E36 BMW M3 LS1/ M6 has begun
10-15-2013, 02:55 PM
#163
Its been a while since I updated this thread. A LOT of changes have been made to the car. Long story short- the car would not stop running hot no matter what I did (in the configuration in the last video). The engine temps would run 220+ while driving and 230+ at idle. After changing the water pump and t-stat several times, the temp finally settled down to about 215 driving and 225 at idle. This still wasn't acceptable. My next step was the cooling fan. The huge problem that I was facing was the turbo location in relation to the fan/ radiator. When I built the car, I left just enough room or the thin SPAL fan. The fan wasn't powerful enough and there wasn't enough room for a larger/ thicker OEM fan. To solve this, I had to cut up the hot side of the turbo kit and move everything over toward the drivers side approximately 6". Then, I trimmed the shroud of a 2-speed Taurus fan down to fit my radiator. It fits perfectly. I used a Volvo 2-speed fan relay which is triggered from the Holley HP EFI. It pulls a ton more air than the SPAL fan (and its much quieter).
After I made the changes, the test drive showed an improvement. The temp stayed around 205 while driving and approx 215 at idle. I was expecting more, but this was a step in the right direction. Next, I pulled the large front mount intercooler and replaced it with the smaller one I have. The temps decreased again (less obstruction to the radiator air flow) but the boost dropped to a measly 4psi (from 7psi). This still wasn't ok, so the intercooler came off completely and I replaced it with a piece of straight pipe. Instantly, the engine temps dropped to 195 cruising... and 197 under boost AND idle. I saw 9 lbs of boost without the intercooler as well. IAT's shot up, but the engine temp was finally under control.
After researching air to water intercoolers, I pulled the trigger. The core is mounted behind the drivers headlight. The A2W heat exchanger is only 1" thick, it doesn't block airflow to the radiator like the FMIC did. Naturally, all the charge piping had to be redesigned to accommodate the new setup.
Again, it was test drive time. I am happy to report, engine temp stays at 195 or less while driving and 197 at idle after it is heat soaked. THANK GOD. Under boost I did see IAT's a little higher than I was hoping for, but I did not have the water pump for the A2W setup wired up yet. One additional benefit I discovered- the car makes 11lbs in 3rd gear (charge piping increased to 3" from 2.5"- not sure if this made much difference or not). This is 4 lbs more than it made with the "large" A2A intercooler.
I owe a huge THANK YOU to Matt Happel aka Denmah for assisting me with the timing curve on my computer. I was having a tough time figuring it out. Matt was awesome and helped make quick work of getting me setup with the info I needed. The car has 13* at max boost and holds a 11.5:1 AFR with no issues!
I am currently waiting for my driveline to be shortened and rebalanced. I never did get it shortened after the 210mm diff swap. Hopefully, it will be ready by the end of the week. I still have to wire the A2W water pump and install the boost control solenoid. I'm leary of upping the boost on the stock bottom end, but I may be able to get it to spool faster than it does now (its on the wastgate spring only).
Pics and video are coming, I promise!
After I made the changes, the test drive showed an improvement. The temp stayed around 205 while driving and approx 215 at idle. I was expecting more, but this was a step in the right direction. Next, I pulled the large front mount intercooler and replaced it with the smaller one I have. The temps decreased again (less obstruction to the radiator air flow) but the boost dropped to a measly 4psi (from 7psi). This still wasn't ok, so the intercooler came off completely and I replaced it with a piece of straight pipe. Instantly, the engine temps dropped to 195 cruising... and 197 under boost AND idle. I saw 9 lbs of boost without the intercooler as well. IAT's shot up, but the engine temp was finally under control.
After researching air to water intercoolers, I pulled the trigger. The core is mounted behind the drivers headlight. The A2W heat exchanger is only 1" thick, it doesn't block airflow to the radiator like the FMIC did. Naturally, all the charge piping had to be redesigned to accommodate the new setup.
Again, it was test drive time. I am happy to report, engine temp stays at 195 or less while driving and 197 at idle after it is heat soaked. THANK GOD. Under boost I did see IAT's a little higher than I was hoping for, but I did not have the water pump for the A2W setup wired up yet. One additional benefit I discovered- the car makes 11lbs in 3rd gear (charge piping increased to 3" from 2.5"- not sure if this made much difference or not). This is 4 lbs more than it made with the "large" A2A intercooler.
I owe a huge THANK YOU to Matt Happel aka Denmah for assisting me with the timing curve on my computer. I was having a tough time figuring it out. Matt was awesome and helped make quick work of getting me setup with the info I needed. The car has 13* at max boost and holds a 11.5:1 AFR with no issues!
I am currently waiting for my driveline to be shortened and rebalanced. I never did get it shortened after the 210mm diff swap. Hopefully, it will be ready by the end of the week. I still have to wire the A2W water pump and install the boost control solenoid. I'm leary of upping the boost on the stock bottom end, but I may be able to get it to spool faster than it does now (its on the wastgate spring only).
Pics and video are coming, I promise!
10-15-2013, 03:25 PM
#165
8 Second Club
damn james you should have just bought an electric water pump. $700 but youll never have heating problems again lol. hey get at me i want to shoot the **** since were both running now.
10-15-2013, 04:27 PM
#166
This was one of the most frustrating things I have dealt with on the build. It's been a learning experience! I'm looking forward driving the car and actually enjoying it. I'm tired of working on it!!!!
01-27-2014, 11:48 AM
#169
It's been a while since I updated this thread. There has been quite a bit if change.
The LS1 finally lost the ring lands on #7 piston. While tearing it down I had a problem getting the rod bolts out of #6 (bolt was so tight it stripped 5 sockets). I ended up having to grind the head off. Luckily, I sourced 3 pistons from a member here on LS1tech. I'm going to use two of them and have the good rod and good piston swapped from the original parts (to make one good rod and piston). This will net a fixed short block and 2 extra rods and pistons.
In addition to fixing the LS1, I picked up a complete Gen III 5.3 for free. As I tore it down, I discovered the heads were amazingly clean. The short block looked great as well. To be safe, the pistons were pulled so the ring gaps could be opened up. The rings were sludged so bad that they had to be replaced. The pistons soaked for a week in degreaser to loosen up the gunk. The replacement rings were gapped to .028 to make sure they were not going to butt under boost.
The day before I discovered the issue in the LS1, a friend contacted me about a 6.0 he had. He offered to sell it for a rock bottom price. I committed to buying it without seeing it. Fast forward a few weeks. My buddy delivered the 6.0. I was very happy to see it had 13mm valley cover bolts. It turns out to be a 2006 LQ4.
Now I have 3 engines torn down waiting for parts. All 3 will be back together in the near future!
I have been going back and forth on what engine to put back in. The 6.0 is what I decided on. The Gen IV engines are known to be much stronger than the Gen III.
The 6.0 will get the TSP 228R cam from the LS1. It will get new rings and bearings since it's already apart. I have a set of rebuilt 317 heads, just need to swap springs from LS1 heads.
In addition to the engine, the trans is getting swapped too. The car has been a ton of fun with the 6 speed, but I'm tired if it. A 4L80e is in the works. Circle D is setting me up with a triple disk converter. I won a Fast EZ TCU on eBay for a great price. The Fast TCU allows the use of paddle shifters 👍. I am working on adapting a set of paddles from an OEM application to the original BMW steering wheel. I'm 99% sure I have this figured out. Time will tell.
That's about it for now. I'm playing the waiting for parts/ ordering more parts game now.
The LS1 finally lost the ring lands on #7 piston. While tearing it down I had a problem getting the rod bolts out of #6 (bolt was so tight it stripped 5 sockets). I ended up having to grind the head off. Luckily, I sourced 3 pistons from a member here on LS1tech. I'm going to use two of them and have the good rod and good piston swapped from the original parts (to make one good rod and piston). This will net a fixed short block and 2 extra rods and pistons.
In addition to fixing the LS1, I picked up a complete Gen III 5.3 for free. As I tore it down, I discovered the heads were amazingly clean. The short block looked great as well. To be safe, the pistons were pulled so the ring gaps could be opened up. The rings were sludged so bad that they had to be replaced. The pistons soaked for a week in degreaser to loosen up the gunk. The replacement rings were gapped to .028 to make sure they were not going to butt under boost.
The day before I discovered the issue in the LS1, a friend contacted me about a 6.0 he had. He offered to sell it for a rock bottom price. I committed to buying it without seeing it. Fast forward a few weeks. My buddy delivered the 6.0. I was very happy to see it had 13mm valley cover bolts. It turns out to be a 2006 LQ4.
Now I have 3 engines torn down waiting for parts. All 3 will be back together in the near future!
I have been going back and forth on what engine to put back in. The 6.0 is what I decided on. The Gen IV engines are known to be much stronger than the Gen III.
The 6.0 will get the TSP 228R cam from the LS1. It will get new rings and bearings since it's already apart. I have a set of rebuilt 317 heads, just need to swap springs from LS1 heads.
In addition to the engine, the trans is getting swapped too. The car has been a ton of fun with the 6 speed, but I'm tired if it. A 4L80e is in the works. Circle D is setting me up with a triple disk converter. I won a Fast EZ TCU on eBay for a great price. The Fast TCU allows the use of paddle shifters 👍. I am working on adapting a set of paddles from an OEM application to the original BMW steering wheel. I'm 99% sure I have this figured out. Time will tell.
That's about it for now. I'm playing the waiting for parts/ ordering more parts game now.
02-28-2014, 06:45 PM
#172
Most of the short block parts have been delivered. If all goes well, I will have the block at the machine shop on Thursday. New bearings all around, new rings (gapped for boost) and the big ends of the rods will be checked. Once I get the green light, the engine will be assembled. I am working on plumbing the Edelbrock fuel rails with PTFE hose and tying it in with the existing -8/ -6 feed and return lines.
The transmission, shifter, etc is still a big hold up, but things are slowly coming together here as well. I still need to get the trans and engine connected so the trans controller and paddle shifter wiring can be tied into the engine harness. In addition to the mechanical stuff, I'm repainting part of the engine bay again. I dropped the alternator bracket when I was assembling it last time around (right after the 1st repaint). Hopefully the install will go a little smoother this time!!
The transmission, shifter, etc is still a big hold up, but things are slowly coming together here as well. I still need to get the trans and engine connected so the trans controller and paddle shifter wiring can be tied into the engine harness. In addition to the mechanical stuff, I'm repainting part of the engine bay again. I dropped the alternator bracket when I was assembling it last time around (right after the 1st repaint). Hopefully the install will go a little smoother this time!!
02-28-2014, 06:49 PM
#173
8 Second Club
Most of the short block parts have been delivered. If all goes well, I will have the block at the machine shop on Thursday. New bearings all around, new rings (gapped for boost) and the big ends of the rods will be checked. Once I get the green light, the engine will be assembled. I am working on plumbing the Edelbrock fuel rails with PTFE hose and tying it in with the existing -8/ -6 feed and return lines.
The transmission, shifter, etc is still a big hold up, but things are slowly coming together here as well. I still need to get the trans and engine connected so the trans controller and paddle shifter wiring can be tied into the engine harness. In addition to the mechanical stuff, I'm repainting part of the engine bay again. I dropped the alternator bracket when I was assembling it last time around (right after the 1st repaint). Hopefully the install will go a little smoother this time!!
The transmission, shifter, etc is still a big hold up, but things are slowly coming together here as well. I still need to get the trans and engine connected so the trans controller and paddle shifter wiring can be tied into the engine harness. In addition to the mechanical stuff, I'm repainting part of the engine bay again. I dropped the alternator bracket when I was assembling it last time around (right after the 1st repaint). Hopefully the install will go a little smoother this time!!
05-27-2014, 07:50 PM
#175
Time for an update! The trans is finally done. The 6.0 was back from the machine shop and reassembled, but I decided to upgrade to LS7 lifters and LS9 head gaskets. They are bought and paid for- waiting game again.
After a complete cluster f@$k with Comp Turbo- 2 months of trying to get a larger housing- I finally received it. The inside diameter was .100 too small. The cartridge doesn't fit. The new housing is at the machine shop to be machined correctly.
I also swapped the shift lever shaft on the 4L80E for one out of a TH400. It took a minor amount of modification to make it work. The end result was eliminating the mlps, it's not needed for the Fast EZ TCU. The additional clearance is going to help a lot.
New billet fuel rails are installed on the intake along with 96lb injectors, PTFE -8 lines, etc. I think it turned out very clean.
I'm also modifying a set of Edelbrock coil covers. The goal is to have them resemble the original "M POWER" script. It took close to 5 hours to clearance the drivers side cover to fit around the Corvette alt and bracket. It's been a pain!!
The new exhaust housing us a 1.59 with 4" v-band. The new down pipe looks massive in comparison to the 3".
After a complete cluster f@$k with Comp Turbo- 2 months of trying to get a larger housing- I finally received it. The inside diameter was .100 too small. The cartridge doesn't fit. The new housing is at the machine shop to be machined correctly.
I also swapped the shift lever shaft on the 4L80E for one out of a TH400. It took a minor amount of modification to make it work. The end result was eliminating the mlps, it's not needed for the Fast EZ TCU. The additional clearance is going to help a lot.
New billet fuel rails are installed on the intake along with 96lb injectors, PTFE -8 lines, etc. I think it turned out very clean.
I'm also modifying a set of Edelbrock coil covers. The goal is to have them resemble the original "M POWER" script. It took close to 5 hours to clearance the drivers side cover to fit around the Corvette alt and bracket. It's been a pain!!
The new exhaust housing us a 1.59 with 4" v-band. The new down pipe looks massive in comparison to the 3".
Last edited by unnatrl; 05-27-2014 at 09:28 PM.
05-27-2014, 08:24 PM
#176
8 Second Club
Time for an update! The trans is finally done. The 6.0 was back from the machine shop and reassembled, but I decided to upgrade to LS7 lifters and LS9 head gaskets. They are bought and paid for- waiting game again. After a complete cluster f@$k with Comp Turbo- 2 months of trying to get a larger housing- I finally received it. The inside diameter was .100 too small. The cartridge doesn't fit. The new housing is at the machine shop to be machined correctly. I also swapped the shift lever shaft on the 4L80E for one out of a TH400. It elimated the mlps but I don't need it for the Fast EZ TCU. The additional clearance is going to help a lot.
07-15-2014, 01:22 AM
#179
Picture updates. Added paddle shifters to the steering wheel. The other pics are showing a TH400 shift lever shaft installed in the 4L80e to make much needed room for the shift lever. It would have never fit with the mlps and longer shift shaft. The other pics show where the trans case touched the right unibody rail and the trans tunnel. I had to space the front subframe down because the 4L80e sits lower in the trans tunnel (causing the engine to sit too high). The spacers evened things out.
07-15-2014, 10:37 AM
#180
8 Second Club
Picture updates. Added paddle shifters to the steering wheel. The other pics are showing a TH400 shift lever shaft installed in the 4L80e to make much needed room for the shift lever. It would have never fit with the mlps and longer shift shaft. The other pics show where the trans case touched the right unibody rail and the trans tunnel. I had to space the front subframe down because the 4L80e sits lower in the trans tunnel (causing the engine to sit too high). The spacers evened things out.
haha i play. looks good james. glad to see this thing is finally coming around.