk behind the wheel. He knows how to roll a car out and he powershifted all the 4 speed cars.

SO wheres the beef? A well driven STOCK LS1 six speed car will trap 109 MPH and run 12.90s in SHOWROOM TRIM. They make about 300 rwhp in showroom trim and weigh comparible to a late 60's "Musclecar".

I got news for ya, the Musclecar era is NOW!

David

ss dave

I have to agree. I remember some of those mucslecars. My bro had a 69 Z/28 and raced a 454 El Camino, my buddy had a 428 SCJ Mach 1 (still does). I remember 390 Mustangs, BB GTO's, Nova's and a gold 427 Vette. All seemed very fast at the time. Maybe it was because of the rubber, or maybe the suspension but they FELT fast. Compared to what is out there today, not even close. That's why I dumped my carbed 383 in my 69 for an all aluminum, fuel injected, computer controlled modified LS7. The HP that you can make with modern SB rivals and surpasses old iron BB's. Not to mention bolt on bottles and blowers. Unbelievable!
Musclecars didn't die they were transformed.

Jeremiah

iTrader: (5)

Stock Vs. Stock the ZL1 had a good edge on the Hemi. You just hear about the Hemi so much because there were so many of them. Mopar would put huge motors in anything where GM had a ban on anything larger than 400 CI in a passenger car. No production Hemi put out anywhere near that kind of power. in the pure stock drags the ZL1 powered 69 Camaro is killing the Hemi powered cars.

The #23 69 ZL1 Camaro engine made a max of 565 Hp on an engine dyno all stock and original specs including the factory exhaust manifolds. I have owned two 69 Z/28's, one tuxedo black 34,000 original mile X77 car and a cortez silver RS/Z28. I think the factory 290 Hp rating was acurate, There gutless turds compared to the big blocks of the day.

I would agree though that the Baldwin Motion cars were the most radical of all the aftermarket muscle cars. For production cars the ZL1 would have my vote.

whytryz28

iTrader: (28)

+1 Cant beat the 69' ZL-1 Camaro.

whytryz28

iTrader: (28)

Where are these car dealerships now? Man what i would give to live in the muscle car era for a week.

Sharpe

iTrader: (7)

This guy watched one TV show and now he's an expert. We all know if it's on TV, it true.

What a loser.

Daytona Yellow 69 Z/

SO wheres the beef? A well driven STOCK LS1 six speed car will trap 109 MPH and run 12.90s in SHOWROOM TRIM. They make about 300 rwhp in showroom trim and weigh comparible to a late 60's "Musclecar".

I got news for ya, the Musclecar era is NOW!

David[/QUOTE]


I respectfully disagree. I not sure where you are getting those times from as no stock LS1 car will run close to that around here. Just an example,my stock 2000 SS ran a best of 14.60 at 5500' while my stock except for headers 68 SS/RS 396 Camaro ran a best of 12.81 thru the mufflers at the same 5500' track. There are several LS1 cars that go to our track and most all are with in a tenth or so with mine. Now these are stock cars that we are talking about with no power adders.

There is no argument that todays cars arn't amazing but IMHO the Muscle car era started to dye by 1971 with the lower compression engines & was completly dead by 1974 with the last of the Super Duty Pontiacs.

again, JMHO
Nick

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

I respectfully disagree. I not sure where you are getting those times from as no stock LS1 car will run close to that around here. Just an example,my stock 2000 SS ran a best of 14.60 at 5500' while my stock except for headers 68 SS/RS 396 Camaro ran a best of 12.81 thru the mufflers at the same 5500' track. There are several LS1 cars that go to our track and most all are with in a tenth or so with mine. Now these are stock cars that we are talking about with no power adders.

There is no argument that todays cars arn't amazing but IMHO the Muscle car era started to dye by 1971 with the lower compression engines & was completly dead by 1974 with the last of the Super Duty Pontiacs.

again, JMHO
Nick[/QUOTE]

WELL DUHHHHHHHHH, you are at 5500 feet and you cant drive, obviously.

A buddy had a STOCK 2001 SS six speed, on STOCK tires that ran 12.95, with a whisper lid as the ONLY mod it went 12.80@110 MPH at sea level.And yes he can drive. It totally stock trim it made 308RWHP.

Another buddy had a 2002 Ram Air 6 speed Trans AM all stock, same day 13.00@109.

Runs were made at Hub City Dragway, Hattiesburg Miss. temp was 50*.

Man I had a 200,000 mile 5.0 Mustang with pullies and a short belt on PLAIN radials that ran 13.70's.....


David

Daytona Yellow 69 Z/

WELL DUHHHHHHHHH, you are at 5500 feet and you cant drive, obviously.

A buddy had a STOCK 2001 SS six speed, on STOCK tires that ran 12.95, with a whisper lid as the ONLY mod it went 12.80@110 MPH at sea level.And yes he can drive. It totally stock trim it made 308RWHP.

Another buddy had a 2002 Ram Air 6 speed Trans AM all stock, same day 13.00@109.

Runs were made at Hub City Dragway, Hattiesburg Miss. temp was 50*.

Man I had a 200,000 mile 5.0 Mustang with pullies and a short belt on PLAIN radials that ran 13.70's.....


David[/QUOTE]


Funny since I cant drive, how was I able to run a 12.81 out of my 68 with a 4 speed @ 5500'? I figured you were talking about sea level with those times, but at the same time if I were running the 68 at sea level it might with traction run a 12.0.


Point is I am not disputing the new cars are amazing but I still feel the Muscle car truely died in 1974.

as always JMHO,

Nick

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Funny since I cant drive, how was I able to run a 12.81 out of my 68 with a 4 speed @ 5500'? I figured you were talking about sea level with those times, but at the same time if I were running the 68 at sea level it might with traction run a 12.0.


Point is I am not disputing the new cars are amazing but I still feel the Muscle car truely died in 1974.

as always JMHO,

Nick[/QUOTE]

I disagree, there are more cars today that are capable of 12 and 13 second timeslips in showroom stock trim than ever before, and most are doing it with MUCH smaller engines than the "musclecar" era. And get DOUBLE the gas mileage.

A STOCK C6 Z06 with drag radials as the only mod went 10.90's, it is verified on THIS message board.....to my knowledge there has NEVER been ANY production car EVER with a tire swap that ran in the 10's.

The musclecar era is now, I rest my case.


David

dailydriver

Actually, it was a 10.85!! By Ranger, and YES he IS on this board.

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

Old muscle cars are cool but these guys are right... the muscle car era is now. My 11:1 comp 427 does 360 at the wheels with headers and flowmasters. My 02 ss did 327rwhp stock with a K&N filter and did 13.0 on stock tires.
Another day at the track I think I could have hit 12.9.
Thats at 28mpg hw. boy how we all take aluminum motors and heads for granted now. How can you say this is not the real muscle car era when every car has aluminum heads and motor. Thats like EverY 69 camaro, firebird and vette coming with a z-l1.
.

91LS1T56

ive read of a ZL1 vette geting into the 10.s with slicks earlier on this thread and another publiction(american muscle muscle cars from the otis chandler collection) cool book. it has a green and white 69 baldwin motion camaro on the cover the only one with a wing,i think one of the best looking 69s ive seen a close second is the loaded blue with white vinyl top RS ZL1 not in the book. i believe yenkos,motions,nickeys are considerd dealer stock because they were sold brand new with warranty and GMAC financing if needed,kind of like the SLP prepped WS6s & SSs. the ZL1 was a L88 with an aluminum block maybe a slightly different cam.i would have to say ZL1 for factory stock and baldwin motion for the dealer prepped cars as far as the fastest first gens.the ZL1 vettes ive seen three, a white with black motion style stripe in the above mentioned book,a yellow with black stripe in a few other books and a red roadster on a corvette video. this roadster was interesting because it had a replica or replacement engine and the owner claimed he had the original engine stored in his garage because of how rare it is.now its stated in that american muscle book that one of the first things the origanal buyer of the white ZL1 did was pop the hood and scrape some paint off of the block to see if it was indeed aluminum.dont give me any **** over this next statment . in a discusion with my uncle he claimed there were more than 2 or 3 sold to the public and there was one not far from his house. i did not go and investigate but his reasoning was they painted the blocks and were mistaken for L88s.how you mistake a $4,000 option is beyond me.as for the two known to exist,it was 2 sold to the public im sure they built plenty of R&D cars in fact i saw a picture of zora testing one and it was a roadster to boot. 800hp hemi,yeah i have a pig with wings in a pen out back.

91LS1T56

oh yeah,i ran a best of 13.607 in my 2000 6speed TA with 75,000 miles on it . bone stock,well a K&N air filter,new street tires no WS6 no ram air no air lid just the filter at greatlakes dragway i dont know the elevation. it was about a 60 temp.