Yet another, BMW E-36 LSx conversion...
Update.*
With the trans X-member in hand, progress is steadily being made down the home stretch.*
These pics are of the JTR preproduction X-member, production bits may vary slightly when released. A very stout design that utilizes the OE LS1 rubber isolator and maintains lots of room for a tidy tight exhaust system.*
Finished the shifter as well, will work on the body rubber boot tomorrow. Planning to run the Camaro/Firebird ball shift **** for know, will probably modify the Hurst shift arm to accept the smaller ID Vette **** with 6 speed pattern in the future. Best friend gave me the 6 speed plaque, hoping to mount/inset it in this location.*
Best friend also finished up my ugly rear shock tower mounts today as well, something he offered to help with early on. I knew my shock tower mounts were needing replacement when I bought the car so bought the new sheetmetal from BMW then. When I dug deeper recently to get started, opened a can of worms. My shock tower mounts had been replaced in the past, hack install, and were now blown out again, due to the hack fix in the past the typical method of drill the spotwelds and replace the Sheetmetal was not an option, not able to use the bits I bought from BMW now needing the fenderwell Sheetmetal as well. Finally an E36 showed up at one of the local Upullit yards, took cordless sawzall and cut out both rear fenderwells.*
Pics are before and after of drivers side, passenger side was similar.*
With the trans X-member in hand, progress is steadily being made down the home stretch.*
These pics are of the JTR preproduction X-member, production bits may vary slightly when released. A very stout design that utilizes the OE LS1 rubber isolator and maintains lots of room for a tidy tight exhaust system.*
Finished the shifter as well, will work on the body rubber boot tomorrow. Planning to run the Camaro/Firebird ball shift **** for know, will probably modify the Hurst shift arm to accept the smaller ID Vette **** with 6 speed pattern in the future. Best friend gave me the 6 speed plaque, hoping to mount/inset it in this location.*
Best friend also finished up my ugly rear shock tower mounts today as well, something he offered to help with early on. I knew my shock tower mounts were needing replacement when I bought the car so bought the new sheetmetal from BMW then. When I dug deeper recently to get started, opened a can of worms. My shock tower mounts had been replaced in the past, hack install, and were now blown out again, due to the hack fix in the past the typical method of drill the spotwelds and replace the Sheetmetal was not an option, not able to use the bits I bought from BMW now needing the fenderwell Sheetmetal as well. Finally an E36 showed up at one of the local Upullit yards, took cordless sawzall and cut out both rear fenderwells.*
Pics are before and after of drivers side, passenger side was similar.*
Reliable source noted my solid shifter linkage would transmit engine buzz/tingle, will be looking to rubber isolate the shifter in the near future to help retain as much of the original BMW smoothness as possible.
Between family activities today, was able to button up the interior 99% today. Just need to adjust the clutch and brake pedal switches engagement/disengagement for the GM cruise control.
Tags on steering wheel are power-train fluids notes/reminders.
Ancillaries and serpentine installed, Intake is on, clutch hydraulics connected, throttle connected, all EFI connections made. Waiting on the Stage locking header bolts to arrive, hopefully this week.
If all goes well, could pull it out of the shop under it's own power this coming weekend, following week to be shake down for bugs, leaks, etc.
Here's a shot with EFI wiring connected, ancillaries on, throttle connected etc.
Between family activities today, was able to button up the interior 99% today. Just need to adjust the clutch and brake pedal switches engagement/disengagement for the GM cruise control.
Tags on steering wheel are power-train fluids notes/reminders.
Ancillaries and serpentine installed, Intake is on, clutch hydraulics connected, throttle connected, all EFI connections made. Waiting on the Stage locking header bolts to arrive, hopefully this week.
If all goes well, could pull it out of the shop under it's own power this coming weekend, following week to be shake down for bugs, leaks, etc.
Here's a shot with EFI wiring connected, ancillaries on, throttle connected etc.
The mother of all updates for this build.....
It's alive!
Tuesday night after some fiddling with the PCM, feeling brave I put the wheels on and set it on the ground. First movement under it's own power was the obligatory burnout in the shop. ;-) Drove it 100 yards down the road and back, WOO HOO! Thursday night, fiddled a little more with HP-Tuners, feeling brave again, drove the car around the lake, 3 mile jaunt. It ran, but not well, flat spots, surging, etc. Within minutes of pulling back in, the shop Tongboy pulls up with his LS1 M3 sedan for some fine tweaking of a couple parameters in his PCM, he graciously allowed me to use his tune for the "write entire" to delete the DBW programming in my PCM so I didn't have spend two more credits using another tune.
thank you Jeremiah.
Friday morning, performed write entire. TPS now registers in VCM scanner. Engine fired up, another trip around the lake with open headers, stretched it's legs from 1st through 3rd gear, Definitely quicker than it was with the S52, then Drove it 10 miles through down town to the muffler shop with open headers to tie in the M3 exhaust to the headers. *
HUGE thank you to Mike of JTR for his patience with all my crying over the past 2 years and for what I feel is a very well engineered, robust LSx E36 kit.*
The 260-Z in the background has the S52 from my M, it has been on the road for the past few months and is amazingly fun to drive.*
It's alive!
Tuesday night after some fiddling with the PCM, feeling brave I put the wheels on and set it on the ground. First movement under it's own power was the obligatory burnout in the shop. ;-) Drove it 100 yards down the road and back, WOO HOO! Thursday night, fiddled a little more with HP-Tuners, feeling brave again, drove the car around the lake, 3 mile jaunt. It ran, but not well, flat spots, surging, etc. Within minutes of pulling back in, the shop Tongboy pulls up with his LS1 M3 sedan for some fine tweaking of a couple parameters in his PCM, he graciously allowed me to use his tune for the "write entire" to delete the DBW programming in my PCM so I didn't have spend two more credits using another tune.
thank you Jeremiah.
Friday morning, performed write entire. TPS now registers in VCM scanner. Engine fired up, another trip around the lake with open headers, stretched it's legs from 1st through 3rd gear, Definitely quicker than it was with the S52, then Drove it 10 miles through down town to the muffler shop with open headers to tie in the M3 exhaust to the headers. *
HUGE thank you to Mike of JTR for his patience with all my crying over the past 2 years and for what I feel is a very well engineered, robust LSx E36 kit.*
The 260-Z in the background has the S52 from my M, it has been on the road for the past few months and is amazingly fun to drive.*
Talked to Ryan, owner and fabricator at Mulligans custom exhaust and custom hot rods in Sandy today, he said the exhaust is done and it's a sleeper. I took that to mean it's quiet, exactly what I wanted. I gave him him free reign with the exhaust, wanting to retain as much of the stock exhaust as possible, in particular the stock M3 muffler, neck down from the 3" collectors to 2 1/2".dum
Stopped in and took a peek under the car, WOW! very nice work, Ryan is a craftsman, too bad his work under the car where isn't seen very often. All bends are mandrel, welds are beautiful, came out much nicer than I hoped. Ryan transitioned from the 3" collector immediately to 2 1/2", tidy quality 2 1/2" flex joints just aft of the V-band, 2 pair of O2 bungs per pipe pre cat, (one each for narrow band O2, other two for wide band tuning). The stock cats with their angled inlet was not worth working with so he installed a pair of tight tidy aftermarket 2 1/2" cats then added 2 post cat O2 bungs. I wanted this to be quiet as a daily driver so adding another muffler in line with the stock M3 muffler was on the list. As luck has it, the BMW tunnel is just wide enough and deep enough to fit a dual 2 1/2" In-Out dummuffler, Ryan and I both like the crisp snap and snarl of a V8 exhaust note through Spintechs. From there he continued in 2 1/2" to the stock M3 tail pipe where it necks up to just under 2 1/2" from the 2" or so.dum
He used the BMW carrier bearing mount holes for rubber isolated hangers.dum
Fabrication and installation is 1st rate, anyone in the greater Portland OR area needing custom exhaust or any custom performance fabrication work, I strongly recommend Ryan at Mulligans in Sandy. Humble, down to earth, great guy. ;-)
http://www.mulligansmuffler.com/
How does it sound? Uh.... well, it is soooo quiet there's nothing really to judge, not much of an exhaust note. Standing behind the car about 20 feet back, someone in the car revving up the engine, you can hear the intake under the closed hood, (sans filter), over the exhaust. Total sleeper. Ryan says it's too quiet. Before he tied in the stock muffler he said with just the Spintech it sounded AWESOME!dum
Drive home was AWESOME! car is as quiet as a stock M3 if not quieter inside.dum
HUGE thank you to Mike of JTR for his use of OE GM engine/trans isolators, even with these moderately firm Vette isolators that don't allow any movement by hand, it is smooth, no buzzy-ness. Best friend drove it tonight and commented on it being so quiet and smooth, the car is deceptively quick. No aural indicator or buzz to indicate the car is working hard other than the rapidly climbing speedo needle.dum
4 day weekend for me starting Friday, will take apart the front end to properly reassemble and working out any bugs, hope to be driving it daily starting Tuesday.dum
Video to come soon.dum
Here are some pics of the exhaust work, my apologies for the poor cel phone photo quality.dum
Standing under oil pan looking back;
From behind looking up;
The Spintech and hangers;
Profile;
Stopped in and took a peek under the car, WOW! very nice work, Ryan is a craftsman, too bad his work under the car where isn't seen very often. All bends are mandrel, welds are beautiful, came out much nicer than I hoped. Ryan transitioned from the 3" collector immediately to 2 1/2", tidy quality 2 1/2" flex joints just aft of the V-band, 2 pair of O2 bungs per pipe pre cat, (one each for narrow band O2, other two for wide band tuning). The stock cats with their angled inlet was not worth working with so he installed a pair of tight tidy aftermarket 2 1/2" cats then added 2 post cat O2 bungs. I wanted this to be quiet as a daily driver so adding another muffler in line with the stock M3 muffler was on the list. As luck has it, the BMW tunnel is just wide enough and deep enough to fit a dual 2 1/2" In-Out dummuffler, Ryan and I both like the crisp snap and snarl of a V8 exhaust note through Spintechs. From there he continued in 2 1/2" to the stock M3 tail pipe where it necks up to just under 2 1/2" from the 2" or so.dum
He used the BMW carrier bearing mount holes for rubber isolated hangers.dum
Fabrication and installation is 1st rate, anyone in the greater Portland OR area needing custom exhaust or any custom performance fabrication work, I strongly recommend Ryan at Mulligans in Sandy. Humble, down to earth, great guy. ;-)
http://www.mulligansmuffler.com/
How does it sound? Uh.... well, it is soooo quiet there's nothing really to judge, not much of an exhaust note. Standing behind the car about 20 feet back, someone in the car revving up the engine, you can hear the intake under the closed hood, (sans filter), over the exhaust. Total sleeper. Ryan says it's too quiet. Before he tied in the stock muffler he said with just the Spintech it sounded AWESOME!dum
Drive home was AWESOME! car is as quiet as a stock M3 if not quieter inside.dum
HUGE thank you to Mike of JTR for his use of OE GM engine/trans isolators, even with these moderately firm Vette isolators that don't allow any movement by hand, it is smooth, no buzzy-ness. Best friend drove it tonight and commented on it being so quiet and smooth, the car is deceptively quick. No aural indicator or buzz to indicate the car is working hard other than the rapidly climbing speedo needle.dum
4 day weekend for me starting Friday, will take apart the front end to properly reassemble and working out any bugs, hope to be driving it daily starting Tuesday.dum
Video to come soon.dum
Here are some pics of the exhaust work, my apologies for the poor cel phone photo quality.dum
Standing under oil pan looking back;
From behind looking up;
The Spintech and hangers;
Profile;
Maiden voyage update.
Buttoned up the front end today, took care of the Alt charge light, drove into town, filled the tank and put 30 miles on it, mix of highway and tight twisty backroads. Drove excellent, LOVE the additional torque, no added noise or buzziness, the rubber mounts keep the smooth BMW refinement, no sacrifice in performance. ;-)
Brought it back home, obligatory burnout video. You can sort of tell how quiet it truly is in the video, note how loud the hood closing is and induction noise vs exhaust noise. WOT bouncing off the rev limiter set at 6000 RPM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKa34tRFjDU
Yee HAAA
Buttoned up the front end today, took care of the Alt charge light, drove into town, filled the tank and put 30 miles on it, mix of highway and tight twisty backroads. Drove excellent, LOVE the additional torque, no added noise or buzziness, the rubber mounts keep the smooth BMW refinement, no sacrifice in performance. ;-)
Brought it back home, obligatory burnout video. You can sort of tell how quiet it truly is in the video, note how loud the hood closing is and induction noise vs exhaust noise. WOT bouncing off the rev limiter set at 6000 RPM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKa34tRFjDU
Yee HAAA
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TECH Regular
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 419
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ok man you are killing me!
you have a kickass v8 M3 sedan now and it looks awesome!
But the best part is you stuffed your M3 motor/trans into an old ZCAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
thats so cool, I will be dreaming of your garage as mine for a week or two for sure.
nice build and great posts, congrats, the e36 sounds wicked!
you have a kickass v8 M3 sedan now and it looks awesome!
But the best part is you stuffed your M3 motor/trans into an old ZCAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
thats so cool, I will be dreaming of your garage as mine for a week or two for sure.
nice build and great posts, congrats, the e36 sounds wicked!
First maintenance, starter R&R. My new cheapo eBay starter decided to eat itself on Sunday, parked the car and ordered another $80 cheapo starter, will be here Friday.
Starter removal was painless, just unbolt the passenger lollipop and lower the passenger header, (unbolting the lollipop allows for header manipulation to extricate the starter). Thank goodness for V-band collector flanges and reusable OE GM MLS exhaust gaskets.dum
The JTR Sanderson headers have a V-band flange set up much like the hub-centric design BMW uses for the wheels. Exhaust pipe slips into the header V-band flange locating it radially so the V-band itself only has to clamp, not align.
Sanderson headers also incorporates a wonderful design for the head flange seal. As the bolts are tightened the flange won't warp or distort maintaing a positive leak proof seal. I REused the OE GM MLS gaskets from my wifes Suburban with 160,000 miles, and they sealed 100%, and the bolts were still tight, no backing out.
Heads up for those using the cheapo $70-$90 LSx gear reduction starters as found on eBay. The planetary ring gear of the gear reduction being made of plastic WILL fail if overloaded. I don't know if the genuine GM starter is any different, ymmv. If the starter is over loaded, the ring gear will crack/split and proceed to strip its own teeth quite rapidly. I looked and didn't find many complaints, though my first hand experience is not to overload it with a seized engine, cranking while in gear, tons of compression, etc, or it WILL fail.
Starter removal was painless, just unbolt the passenger lollipop and lower the passenger header, (unbolting the lollipop allows for header manipulation to extricate the starter). Thank goodness for V-band collector flanges and reusable OE GM MLS exhaust gaskets.dum
The JTR Sanderson headers have a V-band flange set up much like the hub-centric design BMW uses for the wheels. Exhaust pipe slips into the header V-band flange locating it radially so the V-band itself only has to clamp, not align.
Sanderson headers also incorporates a wonderful design for the head flange seal. As the bolts are tightened the flange won't warp or distort maintaing a positive leak proof seal. I REused the OE GM MLS gaskets from my wifes Suburban with 160,000 miles, and they sealed 100%, and the bolts were still tight, no backing out.
Heads up for those using the cheapo $70-$90 LSx gear reduction starters as found on eBay. The planetary ring gear of the gear reduction being made of plastic WILL fail if overloaded. I don't know if the genuine GM starter is any different, ymmv. If the starter is over loaded, the ring gear will crack/split and proceed to strip its own teeth quite rapidly. I looked and didn't find many complaints, though my first hand experience is not to overload it with a seized engine, cranking while in gear, tons of compression, etc, or it WILL fail.
New starter is in, did a Bubba fix to get the center of the fuel tank above the tunnel roof so it wouldn't rub on the drive shaft, gave the car a quick rinse, my oldest daughter asked to drive it around the lake, and off we went. Every time she pushed on the throttle she giggled, when she tried WOT in 2nd and 3rd, giggles stopped, BIG eyes, then lots of giggling.dum
Lots of little stuff to finish such as PCV, air filter, mounting the GM cruise module, etc. Till the next update, a few shots after the rinse.dum
Lots of little stuff to finish such as PCV, air filter, mounting the GM cruise module, etc. Till the next update, a few shots after the rinse.dum
Put 150 more miles on it over the weekend, LOVING it. Runs and drives just like the stock M3, similar power band and same drivability but with a butt-load more torque everywhere, even with the tiny 5.3. ;-)
Hooked up the GM cruise control and it works perfect. Also hooked up the cooling fan, still have a few more loose ends to tie up such as intake plumbing, PCV, etc. taking it to work this week, 153 mile per day round trip
Love the GM cruise control, doesn't lag over hills and responds crisply to accel/decel inputs. Another attribute of GM cruise strategy that I really like is each click of accel or decel raises or lowers your speed by exactly 1 MPH per click, 5 quick clicks adds or subtracts 5 MPH even if coming down a hill and it takes several seconds to coast down, it gives you what you asked for, not just a momentary switch you hold till you reach the desired speed.
Hooked up the GM cruise control and it works perfect. Also hooked up the cooling fan, still have a few more loose ends to tie up such as intake plumbing, PCV, etc. taking it to work this week, 153 mile per day round trip
Love the GM cruise control, doesn't lag over hills and responds crisply to accel/decel inputs. Another attribute of GM cruise strategy that I really like is each click of accel or decel raises or lowers your speed by exactly 1 MPH per click, 5 quick clicks adds or subtracts 5 MPH even if coming down a hill and it takes several seconds to coast down, it gives you what you asked for, not just a momentary switch you hold till you reach the desired speed.
Wife says AC is a must, condenser is on the way and if my M compressor wont fit will be sourcing a compressor.
MPG update. 90% freeway, 65-70 MPH, 10% city, tight mountain backroads, (2nd gear), handful of WOT blasts to 90-115, PCM with mix & match maps and settings, LTFT showing 10-20% compensation, achieved 26.7 MPG. I am quite pleased with that considering. With a bit of tuning I think 28-29 MPG under the same conditions is a reality.
MPG update. 90% freeway, 65-70 MPH, 10% city, tight mountain backroads, (2nd gear), handful of WOT blasts to 90-115, PCM with mix & match maps and settings, LTFT showing 10-20% compensation, achieved 26.7 MPG. I am quite pleased with that considering. With a bit of tuning I think 28-29 MPG under the same conditions is a reality.
2200 miles on the clock and still going strong, LOVING having it back as my daily driver. Most common phrase people use when they drive it or ride in it is, "refined". Mission accomplished, thank you JTR. ;-)
Only issue right now is the engine itself, oiling issues, (currently very weak oil pressure) since it sat for 5 months since first start. I don't expect it to live much longer, I'll just keep driving till it dies. Currently looking for a stock sub 150,000 mile 2001 or newer 6.0L long block to swap in.
Only issue right now is the engine itself, oiling issues, (currently very weak oil pressure) since it sat for 5 months since first start. I don't expect it to live much longer, I'll just keep driving till it dies. Currently looking for a stock sub 150,000 mile 2001 or newer 6.0L long block to swap in.
3500 mile update.
Friggen LOVE the conversion, Soo smooth, abundance of torque, quiet, yadda yadda yadda.
Brown Santa dropped this off for testing...
Will hopefully get the 2 piece driveshaft installed this coming weekend for testing.
2+ years ago bought HID headlights, tailights, Euro M3 steering wheel, waited till the car was on the road to install the goodies, last week was that time. Also attached my 16-valve sucka emblem, 6 speed badge with the ASC delete. ABS still functions perfectly tested on wet and gravel road, modded the fog lights to remain on with highbeams as well.
Friggen LOVE the conversion, Soo smooth, abundance of torque, quiet, yadda yadda yadda.
Brown Santa dropped this off for testing...
Will hopefully get the 2 piece driveshaft installed this coming weekend for testing.
2+ years ago bought HID headlights, tailights, Euro M3 steering wheel, waited till the car was on the road to install the goodies, last week was that time. Also attached my 16-valve sucka emblem, 6 speed badge with the ASC delete. ABS still functions perfectly tested on wet and gravel road, modded the fog lights to remain on with highbeams as well.
Last edited by BRAAPZ; Dec 14, 2012 at 10:56 AM.
