DW SD

very cool - thanks for the explanation!

Doug

PeteS160

Once I get it all up and running I'll target specific type's of cars to work out compatibility with since this isn't really universal between different types of vehicles.....and I'm not even gonna try to buy pcm's, bcm's and clusters for every type of car. I've got to draw the line somewhere

PeteS160

It's late, I'm cold and this is no longer a concept, it works.

J1850VPW ( 1996-2006 GM Trucks, 1996 - 2003 Car)

Data stream is being read, temperature values indexed in real time and is then controlling a PWM circuit driving the temperature gauge.

I only have 80 points being mapped out currently, it should be 160 points(1 for each degree the gauge reads) so it has some spots that it gets a little jumpy.


Need to make a couple changes to the code and add some fuses and I'll test this on a CAN system later this week on my wife's car.....just have to do it when she's not paying attention

69 Ghost

Ran across this today. Looks like with a little work this can be made to do a lot of stuff without a lot of effort. http://www.cannylogic.com/c7

PeteS160

It's been a while since I've looked at that, the software looks to have come a long ways. Unfortunately as an end user product it doesn't offer a whole lot of usefulness. The majority of people would have no clue how to write a program for it or even how to analyse the data from it. IMO it's more of a development type of product then an end user product. With that said if shipping was 30 bucks I'd probably order one with the updates they've made to it just for development purposes, I have a pretty good range of tools but new tools are always a nice addition to the toolbox.

1986ranger

Are you still planning to work on the jeep software? I would be very interested in a gen3 to jeep box!

PeteS160

This is very much still an active project. I'm currently working on the hardware to interface with the J1850VPW side of things. By current standards the VPW protocol is obsolete and very little is still offered for it outside of things like the Elm interface IC's. Ironically the Elm327 chip itsef cost more then most fully assembled Bluetooth dongles in retail packaging. I have dissected a number of cheaper Elm "clones" and even piggybacked into a couple of them but something like that isn't going to work outside of prototype testing something.

There are a couple of things I've been focusing on.....

1)Cost of the hardware

2)Time to assemble the hardware it by hand.

3)Quality of the circuit, safety and universal compatible with various types of code; it needs to be able to read AND write to the VPW data bus.

This isn't going to be a fast project....at least not done cheaply. Yes there are things I can buy, wire together with no pcb design and program each part separately using all " off the self " devices. The problem is it would be large and bulky, multiple parts connected together and very expensive. I am using commercial devices for prototyping; not for building.

3rd Gen to Jeep can absolutely be done regardless of the year. But even once the hardware is in place the entire data buss basically has to be revise engineered. Now that's not as complex as it sounds but it does require a complete electrical system (Pcm,Bcm,Tip for Chrysler, Dash Cluster etc.). Once the majority of data has been tested on a bench it needs to be validated in a vehicle. Once the data has been verified the hardware can be updated with the necessary values to make every thing work.

From a finical standpoint I have a fairly large amount of money already invested working to get the hardware side of this situated and I'm unable to buy the necessary computers/modules for what I would consider reasonable prices right now. For example: E38 pcm, T42 Tcm, Bcm and 4th gen cluster - By the time I have every thing programmed so that it matches(cause heaven forbid a salvage yard would sell me parts from the same vehicle) I'd have WELL over $500 bucks into the parts. I'll just have to keep checking pick-a-part yards and hope to get lucky or find someone in the area that's willing to let me spend a day or two with a complete vehicle collecting data from it. People just seem a bit turned off seeing strange wires running out of their vehicle and tend to get freaked out when you start unplugging modules.

PeteS160

Made some progress today with a 2005 Silverado cluster in a 98 Tahoe....

Tach - Working
Speedo - Working
Odometer - Working
Temp Gauge - Working
Gas Gauge - Working
Battery Light - Working
Check Engine Light - Working
Turn Signals - Working
Abs Light - Working
Cruise Light - Working
Tow/Haul Light - Working
Dash Lights - Working
Air bag light - Believed to be working but truck has the air bags unhooked so impossible to tell
Brake Light - Should be working, the truck does have a brake light on with the stock cluster and it's also on with the Silverado Cluster

Oil Gauge - Not programmed or wired yet
Battery Gauge - Missing data still
Steering Wheel Control - Not connected and missing data
Hi beam indicator - Need to change some hardware around

Overall a very successful maiden test drive. And most important of all.... NO BCM IS BEING USED ! ! ! ! !

CapSS92

That is friggin amazing!! It looks great.

Alex

130fe

iTrader: (14)

That looks awesome!

B52bombardier1

I'd love to see this in my El Camino but it would take some very large changes in my dashboard to fit it in. Still, I'm awestruck at the work you are doing here. Really fantastic.

Rick

PeteS160

Making some solid progress on this over the last couple of days.

Analog oil pressure gauge has been mapped out and can now transmit oil pressure readings onto the data bus. Here's a quick break down on what that means.

Common GM 0-80 ohm oil pressure sending unit that provides a resistance reading that "Older" clusters use to move the gauge needle.

0 Ohms = 0 Psi
40 Ohms = 40 Psi
80 Ohms = 80 Psi

The 2005 Silverado Cluster I'm working with runs the gauge over the data bus. Now I could have just switched to a 3 wire sending unit like the LS1B pcm's use but that involves additional wiring from the sending unit to the pcm.

Now the Cluster is looking for a signal like this.....

A8 4B 10 11 00 = 0 Psi
A8 4B 10 11 2E = 40 Psi
A8 4B 10 11 5A = 80 Psi


What I've done was build a circuit that can read the 0-80 ohms value into the module, the values are then mapped out as a voltage reading,,,obviously I've mapped the full range these are just examples

0.88V = A8 4B 10 11 00
1.29V = A8 4B 10 11 2E
1.70V = A8 4B 10 11 5A

I can then send the data to the cluster based on the readings that's been read from the newly mapped out values. To keep this as close to working the way they do stock I have also buffered the output values.....SLIGHTLY. The factory buffers then by about + or - 10 ps on a 500MS delay for gauge updates making the needle movement seem a bit delayed with out providing a lot of moment. I have also buffed them but only slightly....by + or - 2 Psi and changed the refresh rate from the stock 500ms delay...dropping it all the way down to 100ms delay. . This gives a MUCH more responsive gauge; much like you would expect if using a mechanical gauge.I played with the idea of completely removing all the buffering and delay but the oil pressure gauge can literally consume all the Bus bandwidth with just oil pressure gauge readings and it became pretty clear why the factory buffered the data in the first place. Since I won't be using this in "Stock" applications with 10+ computers present I have a great deal more room to work with on the data BUS.

joecar

Good job

JayinMI

It might cost you a fair amount up front, but if you get the Gen3 or Gen 4 to Chrysler/Jeep stuff figured out, it could become a good money maker for you. Have you seen what some of these places charge for "kits" to install LS or new Hemi's in JK's?! lol

Jay

PeteS160

I'm well aware of the highway robbery going on out there. Kind of the reason I started this in the 1st place.Guy I know was going to LS swap an 11 Jeep until he found out it HAD to be a 4th gen engine AND the "Swap Kit" with mounts, wiring and Gm to Jeep converter module was almost 6 grand. Looked into it a bit more and just the module to speak Gm to Chrysler was almost 3 grand. Now I'm sure the quality of the product is top notch.....but........it also prices it WELL outside of the budget of most swap guys. I'm not an electrical engineer and I'm sure my circuits would be considered questionable at best but as long as it gets the job done that's all the really matters.


As for the Jeep thing specifically.....well I'm currently negotiating with folks on Craigslist for a cheap blown up Jeep Liberty. It's not gonna be CAN....it'll be ISO protocol(I forget the specific number) but it'll serve the same purpose. That would take care of jeeps from around 2000/2001 up till around 06...maybe a couple of 07's. But once again the hardware is the hard part and once it's sorted out to go J1850 to ISO then it's just a matter of swapping out the ISO circuit for the CAN controller. The reset of the circuits will be the same. The big thing I'm interested in is the TIPM ALL Chrysler products use regardless of the year. They are prone to failure in stock applications and are NOT cheap, Who ever though it was a good idea to make a computer controlled fuse box needs to have their head checked. Eliminating the TIPM is going to be one of my 1st tasks. Basically swap the vehicle over to a 'Normal" type of fuse/relay box. That alone takes care of half the issues with Jeep swaps since with out the TIPM NOTHING in it would work.....not even the parking or dome lights. Depending on what it takes to eliminate it all together it may also have a market for stock vehicles lol. I just replaced the TIPM in an 08 Chrysler Town & Country at work that had no power to blower motor(TIPM had melted). A $30 blower motor that was pulling excessive current took out an $800 module.

And since I'll have a jeep sitting in my garage......might as well LS swap it for a summer beater. The only thing I can't decide is if I use the L59 or LQ4 I've got sitting in the corner.

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

If your system would ever be adaptable to a '98 Dakota, I'd keep mine and swap in an LS instead of selling it. Everything would have to work though...

PeteS160

Just took a quick look at wiring diagrams for your truck and it looks like it'll be the same as the Liberty. It's going to take me some time but I'll be able to get all the factory gauges working on the Liberty......I'm sure of that. Once that's done it's just a matter of verifying compatibility with other vehicles that use the same data bus.

No guarantee at this point.......but I'll say it looks VERY promising that it would work on your vehicle with little to no modification from what ever I come up with for the Jeep. Electrically it'll be a LOT simpler then building a standalone harness for an LS, I'm still a LONG ways away from the point I could start sourcing the type of connector that most dash clusters would need to make it plug and play. Right now using the 05 Silverado cluster in my 98 Tahoe I have something along the lines of 18 wires that connect to the vehicle.Some of them are for things like turn signals, Trans range switch, Hi beam indicator, Oil pressure, Check Engine light etc. Right now since this is my daily driver I've got every thing setup to "Plug In" but it's not pretty and the cluster would never fit in the dash with the method but it lets me put every thing on the passenger seat where I can work on it while it's all connected.

PeteS160

Quick update, did some in-vehicle testing tonight and now have the message center fully working.....even the nag messages for Low Oil and Low Coolant. Of course the truck doesn't have sensors for those so the messages pop up when i start it. Have to look though my list of data but I'm pretty sure I've already found the data pids to control those so I can add them right into the program. It was almost depressing to see my the average economy though. I'll have to keep an eye on the oil life monitor once I can leave the cluster in for a couple of weeks and see if it's actually doing any thing but it's ready % of oil life currently so I'm thinking it's going to work.

Only things left are....
Battery gauge....I'm starting to think my cluster is just defective and this gauge doesn't work.

Hi-Beam indicator - Need to get a 12V micro relay for the time being since my current circuit board design doesn't have provision for this.

Air Bag Light - My trucks air bag light is already one but I still don't have the data pid to turn the light off yet. The one I had turned out wasn't correct.

PetZ

it is very interesting stuff here


I just finished LS swap into my XJ and one thing I can not make work is the stock tach gauge because I can not simulate the jeep 4.0 crank signal for the Jeep ECM to send tach data to Jeep cluster. I know there is a solution from novak:
https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/...tach-emulator/
but this is a little bit pricey. If you will make some modul that can send the GM tach data to the chrysler CCD bus, I am interested.


peter

PeteS160

It sounds like you have kept the stock pcm in place correct? If so all your looking to do is convert the tach data from the LS to a signal the stock jeep pcm can read on the crank/cam sensor input making the stock jeep pcm think it's running....correct ?

If so take a look at the patterns below and see if any of them fit what you would need. What I think your looking for is a WHOLE LOT SIMPLER then what I am currently working on.

DIZZY_FOUR_CYLINDER, /* 2 evenly spaced teeth */
DIZZY_SIX_CYLINDER, /* 3 evenly spaced teeth */
DIZZY_EIGHT_CYLINDER, /* 4 evenly spaced teeth */
SIXTY_MINUS_TWO, /* 60-2 crank only */
SIXTY_MINUS_TWO_WITH_CAM, /* 60-2 with 2nd trigger on cam */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_ONE, /* 36-1 crank only */
FOUR_MINUS_ONE_WITH_CAM, /* 4-1 crank + cam */
EIGHT_MINUS_ONE, /* 8-1 crank only */
SIX_MINUS_ONE_WITH_CAM,/* 6-1 crank + cam */
TWELVE_MINUS_ONE_WITH_CAM, /* 12-1 crank + cam */
FOURTY_MINUS_ONE, /* Ford V-10 40-1 crank only */
DIZZY_FOUR_TRIGGER_RETURN, /* dizzy 4 cylinder signal, 40deg on 50 deg off */
ODDFIRE_VR, /* Oddfire V-twin */
OPTISPARK_LT1, /* Optispark 360 and 8 */
TWELVE_MINUS_THREE, /* 12-3 */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_TWO_TWO_TWO, /* 36-2-2-2 crank only */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_TWO_TWO_TWO_WITH_CAM, /* 36-2-2-2 crank and cam */
FOURTY_TWO_HUNDRED_WHEEL, /* 4200 wheel */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_ONE_WITH_CAM_FE3, /* Mazda F3 36-1 crank and cam */
SIX_G_SEVENTY_TWO_WITH_CAM, /* Mitsubishi DOHC CAS and TCDS 6G72 */
BUELL_ODDFIRE_CAM, /* Buell 45 deg cam wheel */
GM_LS1_CRANK_AND_CAM, /* GM LS1 24 tooth with cam */
LOTUS_THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_ONE_ONE_ONE_ONE, /* Lotus crank wheel 36-1-1-1-1 */
HONDA_RC51_WITH_CAM, /* Honda oddfire 90 deg V-twin */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_ONE_WITH_SECOND_TRIGGER, /* From jimstim */
THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_ONE_PLUS_ONE_WITH_CAM_NGC4, /* From jimstim 36-1+1 wheel #5 4 cyl chrysler? */
WEBER_IAW_WITH_CAM, /* From jimstim IAW weber-marelli */
FIAT_ONE_POINT_EIGHT_SIXTEEN_VALVE_WITH_CAM, /* Fiat 1.8 16V from jimstim */
THREE_SIXTY_NISSAN_CAS, /*from jimstim 360 tooth cas with 6 slots */
TWENTY_FOUR_MINUS_TWO_WITH_SECOND_TRIGGER, /* Mazda CAS 24-2 (two 12-1's end to end) inner ring single pulse outer ring */
YAMAHA_EIGHT_TOOTH_WITH_CAM, /* 02-03 Yamaha R1, seank */
GM_FOUR_TOOTH_WITH_CAM, /* GM 4 even crank with half moon cam */
GM_SIX_TOOTH_WITH_CAM, /* GM 4 even crank with half moon cam */
GM_EIGHT_TOOTH_WITH_CAM, /* GM 4 even crank with half moon cam */
VOLVO_D12ACD_WITH_CAM, /* Volvo Diesel d12[acd] with cam (alex32 on forums.libreems.org */
MAZDA_THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_TWO_TWO_TWO_WITH_SIX_TOOTH_ CAM,
SIXTY_MINUS_TWO_WITH_4X_CAM, /* GM 4X cam */
GEN4_DODGE_SRT_V10_SIXTY_MINUS_TWO_WITH_CAM, /* Gen IV Dodge Viper V-10 */
TWENTY_FOUR_MINUS_ONE_WITH_CAM, /* Hayabusa 24-1 with 1xcam during missing tooth */
FOUR_G_SIXTY_THREE_WITH_CAM, /* Mitsubishi & Mazda 4x crank and 2x cam CAS 4G63 */
SEADOO_THIRTY_SIX_MINUS_TWO, /* Standard SeaDoo 36-2 cranktrigger, 50% DC */