5.3L in a 1941 Art Deco GMC Truck
08-20-2010, 12:03 PM
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5.3L in a 1941 Art Deco GMC Truck Now that we have reached the point of figuring out how we're going to mount the LSx into my truck, I figured I'd start a build thread.
My father purchased this truck several years ago, and the body panels had been sitting in the corner of his shop that entire time. It was bought from a local farm, and the body overall is in terrific condition considering it's age. There needs to be some slight patching in the front corners of the cab, but other than that the rest of the cab is in excellent shape. The bed is in pretty good shape, I've purchased a new tailgate and a front panel, but the original bed sides and even the original steel bed floor (GMC's didn't have wood floors) is in good enough condition to be restored without too much work. The biggest issues with the body are going to be the fenders, because there is a lot of bondo on the passenger fender, and while I haven't looked at the rear fenders much yet, I think there's going to be a lot of work put into them.
The original chassis for the truck was non-existent, and so we planned on mounting the body on a 80's s-10 frame. A few years ago, a frame was purchased, disassembled, and sandblasted. When I purchased the truck from my father, I happened across a 2003 S-10 chassis that only had 40k miles on it, so I purchased it for $250 and am going to use it instead, because I don't have to disassemble it, and replace all of the components. I figured I'd save myself some time and lots of money by doing this.
We have averaged 3 weekends a month, beginning in April working on the truck. All of these weekends so far have been devoted to getting the cab and the front sheet metal mounted to the frame, while keeping the body panel alignment as close as possible. This is a lot easier said then done, because unlike the AD trucks (47+), the front end on my truck has what seems like 15 separate pieces of sheet metal.
Here we are in the early stages of figuring out how we're going to mount this to the frame:
Thank god for the car lift in my dad's shop. We just put the arms through the windows, and move around the frame underneath to get everything centered. Tons of time was spent ensuring that we could mount the cab and the front end as low as possible on the frame.
Fenders attached to the cab, and the fronts of them held up with bungee cords. During this time, we didn't even know how the truck assembled together, so lots of time was put into this.
Finally, the front end is put together, and everything is held up with bungee cords. Nothing aligns very well either.
One of my biggest concerns is making sure the wheels are positioned properly within the wheel well. I'm still nervous about it, but having looked at hundreds of photos, I think we've got it right. Plus, the fender is sort of misshaped, and the front will be pulled in slightly.
I had decided at one point to use a standard SBC, with a 700R4 transmission, so we fabricated mounts, and a new transmission cross member. But, I figured since we were using a modern chassis, why not use a modern fuel injected engine? So that was a wasted weekend.
Here you can see how tight the clearance is between the frame rails and the very back of the fenders. We might end up having to very slightly modify the backs of the fenders, but that'll be easier than modifying the frame rails.
We got really tired of taking the front end apart over and over again, so we came up with a solution to simplify things!
My father purchased this truck several years ago, and the body panels had been sitting in the corner of his shop that entire time. It was bought from a local farm, and the body overall is in terrific condition considering it's age. There needs to be some slight patching in the front corners of the cab, but other than that the rest of the cab is in excellent shape. The bed is in pretty good shape, I've purchased a new tailgate and a front panel, but the original bed sides and even the original steel bed floor (GMC's didn't have wood floors) is in good enough condition to be restored without too much work. The biggest issues with the body are going to be the fenders, because there is a lot of bondo on the passenger fender, and while I haven't looked at the rear fenders much yet, I think there's going to be a lot of work put into them.
The original chassis for the truck was non-existent, and so we planned on mounting the body on a 80's s-10 frame. A few years ago, a frame was purchased, disassembled, and sandblasted. When I purchased the truck from my father, I happened across a 2003 S-10 chassis that only had 40k miles on it, so I purchased it for $250 and am going to use it instead, because I don't have to disassemble it, and replace all of the components. I figured I'd save myself some time and lots of money by doing this.
We have averaged 3 weekends a month, beginning in April working on the truck. All of these weekends so far have been devoted to getting the cab and the front sheet metal mounted to the frame, while keeping the body panel alignment as close as possible. This is a lot easier said then done, because unlike the AD trucks (47+), the front end on my truck has what seems like 15 separate pieces of sheet metal.
Here we are in the early stages of figuring out how we're going to mount this to the frame:
Thank god for the car lift in my dad's shop. We just put the arms through the windows, and move around the frame underneath to get everything centered. Tons of time was spent ensuring that we could mount the cab and the front end as low as possible on the frame.
Fenders attached to the cab, and the fronts of them held up with bungee cords. During this time, we didn't even know how the truck assembled together, so lots of time was put into this.
Finally, the front end is put together, and everything is held up with bungee cords. Nothing aligns very well either.
One of my biggest concerns is making sure the wheels are positioned properly within the wheel well. I'm still nervous about it, but having looked at hundreds of photos, I think we've got it right. Plus, the fender is sort of misshaped, and the front will be pulled in slightly.
I had decided at one point to use a standard SBC, with a 700R4 transmission, so we fabricated mounts, and a new transmission cross member. But, I figured since we were using a modern chassis, why not use a modern fuel injected engine? So that was a wasted weekend.
Here you can see how tight the clearance is between the frame rails and the very back of the fenders. We might end up having to very slightly modify the backs of the fenders, but that'll be easier than modifying the frame rails.
We got really tired of taking the front end apart over and over again, so we came up with a solution to simplify things!
08-20-2010, 12:46 PM
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Here's the radiator we used. I don't remember the exact measurements, but I want to say 19"x21"? Or 19" x 22".
Major modifications had to be made to the core support. The core support happens to mount RIGHT on top of the power steering box. We had to make our own fittings to that they would fit underneath, and will be making our own lines when the time comes. You can see the tight clearance here (again, it's so tight because we are trying to keep everything as low as possible).
And here's how it mounts to the frame (final welding has not been done yet)
We extremely modified the core support as well so that we could mount the radiator, and be able to get to the cap and so that the radiator would actually fit. We had to weld studs to the sides, because a bolt head will not longer fit inside because of clearance issues. Overall, I think it turned out great.
Just starting:
And finished:
Now that we have the front end mounted, and all of the panels lined up, it was time to finally mount the cab (which was suspended in air this entire time by the lift.
Before:
Here are the body mounts we created (short ones for the front, tall ones for the rear)
And here is the truck rolling around for the first time in probably decades! (this was an exciting moment, even though we still need to mount the running boards and the bed)
My 5 month pregnant wife (our first child) approves!
Here's me pretending to drive it
First time I've actually opened the door on this thing. It didn't open well with the cab sitting on the floor of the barn for all these years, and we couldn't open it with it hanging on the lift
From a distance it looks better
Now it's time to tear it apart again, and start mounting the LSx
Major modifications had to be made to the core support. The core support happens to mount RIGHT on top of the power steering box. We had to make our own fittings to that they would fit underneath, and will be making our own lines when the time comes. You can see the tight clearance here (again, it's so tight because we are trying to keep everything as low as possible).
And here's how it mounts to the frame (final welding has not been done yet)
We extremely modified the core support as well so that we could mount the radiator, and be able to get to the cap and so that the radiator would actually fit. We had to weld studs to the sides, because a bolt head will not longer fit inside because of clearance issues. Overall, I think it turned out great.
Just starting:
And finished:
Now that we have the front end mounted, and all of the panels lined up, it was time to finally mount the cab (which was suspended in air this entire time by the lift.
Before:
Here are the body mounts we created (short ones for the front, tall ones for the rear)
And here is the truck rolling around for the first time in probably decades! (this was an exciting moment, even though we still need to mount the running boards and the bed)
My 5 month pregnant wife (our first child) approves!
Here's me pretending to drive it
First time I've actually opened the door on this thing. It didn't open well with the cab sitting on the floor of the barn for all these years, and we couldn't open it with it hanging on the lift
From a distance it looks better
Now it's time to tear it apart again, and start mounting the LSx
Last edited by 5.3l1941GMC; 08-20-2010 at 11:21 PM.
08-20-2010, 12:51 PM
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Time to test fit the LSx
Uh oh, truck manifolds aren't going to work. Truck oil pan is waaaay too low. A/C compressor (I don't have one now, but I will eventually) is going to be a major problem.
Not to mention, the way this thing mounts is completely different than the SBC. We knew it would be, but when we put this in between the frame rails, we were really scratching our heads.
We designed a mount for the passenger side that we are having fabricated, and if it works out we'll be using a similar design on the other side.
In the mean time, I am trying to modify my harness myself, which is something I've never done before.
I've been asked before why I don't use S10 V8 swap products, and the reason is because the engine sits further back in my truck than on an S10.
My long term goal for this truck is to have a show quality truck, with all of the modern ammenities. I want to be able to park next to a friend of mines truck at a car show, and not be completely outclassed.
(his is a 53 on an S-10 chassis)
I do plan on going about it a different way though. I want to get my truck running and driveable within the next 6 months, because with my first child on the way I am going to be sidetracked. If I can get in the truck and drive it around when I want to, the urge to give up will be lessened. So phase one of the build consists of getting it mounted, throwing together an interior, doing rough body work and getting it in primer, and start driving it. And then begin upgrading the truck in phases.
I do have 2" beltech lowering springs, 2" beltech drop spindles, 2" de-arched leaf springs, and 2" lowering blocks waiting for installation, so this truck should be sitting pretty low. 20"x12" wheels in the back, and 20" x 8" in the front are what I am planning.
Lots of work to be done though. And school starting again in 2 weeks. And of course, the baby in 4 months. Plus a demanding full time job...
Uh oh, truck manifolds aren't going to work. Truck oil pan is waaaay too low. A/C compressor (I don't have one now, but I will eventually) is going to be a major problem.
Not to mention, the way this thing mounts is completely different than the SBC. We knew it would be, but when we put this in between the frame rails, we were really scratching our heads.
We designed a mount for the passenger side that we are having fabricated, and if it works out we'll be using a similar design on the other side.
In the mean time, I am trying to modify my harness myself, which is something I've never done before.
I've been asked before why I don't use S10 V8 swap products, and the reason is because the engine sits further back in my truck than on an S10.
My long term goal for this truck is to have a show quality truck, with all of the modern ammenities. I want to be able to park next to a friend of mines truck at a car show, and not be completely outclassed.
(his is a 53 on an S-10 chassis)
I do plan on going about it a different way though. I want to get my truck running and driveable within the next 6 months, because with my first child on the way I am going to be sidetracked. If I can get in the truck and drive it around when I want to, the urge to give up will be lessened. So phase one of the build consists of getting it mounted, throwing together an interior, doing rough body work and getting it in primer, and start driving it. And then begin upgrading the truck in phases.
I do have 2" beltech lowering springs, 2" beltech drop spindles, 2" de-arched leaf springs, and 2" lowering blocks waiting for installation, so this truck should be sitting pretty low. 20"x12" wheels in the back, and 20" x 8" in the front are what I am planning.
Lots of work to be done though. And school starting again in 2 weeks. And of course, the baby in 4 months. Plus a demanding full time job...
Last edited by 5.3l1941GMC; 08-20-2010 at 01:11 PM.
08-20-2010, 01:07 PM
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I am thinking a Camaro LS1 oil pan will solve one of my problems.
Plus I need stock LS1 injectors (I bought an LS1 intake and fuel rails, but not the injectors).
Also need a stock 5.3l alternator and starter, that obviously still function properly. (I can't post in parts wanted yet because I don't have 50 posts).
And are there any factory manifolds that are tighter on the block, and exit lower than the truck manifolds? I really don't want to spend the money for custom headers.
If anyone has these available, or any tips on the manifolds, please let me know.
And I'm sure I'll be here asking questions about the wiring. There is so much LSx information out there, it is overwhelming.
Plus I need stock LS1 injectors (I bought an LS1 intake and fuel rails, but not the injectors).
Also need a stock 5.3l alternator and starter, that obviously still function properly. (I can't post in parts wanted yet because I don't have 50 posts).
And are there any factory manifolds that are tighter on the block, and exit lower than the truck manifolds? I really don't want to spend the money for custom headers.
If anyone has these available, or any tips on the manifolds, please let me know.
And I'm sure I'll be here asking questions about the wiring. There is so much LSx information out there, it is overwhelming.
08-20-2010, 02:01 PM
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Here is one of my inspirations:
Mine won't be as low, because I'm not going with air ride at this point, and I plan on having a chrome front bumper.
Wife wants me to paint it the same color as the new green camaros:
But we'll see...
Mine won't be as low, because I'm not going with air ride at this point, and I plan on having a chrome front bumper.
Wife wants me to paint it the same color as the new green camaros:
But we'll see...
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08-20-2010, 11:29 PM
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Thanks for the feedback! I was hoping to be a little farther along than we are now. My father and I are doing all the work, and of course the year I have the funds to build a hot rod with his help (he's been a mechanic his whole life), my parents buy a camper and a lot of weekends we can't work on the truck because they're gone. But now that the truck is finally reaching the point of being mounted to the frame, there's more projects I can tackle on my own. I'd love to have everything mounted, and ready for the "rough" interior and wiring by winter, when I hope to haul it to my house and work on it by myself as much as possible.
08-21-2010, 03:32 PM
#11
We are currently doing a swap in a Toyota Supra and have tried several different exhaust manifolds including the truck manifolds and we found that the CTS-V manifolds fit pretty tight to the engine and gave us good clearance as its tight between the rails on our swap also. Keep up the progress, this is one of the builds I want to do next.
08-31-2010, 11:10 AM
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I gave up on modifying the harness myself, and bought a new one along with a 4L60E harness. I also bought an ECM, and will be sending that out soon for programming. I start school again on Thursday, so the weeknights that I wanted to spend working on the harness are going to be nonexistent.
I found some F-body manifolds that are somewhat local, along with an F-body oil pan, pickup tube, and dipstick that I'm going to be picking up tomorrow. I was reading that some S-10 swaps have successfully used modified F-body manifolds, and even though my engine sits a lot further back than it would in an S-10, I'm hoping that there's enough clearance. Also beginning to wonder if we need to raise the motor up more.
I also found a 60/40 bench seat out of an S-10 that I've been looking for for a while, that hopefully I will be picking up soon. Then I just have to hope that it fits (measurements say it's going to be extremely tight, hopefully the doors close and there's enough room for a door panel). I'm hoping to not have to modify the shape of the seat in any way (except for eliminating the headrests), and hoping to order some Katzkin leather for it, along with matching material to cover the interior panels.
Despite the fact that I've spent a bunch of money on the truck in the last week, I don't have any progress pictures.
All I need now are stock LS1 injectors, and some gaskets and I should be good to go engine wise. Oh, and a 4L60E transmission. I've got a lead on one for $50, but it needs work.
Anyone want to sell me some injectors?
I found some F-body manifolds that are somewhat local, along with an F-body oil pan, pickup tube, and dipstick that I'm going to be picking up tomorrow. I was reading that some S-10 swaps have successfully used modified F-body manifolds, and even though my engine sits a lot further back than it would in an S-10, I'm hoping that there's enough clearance. Also beginning to wonder if we need to raise the motor up more.
I also found a 60/40 bench seat out of an S-10 that I've been looking for for a while, that hopefully I will be picking up soon. Then I just have to hope that it fits (measurements say it's going to be extremely tight, hopefully the doors close and there's enough room for a door panel). I'm hoping to not have to modify the shape of the seat in any way (except for eliminating the headrests), and hoping to order some Katzkin leather for it, along with matching material to cover the interior panels.
Despite the fact that I've spent a bunch of money on the truck in the last week, I don't have any progress pictures.
All I need now are stock LS1 injectors, and some gaskets and I should be good to go engine wise. Oh, and a 4L60E transmission. I've got a lead on one for $50, but it needs work.
Anyone want to sell me some injectors?
09-10-2010, 08:30 AM
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I wish I had more options locally for buying my engine. I paid $350 for it, but it didn't come with a starter or alternator.
I also need an LS1 windage tray (F-body).
If anyone has these parts available, please send me a PM. I still can't post in classifieds (post count too low).
I have collected a LS1 intake, fuel rails, injectors (pending), throttle body, the dirty dingo Idler Pulley Relocation Bracket, F-body oil pan, F-body manifolds, F-body dipstick and tube, F-body oil pickup, ECM, and Schwanke engines wiring harness and transmission harness.
What do I do for a power steering pump? I'm using the stock S10 box.
I also need an LS1 windage tray (F-body).
If anyone has these parts available, please send me a PM. I still can't post in classifieds (post count too low).
I have collected a LS1 intake, fuel rails, injectors (pending), throttle body, the dirty dingo Idler Pulley Relocation Bracket, F-body oil pan, F-body manifolds, F-body dipstick and tube, F-body oil pickup, ECM, and Schwanke engines wiring harness and transmission harness.
What do I do for a power steering pump? I'm using the stock S10 box.
09-20-2010, 09:36 AM
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Mounts are done! And yes, they are definitely complicated compared to most motor mounts, but we wanted these to be removable, and because of where the engine was sitting, they needed to be complicated. The actual mount itself is a stock S-10.
Also, I bought a seat that I'm hoping will fit comfortably, a 1996 S10 60/40. I haven't test fitted yet, but soon.
Also, I bought a seat that I'm hoping will fit comfortably, a 1996 S10 60/40. I haven't test fitted yet, but soon.
Last edited by 5.3l1941GMC; 11-19-2010 at 10:29 AM.
09-20-2010, 11:26 AM
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When you finally get around to installing a 6.0L in that thing, let me know, I have a brand new pair of L92 heads and an intake manifold for it.
Nice project.
You will NEVER regret the LS power.
Nice project.
You will NEVER regret the LS power.
09-27-2010, 10:27 AM
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Engine and transmission are now officially mounted. Engine ended up being approximately 8.5" behind a stock S10 engine mounting point. Should definitely help with weight distribution! Unfortunately, being that far back, we're going to have to modify the front of the crossmember for the power steering pump. No big deal though...
Next on the list is getting the steering column mounted. Can anyone tell me what the column tube diameter is of a 1992 S10 steering column? I'm stuck at the office, and need to get a column drop ordered ASAP.
I also still need all of the stock 5.3L accessories and brackets. If anyone has these for sale, please send me a PM.
Thanks for reading.
Next on the list is getting the steering column mounted. Can anyone tell me what the column tube diameter is of a 1992 S10 steering column? I'm stuck at the office, and need to get a column drop ordered ASAP.
I also still need all of the stock 5.3L accessories and brackets. If anyone has these for sale, please send me a PM.
Thanks for reading.
09-28-2010, 01:00 PM
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And I need a F-body LS1 windage tray. Also, I need a starter for the 5.3L.
Until I am able to post in classifieds, I'm going to keep mentioning parts I need in this thread. I understand not allowing someone to post a for sale ad, but it's crazy not allowing someone to post a wanted ad. It'd be pretty hard for someone to rip-off a seller...
Until I am able to post in classifieds, I'm going to keep mentioning parts I need in this thread. I understand not allowing someone to post a for sale ad, but it's crazy not allowing someone to post a wanted ad. It'd be pretty hard for someone to rip-off a seller...