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Loopy, I have been lurking and watching this thread pretty much from the beginning hoping you would come up with a solution for the can bus. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the can system and there is a program that allows you to connect to the bus and program (or reprogram) the value of the signals that it’s looking for as well as turn off/on things like the SMG diagnostics (for cars fitted with a manual trans) and other features that are trim level specific. Granted the person I was reading this from was doing a bmw to bmw swap so I’m not sure how feasible it would be on something like this. But have you looked into this at all?
I am seriously contemplating somthing similar on my E60 M5. I have the tools and skills required to physically do this swap but the deal breaker for me is the stock gauge cluster/information center popping up a bunch of errors. I don’t need all the read outs to work, but my wife (its kind of her car) will freak out on me if I do the swap and the thing lights up like a Christmas tree and bongs non stop every time she turns the car on. Basically so long as the trip odo tach and speedo work and I don’t get any error lights I’m golden.
I did try to ask this question about getting the can to talk to a different engine on the bmw forums. All they do is trash talk even the idea of removing the v10 for an “inferior” motor. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me if I want a super sedan with an LS to just sell it and buy a CTS-V.
This is just extra info about why I would want to do this to an M5 for those that care (since that’s the #1 question I get) and can be skipped over by those who don’t. First and foremost it’s paid for and for the time being I’ve already taken all the deprecation I’m willing to take buying automobiles (which is why I don’t want to go out and buy a cts-v). I’ve found much better things to spend my money on than something that deprecates 80% of its value in 10 years. Second if you don’t count it always being in the shop it’s the best all purpose car I’ve ever owned. Extremely quiet, stable, and comfortable on the hwy (especially at high speeds) Its still fun to toss around if you find yourself in the twisties. It has enough power to surprise unknowing challenger, camaro and mustang owners from a stoplight. Fade free brakes that bring this behemoth down from 155 in no time flat. Plenty of room for the wife, kid and luggage. I seriously love everything about it. I even love the drivetrain... when it works. But it’s got just over 100k right now. Around 30k my first smg pump had to be replaced. 60k the rod bearings went and the motor had to be replaced. At 80k they replaced the transmission and clutch due to some other failure that bmw couldn’t figure out so they just replaced everything. My wife mostly drives this car (she drives like a granny)and I don’t beat this car hardly at all when I do. It’s always been serviced at the dealer as per warranty instructions,(luckily at that point everything had been covered by warranty or extended warranty). When the warranty finally ran out last year I started contemplating some form of drivetrain swap since I never know when the next problem is going to pop up with this thing. Well the next problem popped up. The vanos pump just went out and I’m looking at over 2 grand minimum just to buy the pump. Hopefully it’s just that and it didn’t trash the motor as well since it happened at 1am and I told the wife to just drive it home(she works night shift at the hospital). I’m so tired of the mechanical issues with this car but I absolutely love everything else about it. I just want to be able to jump in it any time and enjoy it without worrying what the next issue is going to be or where it’s going to leave me (or worse my wife) stranded this time.
Make the leap, dump the dealership, and take control of your car. With everything that people have to spend on expensive repairs due to BMW's inability to create a reliable car, you could pay for a very nice gm drivetrain. I actually left the bmw ALDL connector in place just in case I run across a way to disable the error codes from all of the BMW modules and computers. It sounds like there is a lot that you can do to get those error codes to be quiet. If you end up doing an LS swap YOU GOTTA POST A THREAD. And put a link in my thread so I can go to it whenever I want.
Loopy, I have been lurking and watching this thread pretty much from the beginning hoping you would come up with a solution for the can bus. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on the can system and there is a program that allows you to connect to the bus and program (or reprogram) the value of the signals that it’s looking for as well as turn off/on things like the SMG diagnostics (for cars fitted with a manual trans) and other features that are trim level specific. Granted the person I was reading this from was doing a bmw to bmw swap so I’m not sure how feasible it would be on something like this. But have you looked into this at all?
I am seriously contemplating somthing similar on my E60 M5. I have the tools and skills required to physically do this swap but the deal breaker for me is the stock gauge cluster/information center popping up a bunch of errors. I don’t need all the read outs to work, but my wife (its kind of her car) will freak out on me if I do the swap and the thing lights up like a Christmas tree and bongs non stop every time she turns the car on. Basically so long as the trip odo tach and speedo work and I don’t get any error lights I’m golden.
I did try to ask this question about getting the can to talk to a different engine on the bmw forums. All they do is trash talk even the idea of removing the v10 for an “inferior” motor. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me if I want a super sedan with an LS to just sell it and buy a CTS-V.
This is just extra info about why I would want to do this to an M5 for those that care (since that’s the #1 question I get) and can be skipped over by those who don’t. First and foremost it’s paid for and for the time being I’ve already taken all the deprecation I’m willing to take buying automobiles (which is why I don’t want to go out and buy a cts-v). I’ve found much better things to spend my money on than something that deprecates 80% of its value in 10 years. Second if you don’t count it always being in the shop it’s the best all purpose car I’ve ever owned. Extremely quiet, stable, and comfortable on the hwy (especially at high speeds) Its still fun to toss around if you find yourself in the twisties. It has enough power to surprise unknowing challenger, camaro and mustang owners from a stoplight. Fade free brakes that bring this behemoth down from 155 in no time flat. Plenty of room for the wife, kid and luggage. I seriously love everything about it. I even love the drivetrain... when it works. But it’s got just over 100k right now. Around 30k my first smg pump had to be replaced. 60k the rod bearings went and the motor had to be replaced. At 80k they replaced the transmission and clutch due to some other failure that bmw couldn’t figure out so they just replaced everything. My wife mostly drives this car (she drives like a granny)and I don’t beat this car hardly at all when I do. It’s always been serviced at the dealer as per warranty instructions,(luckily at that point everything had been covered by warranty or extended warranty). When the warranty finally ran out last year I started contemplating some form of drivetrain swap since I never know when the next problem is going to pop up with this thing. Well the next problem popped up. The vanos pump just went out and I’m looking at over 2 grand minimum just to buy the pump. Hopefully it’s just that and it didn’t trash the motor as well since it happened at 1am and I told the wife to just drive it home(she works night shift at the hospital). I’m so tired of the mechanical issues with this car but I absolutely love everything else about it. I just want to be able to jump in it any time and enjoy it without worrying what the next issue is going to be or where it’s going to leave me (or worse my wife) stranded this time.
Haha. On the M5board, it's "if you wanted a LS, you should've gotten a CTS-V". On 5series it's, "If you wanted a faster BMW sedan/wagon, you should've gotten the 35." Don't dare bring in the idea of swapping to a cheaper and far more reliable/plentiful engine.
Anywaayyysss, if you haven't already, I suggest picking up a cheap OBDII to USB cable from eBay and a cheap-ish laptop and install INPA to. There are older program options you can use, but they typically only work well in WinXP. I can link you to the cable I bought that connects just fine ($15) along with the MEGA link for the program if you'd like. I've messed with one of the older programs already, but my understanding is that INPA is the much preferred program for our E60s.
My first thought process with this was to "dumb" down as much as I possibly could within my E61 to make things easier down the road once I perform the swap at a much later date. Get rid of iDrive for a tablet, dump the Logic7 for something more "basic", etc etc. I've also been looking in to replacing the dash w/ a tablet or some sort of digital dash if I got tired of the Christmas tree at some point, but that's a last resort kind of deal.
There is a guy named Thaniel (?) on Bimmerforums or one of the others that's getting extremely in-depth w/ the CANBUS from an E90 that will/should transfer over to ours.
I'm also currently looking in to swapping my rotors and calipers to the 4 pot Brembos off a 5th gen SS because ******* lol at the big brake prices BMW vendors want just for a front or rear set (Over $3k...). I looked in to the M5 rotors and calipers, but they wouldn't really provide an improvement for what they'd cost.
Former BMW and Porsche owner here -- left the fold as I felt they have both SO lost their way with the newer (last 10 years) stuff. When I got the LS3 in the 242, it was so much fun to drive that I sold the Cayman S. Go figure. I think from now on, I'll just build my own hot rods.....not anything out there that I want to buy anymore. Which is another way of saying - I'm getting old.
Last edited by Michael Yount; 11-05-2017 at 04:27 PM.
So in my search to maybe get my project underway I found that you can buy a ms3 stand alone and use a screen to display the information available on the ECU. The standalone is 1200 by itself though. Then I found this which is a MUCH cheaper option
I think the idea is fantastic but this guys execution wouldn't work for me. If there were a way to make it boot straight to the gauge screen in much less time (which according to the comments there are ways to do just that) then it might be a viable option. The only other thing is I don't see a fuel gauge or odo with either option so that would have to be figured out.
I also found another video with someone replacing their nav screen with an android based operating system and it still used the e60 rotary dial on the center console. So that would hopefully keep the rest of the errors from popping up there.
For now I went ahead bit the bullet and replaced my VANOS pump this past weekend just to get the car back on the road. I am going to start collecting some of the electronic parts to see how viable the swap is going to be for me but also maybe give you some ideas as well loopy. Anyway hopefully this will buy me some time to see if we can figure this electronic crap out before the next thing breaks on my car. If you have come across anything as well let me know.
Will do. I have some time off coming up over Thanksgiving break to play with the car some more. I am planning on exploring some of the possibilities that I have in mind for getting at least the speedo and tach going.
Will do. I have some time off coming up over Thanksgiving break to play with the car some more. I am planning on exploring some of the possibilities that I have in mind for getting at least the speedo and tach going.
If you just need the speedometer and the tachometer working, what does the vehicle need for a signal to make those work? If it is just a pulse frequency then you can use the Lingenfelter CAN2-002 to analog module to convert the RPM and VSS CAN signals from the GM ECM into frequency or simulated analog outputs to drive the gauges. You can do the same for temperature gauges too.
If I missed a discussion where these gauges run off of the BMW CAN messages then my apologies.
So in my search to maybe get my project underway I found that you can buy a ms3 stand alone and use a screen to display the information available on the ECU. The standalone is 1200 by itself though. Then I found this which is a MUCH cheaper option https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-pOCS-QYg I think the idea is fantastic but this guys execution wouldn't work for me. If there were a way to make it boot straight to the gauge screen in much less time (which according to the comments there are ways to do just that) then it might be a viable option. The only other thing is I don't see a fuel gauge or odo with either option so that would have to be figured out.
I also found another video with someone replacing their nav screen with an android based operating system and it still used the e60 rotary dial on the center console. So that would hopefully keep the rest of the errors from popping up there.
For now I went ahead bit the bullet and replaced my VANOS pump this past weekend just to get the car back on the road. I am going to start collecting some of the electronic parts to see how viable the swap is going to be for me but also maybe give you some ideas as well loopy. Anyway hopefully this will buy me some time to see if we can figure this electronic crap out before the next thing breaks on my car. If you have come across anything as well let me know.
My plan for my S-10 swap project is to use a tablet as my cluster. I'm going to steal the basic aesthetic design from the Benz S550, but use a BT OBD reader, to a tablet. I will most likely use an Android tablet again (maybe even my existing Samsung GalaxyTab Pro 8.4 that I used in my last car) and run Tasker. Tasker allows you to setup if/then types of stuff like "If you see my home network, join it" or "On power loss, go into airplane mode" then you could follow that with "On power up, leave airplane mode and boot Torque Pro" thus booting more quickly, and going (basically) right into the gauge screen. Did something similar in my last car.
Careful on using standard consumer grade Android tablets and similar devices as screens in automotive applications. Works great for show vehicles but for actual use those screens are not rated for the high or low temperatures often found in vehicles. If you do you may want to design it so you can easily remove the screen when you exist the vehicle so you can take it with you.
At low temperatures the screens may not work properly, especially the touch screen portion. At high temperatures the same will happen and at high enough temperatures the screens may fail to work at all (and may suffer permanent damage). Most vehicle interior electrical components are designed for a 85 degree C (185 deg F) operation. Most consumer electronics are not designed for that temperature.
BTW - as a test of how hot it can get in a vehicle (for an unrelated project), I did a quick test on the interior temperature of one of my vehicles. Keep in mind this was done in the Midwest USA in the late summer during not especially hot weather so not worst case for the Midwest let alone the USA (or Earth). At 89 degrees ambient my interior temperature reached 141 degrees F and this was inside an insulated container, not surfaces in direct sunlight view.
So in my search to maybe get my project underway I found that you can buy a ms3 stand alone and use a screen to display the information available on the ECU. The standalone is 1200 by itself though. Then I found this which is a MUCH cheaper option https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-pOCS-QYg I think the idea is fantastic but this guys execution wouldn't work for me. If there were a way to make it boot straight to the gauge screen in much less time (which according to the comments there are ways to do just that) then it might be a viable option. The only other thing is I don't see a fuel gauge or odo with either option so that would have to be figured out.
I also found another video with someone replacing their nav screen with an android based operating system and it still used the e60 rotary dial on the center console. So that would hopefully keep the rest of the errors from popping up there.
For now I went ahead bit the bullet and replaced my VANOS pump this past weekend just to get the car back on the road. I am going to start collecting some of the electronic parts to see how viable the swap is going to be for me but also maybe give you some ideas as well loopy. Anyway hopefully this will buy me some time to see if we can figure this electronic crap out before the next thing breaks on my car. If you have come across anything as well let me know.
There's a guy in the UK who's swapped a 2JZ in to his E60 and he's using a "Link G4+ Storm" ECU with a tablet as his dash. Saw his post on the e60/61 UK FB group and asked him about CANBUS. He also has a short build post on Driftworks currently.
Careful on using standard consumer grade Android tablets and similar devices as screens in automotive applications. Works great for show vehicles but for actual use those screens are not rated for the high or low temperatures often found in vehicles. If you do you may want to design it so you can easily remove the screen when you exist the vehicle so you can take it with you.
Yep. You are correct. I made a side-slider type dash bezel for my Kia. But then I got lazy and just left it in all the time, and sometimes if it was less than like 30 degrees when I got into the car the tablet would tell me the tempature was too low and wouldn't let me do anything until it warmed up some. Luckily, I had a remote start. My S-10 project isn't intended for cold weather use, and plans may change, so we'll see. I also have the 7 guage cluster that came out of my donor 2500HD.
Originally Posted by ProServ
At low temperatures the screens may not work properly, especially the touch screen portion. At high temperatures the same will happen and at high enough temperatures the screens may fail to work at all (and may suffer permanent damage). Most vehicle interior electrical components are designed for a 85 degree C (185 deg F) operation. Most consumer electronics are not designed for that temperature.
BTW - as a test of how hot it can get in a vehicle (for an unrelated project), I did a quick test on the interior temperature of one of my vehicles. Keep in mind this was done in the Midwest USA in the late summer during not especially hot weather so not worst case for the Midwest let alone the USA (or Earth). At 89 degrees ambient my interior temperature reached 141 degrees F and this was inside an insulated container, not surfaces in direct sunlight view. Here is a link to some of that data.
Jason Haines
PSS
In real life, it worked fine. I think ONE time in like 2 years, it gave me an over temp warning, and maybe 10 times a "too cold" warning.
The real problem is that it is no longer supported, so it's only running Android 4.2. It's already rooted, so I could hack it to run 5.0 or better and then run Android Auto in stand alone mode.
It made a good head unit. I may reuse some of the parts I had before.
Has anyone just used aftermarket gauges that are compatible with the LS ecu outputs -- and simply "reworked" the BMW gauge panel?
I was hoping to do that, but I have searched quite extensively and have not yet found gauges that are close to the same size. They're all either too small for my liking or too big to fit in the space I have available.
If you just need the speedometer and the tachometer working, what does the vehicle need for a signal to make those work? If it is just a pulse frequency then you can use the Lingenfelter CAN2-002 to analog module to convert the RPM and VSS CAN signals from the GM ECM into frequency or simulated analog outputs to drive the gauges. You can do the same for temperature gauges too.
If I missed a discussion where these gauges run off of the BMW CAN messages then my apologies.
Jason Haines
PSS
I'm pretty sure that the signals come through the CAN line. It may be possible to break the gauge cluster open and try to wire the speedo and tach directly, but I'm thinking that a GM signal won't be what the BMW gauges are looking for.
I'm pretty sure that the signals come through the CAN line. It may be possible to break the gauge cluster open and try to wire the speedo and tach directly, but I'm thinking that a GM signal won't be what the BMW gauges are looking for.
Yeah, I've read that one quite a few times. Thaniel has done some great things in regards to making ls swapped BMW gauges work. I may end up having to use an arduino and end up writing or finding a simple speedo and tach program to upload to it, but I am currently working on another idea. If it works, I'll post up the outcome.
Dude you are awesome. In college, I drove an rx7 with a 305 . Then I had an 89 e300 that I wanted to do a swap when I got my 04 545i with a manual trans. I ended up giving the Mercedes to one of my friends who wrecked it a week later. I still have all the parts that I bought 6 years ago such as a low profile oil pan. Now the 545i keeps having issues and it’s been irritating and I’m starting to get the feel that I must do the ls swap on the bmw but I would like to keep the six speed . I think my brother said that there is a company that already has made a bell housing that would fit the ls . I think that would be pretty sick . Good job on this project . Hell of a job man
Just saw this thread. My mom previously had a 05 or 06 545i. That SOB was always having electrical issues. She recently decided to check the crash test rating on the back of a semi. Now she has a 435Xi. Good job on the swap man. Brings back nightmares of the old E60.
I've got to swap a metric ton of gaskets on my 545 - N62B44 and I'm considering the LS2/3 swap. I'm using a standard tranny, will have to dig a bit on my end. Thank you for posting all you did. A few people started converting their 545s to LS... this is very nice.
Months and months of hard work - Thanks for everything you've posted so far!
11-02-2017, 04:49 PM
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