MSD-6010, no fire!
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TECH Junkie
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Port Neches, TX
MSD-6010, no fire! Hi All,
Here I am finally ready to crank my "new" engine and it won't fire. My MSD-6010 is about 3 yrs old, but has been in the box until a month ago. I hooked up my laptop and it shows "0" cranking RPM. The motor is from a 23k mile 2003 Corvette with only a cam/pushrod/springs/timing chain change, otherwise stock.
So, what are the symptoms of a "dead" box? And what is the procedure for getting tech support/returning it? Can MSD check these by serial number?
Tomorrow, I plan to double check my power and grounds, but I'm confident they're OK...
Thanks!
Russ
Here I am finally ready to crank my "new" engine and it won't fire. My MSD-6010 is about 3 yrs old, but has been in the box until a month ago. I hooked up my laptop and it shows "0" cranking RPM. The motor is from a 23k mile 2003 Corvette with only a cam/pushrod/springs/timing chain change, otherwise stock.
So, what are the symptoms of a "dead" box? And what is the procedure for getting tech support/returning it? Can MSD check these by serial number?
Tomorrow, I plan to double check my power and grounds, but I'm confident they're OK...
Thanks!
Russ
Check power and ground first, then check that the crank and cam sensors are plugged in properly. Next look on the laptop to see what happens, basically you call MSD and ship them your box and they'll update it and ship it back. My MSD box has started my car probably 50 times now right away everytime in the past month I've had it running. No complaints here, bought the box about 6 months ago.
Make sure you have power when cranking too. I have seen several people hook into a run only circut instead of a run start circut. I have never had any issues with the three 6010's I have set up but I have heard there are issues with them.
Also try fully charging the battery or jumping the battery. If the box doesnt see 200 RPMs it wont fire. Do you have a timing pill in the box to get it to start or have you atleast uploaded a tune?
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (11)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
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From: Port Neches, TX
Check power and ground first, then check that the crank and cam sensors are plugged in properly. Next look on the laptop to see what happens, basically you call MSD and ship them your box and they'll update it and ship it back. My MSD box has started my car probably 50 times now right away everytime in the past month I've had it running. No complaints here, bought the box about 6 months ago.
Anybody have a list of the possible error codes in graphview while connected? After looking around MSD's forum (I signed up, but can't post yet), it appears that some peeps with their battery "trunk-mounted" like mine are experiencing trouble. MSD says grounding through the chassis is a no-no. Personally, I can't see it... They also recommended grounding both heads (tried that today, no help) to the block, which is grounded to the chassis with 16" of #2 wire. My MSD box is under the dash and my harness has pretty much been incorporated into the chassis harness. I haven't paid any attention to the coil wiring yet since I have no cranking RPM's showing...
Russ
if you only have 9.9volt while cranking that is your issue. the box needs to see around 12 volts minimum during cranking to fire up. Sounds like a weak battery to me, just the starter shouldn't pull it down that far.
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I just went through this and this is what I had to do to check it per MSD tech:
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
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I just went through this and this is what I had to do to check it per MSD tech:
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
You beat me to my suggestion. A very common problem. Hopefully MSD has a solid fix.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (11)
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Port Neches, TX
I just went through this and this is what I had to do to check it per MSD tech:
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
1: pull all 8 plugs and hook to plug wire and lay plugs onto the coil brackets.
2:Hook your lap top to the box and start up the tuning software.
3: Spin motor over with the plugs out and see if you get a RPM reading and of course see if the plugs are firing.
If the answer is yes, then they will send you a UPS shipping label to return the box to them for replacement.
This is a known issue, for some reason the box will not read RPM at low engine cranking speeds.
Interesting! I wonder what they are doing to (the boxes to) rectify this? I was in for the day, but my curiousity is up and that wouldn't take long...
< Well, that didn't work either, still no fire. Did find something interesting though, I previously tested for connectivity by sucking on the MAP hose while hooked up to the laptop. With the key on, the MAP table would show corresponding movement. However, as soon as I crank it, the MAP reading freezes no matter what is happening with the vacuum (no change while cranking).
Something else strange. I VOM'ed my distribution block (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103983&tab=summary) and found continuity between the ground part and the 12V key-on part, yet no fuses are blown and everything else tied into it works as expected. Guess I need to run a direct hot and see what happens...>
Russ
Last edited by S10xGN; May 17, 2009 at 02:56 PM. Reason: new info
your msd box wires should be ran directly to the battery or the pos cutoff switch and to the batt ground as well. I used 10 gauge wire, skip running through 40 year old junk factory wiring. Hop on a quality relay and a fuse holder and you're golden.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (11)
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From: Port Neches, TX
Russ
Most newer cars wont start if the cranking voltage drops below 10.5v when cranking. It screws with the sensor signal too much. As stated check your engine to chassis ground and charge the battery. Also try direct wiring the box to the battery for testing purposes.
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
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From: Port Neches, TX
Thiis ended up being the problem. Sorry if it seemed like I blew you off, I just couldn't get my head around it. After trying a bunch of ineffective stuff, I tried putting the key in "RUN" and using a remote starter button to crank the motor and my 8 little plugs (still mounted to my aluminum ground block) are jumping the gap.
Got my factory wiring diagrams out and took another look. The factory harness had a 12V wire direct from the starter solenoid to the coil + post along with a reduced voltage (ballast resistor) wire through the "RUN" position. When cranking only, the coil got the full 12V but when the key was released and snapped back to "RUN", the reduced voltage from that position fed the coil.
So, now I need to add a relay from BATT to the MSD using the starter wire as the trigger. I'll post back this weekend...
Thanks!
Russ
Im glad I could help. I have been an auto tech for about 13 years now and most "Horrible Issues/Problems" I have encountered are always from something very very simple. I always tell my trainee's to check the stupid stuff first b/c normally someone else did not.
So how does it drive??
So how does it drive??
Thread Starter
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (11)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,782
Likes: 7
From: Port Neches, TX
YOWZA!
Thiis ended up being the problem. Sorry if it seemed like I blew you off, I just couldn't get my head around it. After trying a bunch of ineffective stuff, I tried putting the key in "RUN" and using a remote starter button to crank the motor and my 8 little plugs (still mounted to my aluminum ground block) are jumping the gap.
Got my factory wiring diagrams out and took another look. The factory harness had a 12V wire direct from the starter solenoid to the coil + post along with a reduced voltage (ballast resistor) wire through the "RUN" position. When cranking only, the coil got the full 12V but when the key was released and snapped back to "RUN", the reduced voltage from that position fed the coil.
So, now I need to add a relay from BATT to the MSD using the starter wire as the trigger. I'll post back this weekend...
Thanks!
Russ
Thiis ended up being the problem. Sorry if it seemed like I blew you off, I just couldn't get my head around it. After trying a bunch of ineffective stuff, I tried putting the key in "RUN" and using a remote starter button to crank the motor and my 8 little plugs (still mounted to my aluminum ground block) are jumping the gap.
Got my factory wiring diagrams out and took another look. The factory harness had a 12V wire direct from the starter solenoid to the coil + post along with a reduced voltage (ballast resistor) wire through the "RUN" position. When cranking only, the coil got the full 12V but when the key was released and snapped back to "RUN", the reduced voltage from that position fed the coil.
So, now I need to add a relay from BATT to the MSD using the starter wire as the trigger. I'll post back this weekend...
Thanks!
Russ
