engine/driveline mounting angle?
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Staging Lane
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From: Cleveland, Ohio 44011
engine/driveline mounting angle? In more than one place, I've read that the engine/trans needs to be tipped back at 1 to 5 degrees. Even my LS1 swap book says it, but doesn't say why.
I've heard arguments about lining up the driveline to the differential pinion, about getting the oil back to the sump of the pan, about making the front of the motor the high point so that air bubbles can get to the water pump and get vented to the radiator/reservoir, and I understand the steam lines as well.
-For what its worth, I'm going to run steam lines on all four corners of the motor.
So, I challenge anyone to tell me why I can't mount my motor horizontal, flat, front to back....
I've heard arguments about lining up the driveline to the differential pinion, about getting the oil back to the sump of the pan, about making the front of the motor the high point so that air bubbles can get to the water pump and get vented to the radiator/reservoir, and I understand the steam lines as well.
-For what its worth, I'm going to run steam lines on all four corners of the motor.
So, I challenge anyone to tell me why I can't mount my motor horizontal, flat, front to back....
In more than one place, I've read that the engine/trans needs to be tipped back at 1 to 5 degrees. Even my LS1 swap book says it, but doesn't say why.
I've heard arguments about lining up the driveline to the differential pinion, about getting the oil back to the sump of the pan, about making the front of the motor the high point so that air bubbles can get to the water pump and get vented to the radiator/reservoir, and I understand the steam lines as well.
-For what its worth, I'm going to run steam lines on all four corners of the motor.
So, I challenge anyone to tell me why I can't mount my motor horizontal, flat, front to back....
I've heard arguments about lining up the driveline to the differential pinion, about getting the oil back to the sump of the pan, about making the front of the motor the high point so that air bubbles can get to the water pump and get vented to the radiator/reservoir, and I understand the steam lines as well.
-For what its worth, I'm going to run steam lines on all four corners of the motor.
So, I challenge anyone to tell me why I can't mount my motor horizontal, flat, front to back....
All factory setups are in that neighborhood and are designed to be at that angle. The engine being lower than the radiator is optimum but on many new cars some cooling lines on the engine sit higher at some point so there are air bleeds in them.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
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From: Cleveland, Ohio 44011
I don't have my T56 yet, so I don't know exactly what height the output shaft is at, relative to the engine's crank centerline.... but, so far it looks like they line up pretty well, if anything, the diff pinion flange is slightly HIGHER than the trans output shaft.
Thanks though, I will make sure that they line up into that range.
Any other reasons?
Thanks though, I will make sure that they line up into that range.
Any other reasons?
I don't have my T56 yet, so I don't know exactly what height the output shaft is at, relative to the engine's crank centerline.... but, so far it looks like they line up pretty well, if anything, the diff pinion flange is slightly HIGHER than the trans output shaft.
Thanks though, I will make sure that they line up into that range.
Any other reasons?
Thanks though, I will make sure that they line up into that range.
Any other reasons?
I looked at your site... interesting concept. Keep us posted on how it goes. I hope you are a good welder, if you aren't you will by the time the project is complete! Sorry about the transmission deal.
The main reason for the angle is parts longevity. I don't like to rebuild or replace stuff unnecessarily. Replacing a custom driveshaft is foolish, expensive and dangerous (because it came apart at speed) simply from having incorrect angles. I know 2 guys in separate incidents who lost a u-joint that took out the tail shaft of their transmission and nearly lost the car in the process - extreme case, but it happens.
The link below will tell you everything you need to know about trans-rear alignment. You need the two shafts to be parrallel, preferrably when under some load. Having the engine higher/lower than the trans or even offset side to side is OK as long as the total U joint angle is within some range.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...line-101.shtml
Simply tilting your engine 1 to 5 degrees is not going to do it. It has to match the diff. In theory if you use the laser pointer idea in the link above you might be able to align the motor and diff without the trans, but you will have to redo it anyway once you get the trans so you might as well wait until then.
As for the engine itself, I had the same worry when I did my swap. I rotated the diff to where it is almost level. That allowed me to get the hood clearance I needed without the tail of the trans dragging on the ground. That in turn means my engine sits almost level. I wondered about oil drainage and what not. Then I decided that the small amount of tilt was nothing compared to going down a hill (or accelerating at max G's) and just didn't worry about it.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...line-101.shtml
Simply tilting your engine 1 to 5 degrees is not going to do it. It has to match the diff. In theory if you use the laser pointer idea in the link above you might be able to align the motor and diff without the trans, but you will have to redo it anyway once you get the trans so you might as well wait until then.
As for the engine itself, I had the same worry when I did my swap. I rotated the diff to where it is almost level. That allowed me to get the hood clearance I needed without the tail of the trans dragging on the ground. That in turn means my engine sits almost level. I wondered about oil drainage and what not. Then I decided that the small amount of tilt was nothing compared to going down a hill (or accelerating at max G's) and just didn't worry about it.
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Staging Lane
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From: Cleveland, Ohio 44011
Then I decided that the small amount of tilt was nothing compared to going down a hill (or accelerating at max G's) and just didn't worry about it.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
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From: Cleveland, Ohio 44011
You really need the transmission you are going to use (or a good mockup of it) to get accurate measurements. Your angles are going to be dictated by engine and transmission mounts. Without the transmission mount you really can't mount the engine and everything is guesswork.
Looking into rebuilding a core vs buying a good used 6 speed.. we'll see Trending Topics
As a machine designer, we set ujoints at 3degs. This allows for a little rolling of the needles, and keeps re-greasing the needles. Less of an angle causes the grease to just squeeze out, leading to brinnelling of the races. More of an angle (more than 5-6 degs) causes big forces on the ujoints as the middle member of the driveshaft speeds up and slows down twice per rev. Check online with Dana or Zurn, they have precise info. Whatever you do, get the diff pinion at the same angle as the engine crank so that the speed-up/down of the middle member does not also apply the the diff.
Whenever I see a really lifted truck, I think to self: That guy is good at changing ujoints.......
Whenever I see a really lifted truck, I think to self: That guy is good at changing ujoints.......
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Staging Lane
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 78
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From: Cleveland, Ohio 44011
As a machine designer, we set ujoints at 3degs. This allows for a little rolling of the needles, and keeps re-greasing the needles. Less of an angle causes the grease to just squeeze out, leading to brinnelling of the races.
My driveline is at zero degrees, as is my differential. I know the approximate distance between them, but still don't know the exact location of the trans output shaft..
I hope it ends up pretty close to 3 deg once I get the t56 modeled, or I'm not sure how I'll get it right.. The differential must be at zero deg, as the suspension mounts to it, and the engine/trans is designed in at zero.. so really it just comes down to the distance between them and their difference in height..
