Is My LS2 Porsche 911 Cooling Setup Going to Work?
06-25-2010, 09:18 AM
#22
Regarding the oil cooler I do believe I could possibly squeeze a 25 row if needed. Currently I have a 6 row and plenty of room in the rear fender. My body style is a turbo wide body and has a big *** like J-Lo 
I do think the comments about not relying on the fans to keep the engine cool is the best direction. I will need to do more test to see what the temperatures reach with/without the fans.
Unfortunately I have already removed the front mount oil cooler and lines so this is not an option, also was able to make $300+ for it so it had to go
[QUOTE=lazylongboarder;13507721]Well put.
Back on subject. Basically it would be difficult to put too large of coolers in these cars. So leave the front mount rad/oil cooler an option if trial and error doesn't work with the rear mount. I believe Toy-Jet played around with a few different wing designs.
I do think the comments about not relying on the fans to keep the engine cool is the best direction. I will need to do more test to see what the temperatures reach with/without the fans.
Unfortunately I have already removed the front mount oil cooler and lines so this is not an option, also was able to make $300+ for it so it had to go
[QUOTE=lazylongboarder;13507721]Well put.
Back on subject. Basically it would be difficult to put too large of coolers in these cars. So leave the front mount rad/oil cooler an option if trial and error doesn't work with the rear mount. I believe Toy-Jet played around with a few different wing designs.
06-25-2010, 08:07 PM
#24
Great looking exhaust work.
That oil cooler will not influence the temps enough. Much too small for this motor. You'll want something twice as big and used in tandem. No joke. It takes quite a bit to keep these motors cool on the oil side. They will frequent 280*+ on the street, on the track you've got to be careful. You might change your mind after monitoring the temps.
I just purchased a similar widebody with "S" side ducts and bumper. I needed more tire. Did you do the install? I'm iffy on the rear quarters.
Here is my cooler mounted in the same spot as your rad. I've moved it up front on top of the ron davis. This setrab measures 28"x19"x2"
It is paramount that you get a cooler 4-6X the size of the one you've got mounted in direct airflow if you're going to use the car on track.
I must have missed it, what year is the chassis?
That oil cooler will not influence the temps enough. Much too small for this motor. You'll want something twice as big and used in tandem. No joke. It takes quite a bit to keep these motors cool on the oil side. They will frequent 280*+ on the street, on the track you've got to be careful. You might change your mind after monitoring the temps.
I just purchased a similar widebody with "S" side ducts and bumper. I needed more tire. Did you do the install? I'm iffy on the rear quarters.
Here is my cooler mounted in the same spot as your rad. I've moved it up front on top of the ron davis. This setrab measures 28"x19"x2"
It is paramount that you get a cooler 4-6X the size of the one you've got mounted in direct airflow if you're going to use the car on track.
I must have missed it, what year is the chassis?
06-27-2010, 07:54 AM
#25
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i don't remember this being covered in your build thread and sorry for the off topic question , but what muffler are you using behind the bumper?
can you shed some more ligh on your exhaust setup?
can you shed some more ligh on your exhaust setup?
06-27-2010, 01:55 PM
#26
06-27-2010, 11:54 PM
#27
Correct, the 2 side mufflers are Dynomax turbo mufflers and the one mounted in the rear bumper is a Dynomax X-over. I was trying to maintain a euro sound without sounding to much like a Vette which I achieved. I am also thinking about having a set of test pipes made to remove the 2 turbo mufflers for upsetting the neighbors.
The work was done at a local shop called S&R,they do great work but was not cheap. The U-bends and metal all came from a reputably place out of Canada called Vibrant.
Attached are some pics
The work was done at a local shop called S&R,they do great work but was not cheap. The U-bends and metal all came from a reputably place out of Canada called Vibrant.
Attached are some pics
06-28-2010, 12:02 AM
#28
What size tire are you running now? I had custom Avus wheels made for mine before they went out of business and got a crazy deal for my 19". I am running a 19"X12 in the rear with a 295 now bu will go with a 305 in a couple of months. I have to mill down my rear spacers to pull in the offset so the tires do not hit the fender.
I purchased the car with the body kit already installed and painted, from what I can see and been told it is from Better Bodies
Agree on my cooler, seemed like a good idea at the time when I was unsure of space. I am going to take measurements when I return to the states and order the largest possible to fit in the side rear. Air flow may not be optimal so will consider a a small fan or something.
What are you running for rear suspension? I have noticed my rear end has dropped about 1" or more from the extra weight and I was thinking of coil overs to have more adjustable range.
I purchased the car with the body kit already installed and painted, from what I can see and been told it is from Better Bodies
Agree on my cooler, seemed like a good idea at the time when I was unsure of space. I am going to take measurements when I return to the states and order the largest possible to fit in the side rear. Air flow may not be optimal so will consider a a small fan or something.
What are you running for rear suspension? I have noticed my rear end has dropped about 1" or more from the extra weight and I was thinking of coil overs to have more adjustable range.
Great looking exhaust work.
That oil cooler will not influence the temps enough. Much too small for this motor. You'll want something twice as big and used in tandem. No joke. It takes quite a bit to keep these motors cool on the oil side. They will frequent 280*+ on the street, on the track you've got to be careful. You might change your mind after monitoring the temps.
I just purchased a similar widebody with "S" side ducts and bumper. I needed more tire. Did you do the install? I'm iffy on the rear quarters.
Here is my cooler mounted in the same spot as your rad. I've moved it up front on top of the ron davis. This setrab measures 28"x19"x2"
It is paramount that you get a cooler 4-6X the size of the one you've got mounted in direct airflow if you're going to use the car on track.
I must have missed it, what year is the chassis?
That oil cooler will not influence the temps enough. Much too small for this motor. You'll want something twice as big and used in tandem. No joke. It takes quite a bit to keep these motors cool on the oil side. They will frequent 280*+ on the street, on the track you've got to be careful. You might change your mind after monitoring the temps.
I just purchased a similar widebody with "S" side ducts and bumper. I needed more tire. Did you do the install? I'm iffy on the rear quarters.
Here is my cooler mounted in the same spot as your rad. I've moved it up front on top of the ron davis. This setrab measures 28"x19"x2"
It is paramount that you get a cooler 4-6X the size of the one you've got mounted in direct airflow if you're going to use the car on track.
I must have missed it, what year is the chassis?
06-28-2010, 06:01 PM
#30
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Shanghai, do you have a build cost estimate? What would it cost for you to part ways with this one? Who did a majority of the conversion parts come from. I have always been a 911 guy on a camaro/corvette budget.
06-28-2010, 07:17 PM
#31
If you do the majority of the work yourself, I believe it can be done for around $20-25k including the car if you do it on the really cheap and still have it look decent. There's a huge variance, but if you get a used motor, chassis from a dismantler, and a decently priced gearbox you could cut down some of the price/time. But be prepared to spend no less than 4k on the used trans.
Todd - LS 911/964/993 cab is one of my dream projects and might be my next. 915 + cab = '83-'86?
My previous tire size was 275/40/17 and barely fit under the narrow fenders
Dirty - 289-17554 3'' 289-17553 2.5''
Last edited by lazylongboarder; 06-28-2010 at 09:14 PM.
06-29-2010, 02:14 AM
#33
It is a labor of love and you should get much satisfaction out of doing it yourself. I have had many turbo cars ranging from 300hp miata's. RX7's, MR2's and a muscle Saleen's but my eye has always been on the 993 body style Porsche. I was lucky enough to come across a guy who had already put big bucks into an 81SC to look like a wide body turbo.
Regarding the cost of the build and assuming you already have a tranny and will do the work yourself budget for a minimum of $10K. I have kept a spreadsheet and will try to paste. My build took time and was slow due to work and crazy world travel so I would check forums and Ebay weekly for parts I needed. There was also trial and error which would result in the selling of parts
I think it is also worth mentioning that I parted out every piece of my 3.0 SC motor and made money in the process. Example: Heads $575, Crank $600, P&C's $600. I actually walked away with close to $8K from parting my engine out.. Price on Porsche Parts are sick and the older cars are getting harder to find used parts
Item Description Actual
1 Used LS2 Engine $2,400.00
2 New LS6 Oil Pan $175.00
3 85mm SLP Mass Flow Sensor $28.00
4 Z06 Shorty manifolds $175.00
5 Exhuast gaskets $32.99
6 Exhuast studs $33.99
7 85mm Throttle Body $72.35
8 Belts $20.00
9 IAC Valve $35.00
10 Oil Cooler adapter $125.00
11 PCM $135.00
12 O2 Sensors $140.00
13 Altenator $59.95
14 mini hi torque starter $119.99
15 Spark Plug Wires $64.00
16 Coil Packs for ignition $170.00
17 Mufflers Duals $237.00
18 Exhaust welding and U bends $680.00
19 Tips $40.00
20 4-in-1 Tach with sending units $65.00
21 Custom Oil Cooler and fittings $60.00
22 Crank Pulley $71.30
23 Renegade custom cradle assembly, billet aluminum adapter plate, billet flywheel, custom pilot bearing, water pump and fittings, billet aluminum coolant inlet/outlet plates and fittings, custom aluminum filler neck, in line filler "T", coolant outlet "log", custom alternator bracket, Gates green stripe hose, belt, and hardware. $2,450.00
24 CUSTOM ENGINE WIRING HARNESS: $400.00
25 COOLANT TEMP SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering. $25.00
26 OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering. $45.00
27 CUSTOM OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT ADAPTER $35.00
28 CUSTOM ALL ALUMINUM 911 AIR INLET ADAPTER: For the tight intake bend at the fire wall. $240.00
29 Pressure plate $335.00
30 Throw out bearing $160.00
31 Starter Ring Gear $120.00
32 Throttle cable kit $169.00
33 HIGH PERFOMANCE 915 KEVLAR SPORTS CLUTCH DISK: We use a superior Kevlar compound for a "streetable" combination that holds up to 500 HP. This insures a smooth engagement and better holding power than anything else on the market. (Proper break-in required. Call for more info.) $375.00
34 Radiator welding for 20An fittings $45.00
35 20AN fittings for Radiator $25.00
36 Goodrich 710 flex hoses $100.00
37 Custom Rear mount Radiator $150.00
$9,613.57
Regarding the cost of the build and assuming you already have a tranny and will do the work yourself budget for a minimum of $10K. I have kept a spreadsheet and will try to paste. My build took time and was slow due to work and crazy world travel so I would check forums and Ebay weekly for parts I needed. There was also trial and error which would result in the selling of parts
I think it is also worth mentioning that I parted out every piece of my 3.0 SC motor and made money in the process. Example: Heads $575, Crank $600, P&C's $600. I actually walked away with close to $8K from parting my engine out.. Price on Porsche Parts are sick and the older cars are getting harder to find used parts
Item Description Actual
1 Used LS2 Engine $2,400.00
2 New LS6 Oil Pan $175.00
3 85mm SLP Mass Flow Sensor $28.00
4 Z06 Shorty manifolds $175.00
5 Exhuast gaskets $32.99
6 Exhuast studs $33.99
7 85mm Throttle Body $72.35
8 Belts $20.00
9 IAC Valve $35.00
10 Oil Cooler adapter $125.00
11 PCM $135.00
12 O2 Sensors $140.00
13 Altenator $59.95
14 mini hi torque starter $119.99
15 Spark Plug Wires $64.00
16 Coil Packs for ignition $170.00
17 Mufflers Duals $237.00
18 Exhaust welding and U bends $680.00
19 Tips $40.00
20 4-in-1 Tach with sending units $65.00
21 Custom Oil Cooler and fittings $60.00
22 Crank Pulley $71.30
23 Renegade custom cradle assembly, billet aluminum adapter plate, billet flywheel, custom pilot bearing, water pump and fittings, billet aluminum coolant inlet/outlet plates and fittings, custom aluminum filler neck, in line filler "T", coolant outlet "log", custom alternator bracket, Gates green stripe hose, belt, and hardware. $2,450.00
24 CUSTOM ENGINE WIRING HARNESS: $400.00
25 COOLANT TEMP SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering. $25.00
26 OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT: With correct VDO output. Please specify your gauge value when ordering. $45.00
27 CUSTOM OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT ADAPTER $35.00
28 CUSTOM ALL ALUMINUM 911 AIR INLET ADAPTER: For the tight intake bend at the fire wall. $240.00
29 Pressure plate $335.00
30 Throw out bearing $160.00
31 Starter Ring Gear $120.00
32 Throttle cable kit $169.00
33 HIGH PERFOMANCE 915 KEVLAR SPORTS CLUTCH DISK: We use a superior Kevlar compound for a "streetable" combination that holds up to 500 HP. This insures a smooth engagement and better holding power than anything else on the market. (Proper break-in required. Call for more info.) $375.00
34 Radiator welding for 20An fittings $45.00
35 20AN fittings for Radiator $25.00
36 Goodrich 710 flex hoses $100.00
37 Custom Rear mount Radiator $150.00
$9,613.57
06-29-2010, 02:20 AM
#34
My car has fooled many Porsche purist in being a 993. 915 + CAB = 81SC
Everything from the interior to the windshield wiper conversion was swapped and modified. I need to get a new 993 style top to be complete
Can you see from the pictures what gives it away?
Everything from the interior to the windshield wiper conversion was swapped and modified. I need to get a new 993 style top to be complete
Can you see from the pictures what gives it away?
Renegade quotes $19-22k+car to do it right because many 911 guys don't do they're own work. It's pretty entertaining reading through the Porsche forums and seeing thread titles like "My first oil change" and "What exactly is a combo wrench?" and "Air box to cone filter guide inside". Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great info on those boards, but it's a different world.
If you do the majority of the work yourself, I believe it can be done for around $20-25k including the car if you do it on the really cheap and still have it look decent. There's a huge variance, but if you get a used motor, chassis from a dismantler, and a decently priced gearbox you could cut down some of the price/time. But be prepared to spend no less than 4k on the used trans.
Todd - LS 911/964/993 cab is one of my dream projects and might be my next. 915 + cab = '83-'86?
My previous tire size was 275/40/17 and barely fit under the narrow fenders
New widebody is getty's +1.5'', 335/30/19 and 275/30/19
Dirty - 289-17554 3'' 289-17553 2.5''
If you do the majority of the work yourself, I believe it can be done for around $20-25k including the car if you do it on the really cheap and still have it look decent. There's a huge variance, but if you get a used motor, chassis from a dismantler, and a decently priced gearbox you could cut down some of the price/time. But be prepared to spend no less than 4k on the used trans.
Todd - LS 911/964/993 cab is one of my dream projects and might be my next. 915 + cab = '83-'86?
My previous tire size was 275/40/17 and barely fit under the narrow fenders
Dirty - 289-17554 3'' 289-17553 2.5''
06-30-2010, 12:11 AM
#35
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thanks for the part numbers ,
and looking at it now , do you think that would be the right muffler to use, since the exhaust pulses will hit each other and will have to do a sharp turn to exit?
did you try it with and without that muffler to see if there is a difference?
and i'm not porsche expert by any means , but let me take a guess on what gives your car away: is it the corner of the side window where it meets the top?
and looking at it now , do you think that would be the right muffler to use, since the exhaust pulses will hit each other and will have to do a sharp turn to exit?
did you try it with and without that muffler to see if there is a difference?
and i'm not porsche expert by any means , but let me take a guess on what gives your car away: is it the corner of the side window where it meets the top?
06-30-2010, 04:26 PM
#36
Should be fine. This is a 997 turbo/gt2 aftermarket setup. There have been many 911's with this style muff
12-20-2010, 10:30 AM
#37
Update:
Finally got around to changing out the oil sending unit and experimenting with my coolant system. As suspected I was using the wrong oil temp sending unit and once changed oil temp is staying steady @ 194F
I also added a larger 25 row oil cooler which fit perfectly and decided to move foward with the dual intake setup. Intake was a tight fit and had to weld the pipe directly to the MAF to clear.
In regards to the radiator and trying different combination's of anti freeze Vs distilled water here are the results:
50/50 Tap Water + Dexcool (GM Recommended Antifreeze)
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside Temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 198~205F. Average coolant temp @ 200F.
Distilled Water
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. Average coolant temp @ 194F.
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 192~194F. Average coolant temp @ 192~194F.
Conclusion:
Distilled water significantly reduces max operating temp by 7 degrees while DEI Radiator relief provides an additional 4 degree and safety for lubricating the system. Since I live in Florida and do not need to worry about snow, ice or freezing I see no benefits for using Dexcool.
Finally got around to changing out the oil sending unit and experimenting with my coolant system. As suspected I was using the wrong oil temp sending unit and once changed oil temp is staying steady @ 194F
I also added a larger 25 row oil cooler which fit perfectly and decided to move foward with the dual intake setup. Intake was a tight fit and had to weld the pipe directly to the MAF to clear.
In regards to the radiator and trying different combination's of anti freeze Vs distilled water here are the results:
50/50 Tap Water + Dexcool (GM Recommended Antifreeze)
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside Temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 198~205F. Average coolant temp @ 200F.
Distilled Water
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. Average coolant temp @ 194F.
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: 30min idle time while sitting in the garage with no incoming air (Outside temp 60F). Fan's pulling in air and pushing over the intake and engine. Temp range after heated up was 192~194F. Average coolant temp @ 192~194F.
Conclusion:
Distilled water significantly reduces max operating temp by 7 degrees while DEI Radiator relief provides an additional 4 degree and safety for lubricating the system. Since I live in Florida and do not need to worry about snow, ice or freezing I see no benefits for using Dexcool.
12-20-2010, 10:37 AM
#38
Lazyboarder
I am re-thinking my exhaust and removing the 3rd X-over muffler mounted under the rear bumper. Not only from a restriction perspective and weight but also think it is having impact on my alternator belt.
What is your setup and how would you describe the sound?
Do you think that running 2 side mufflers alone and straight out the back would be to load? I have Dyno Max Turbo mufflers now
I am re-thinking my exhaust and removing the 3rd X-over muffler mounted under the rear bumper. Not only from a restriction perspective and weight but also think it is having impact on my alternator belt.
What is your setup and how would you describe the sound?
Do you think that running 2 side mufflers alone and straight out the back would be to load? I have Dyno Max Turbo mufflers now
12-21-2010, 10:08 AM
#39
Outside temp a little higher today and decided to put some load on the engine with a couple of high RPM passes. Here are the results
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. 3 passes under acceleration and the temp raises to 205~210 then settles back down to 198F while in idle.
I am a bit concerned that in 98F degree Florida weather these numbers will raise 5~10F which is on the high side of my goal.
What do you guys think about a 160F thermostat?
I believe I have a 180F which I will need to confirm with RH
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. 3 passes under acceleration and the temp raises to 205~210 then settles back down to 198F while in idle.
I am a bit concerned that in 98F degree Florida weather these numbers will raise 5~10F which is on the high side of my goal.
What do you guys think about a 160F thermostat?
I believe I have a 180F which I will need to confirm with RH
12-21-2010, 10:10 AM
#40
Outside temp a little higher today and decided to put some load on the engine with a couple of high RPM passes. Here are the results
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. 3 passes under acceleration and the temp raises to 205~210 then settles back down to 198F while in idle.
I am a bit concerned that in 98F degree Florida weather these numbers will raise 5~10F which is on the high side of my goal.
What do you guys think about a 160F thermostat?
I believe I have a 180F which I will need to confirm with RH
Distilled Water + DEI Radiator Relief
First test: Temp range after heated up was 194~198F. 3 passes under acceleration and the temp raises to 205~210 then settles back down to 198F while in idle.
I am a bit concerned that in 98F degree Florida weather these numbers will raise 5~10F which is on the high side of my goal.
What do you guys think about a 160F thermostat?
I believe I have a 180F which I will need to confirm with RH
