No problem man. I'm glad you found the parts you were looking for.

Hey Jim....good to hear from you. Yeah, I've been on a little break from the car lately, but the cool air got me a little motivated to run the car at the track again and do a little work on it while I was at it.

Tonight I put the exhaust system back on and screwed in a couple narrow band O2 sensors into my new bungs, just to be sure I got the bungs positioned where I intended to have enough clearance for the sensors. Looks like they'll work just fine. I have a couple plugs coming from Summit in a few days to screw in until I have access to a wideband.

 

Great work as always! You couldn't have positioned the sensors any better.
Question about the wideband: Do you use a special O2 sensor to read the AFR? Did you buy a kit? How much for the setup, if you dont mind me asking?
From what I have read, the wideband is the way to go. Back in the day everyone used EGT but the wideband is so much more compact and alot more accurate. While you are tuning the carb in, get it set as close to perfect with N/A and figure out which jets to run it a little fat for the NO2. If 70+lbs shortened the 1/4 mile you need to put that girl on some weight watchers. Lexan windows? cross braces in the door? fiberglass deck lid? Again great work and I cant wait to see the final results.

 

Thanks Tony. I got sort of lucky with the sensor positions . I mean.....I climbed under there and marked where I thought they should go......but its still more luck thank skill. What's that old saying......I'd rather be lucky than good?

About the wideband: A wideband oxygen sensor is different from a narrow band oxygen sensor like the ones many (not all) OEMs use, in that it can accurately detect Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR) over a very wide range of ratios, whereas a narrow band sensor is only accurate at or very near 14.7:1 AFR. Most factory vehicles only take inputs from the O2 sensors during cruise and idle conditions where they are trying to maintain a 14.7:1 mixture. During WOT or PE mode, the PCM goes into "open loop" and the O2 sensor inputs are ignored. So their accuracy at the richer points of operation don't really matter.

So yes, a wideband sensor usually comes in a kit that would include the sensor itself, a "controller" that translates the sensors outputs into something meaninful (AFR), and some sort of display (either a gauge or a handheld unit). I do already own a wideband kit, but it's installed on my Trans Am. While I could use it on the Camaro, I'd prefer not to because that particular kit isn't terribly portable and would be a PITA to move from vehicle to vehicle. Thats because I have the gauge semi-permanently installed in a pillar pod and the controller's wiring is all soldered up to the cars power and ground and tucked under my console.

So I will probably buy another unit that contains the display and controller all in one package that can be moved from one car to another. Most unit like this also get their power from the vehicles cigarrette lighter or 12v power port, so that lack of wiring makes it much more portable as well. A buddy of mine has the FAST unit and I kinda like it's features. It allows datalogging so you don't have to watch the display while your driving. The unit itself only records AFR, but they make an add on kit that will allow you to log RPM along with AFR if you choose. They make two different kits; one is a single sensor and the other is a dual sensor. I don't think dual sensors are necessary, but if you thought the distrobution of fuel was drastically different from one bank of your engine to the other, it may be. From what I understand about the FAST kits though, the controllers are both dual sensor capable; but one part number comes with two sensors and the other one only comes with one sensor. Here are links to both of them. But there are many other wideband kits out there, so I'll be doing much more research before I buy. The one in my TA is an Innovate brand controller and I've had good luck with it too.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-170401/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-170402/

 

Great build. I'm doing the same thing to my 72.

 

Great build, love the 2nd gen cars!

 

Thanks for the kind words guys. 72ls1, do you have a build thread?

 

Gary I appreciate you taking the time to explain the wideband to me. Its people such as yourself that take the time to explain certain things that keeps the hobby alive. Some people would turn their noses to you and keep moving right along. I try to help out everyone possible with what little I know. Thanks again! I bought a book on fuel injected systems so as to learn a little about how everything works. I am about half way through and it has helped somewhat but I would really need to watch someone that is in "the know". I wonder what my tuner would charge to allow me to shadow him for awhile? Better yet I wonder what it would cost for a few lessons. It seems Gary you have been familiar with the LS series way longer than most on here.

Do you not run the T/A anymore?

 

^ i think i read in gmhtp there is a class offered by hp tuners that teaches alot, there was a few pages about t

 

that cars seen better days, cool swap though

 

If you haven't ordered the plugs yet, don't! I have a set you can have that came with the Dynatechs. Just let me know as I will never use them.

 

What a dick!!!

 

It's ok, he's made 51 worthless posts here on tech. Best I could find was him talking about his 92 Camaro "im running a t5 borg warner, 1.56 60' foot, with a 8.88 et."

Oh, really?

Me thinks someone is full of it.

 

Punk *** doesnt realize ITS A BUILD IN PROGRESS lol Hell ive seen 3rd & 4th gens lookin worse He prolly aint even got a 92 RS & I worked at Borg Warner a T5 isnt rated for much motor lol Nice work so far Keep it up & find me a 72 RS for the year I was born lol either a 307 or 6 banger It wont keep that long Prefer a 3 or 4 spd manual car lol For the Rookie makin an *** clown out of his self Thats pretty normal on a car that old Northern or ocean states are much worse

 

x 2

 

Thanks for the kind words Tony. I'm with you on the info sharing; that's what sites like this are supposed to be about as far as I'm concerned. I have gotten a lot of good info on this board over the years. There are guys on here that have probably forgotten more about LS engines than I'll ever know, but I'm still learning.

The tuning class that BOBS99SS mentioned sounds like a good idea if it's feasible for you to attend, but I'm confident you could figure out quite a bit of it on your own through research, reading, and trial and error. Heck, if I could figure it out, I'm sure you could. I'll never claim to be an expert tuner by any stretch, but with a wideband, good software like HP Tuners, and a little bit of knowledge, it's not too bad. I've done 100% of the tuning on my TA and I'm 100% happy with how it starts, idles, drives, and performs. I'm not saying a pro couldn't do it better....but I'm happy.

Not sure what you mean? Like do I run it at the track anymore? I still do, but I haven't for quite a while since it's been in storage in PA since summer 2010. I've driven it plenty when I've been back home, but I've avoided racing it since I was relying on it for my main mode of transportation while I was home. The other problem with the car is that it wouldn't pass tech anymore if anyone chose to scrutinize my ETs. The car runs pretty consistent mid-11s on the motor, and has dipped into the upper 11.30's in really good air. So, it basically needs a roll bar at this point and I don't want to go there with that car. I also have relocated the battery to the trunk, which isn't legal either because I don't have a bulkead and/or have it in a sealed box (hatchback car). And I also don't have a master disconnect switch installed either because I didn't want to put holes in the tail light or anywhere else visible on the car. So I now see it as my street cruiser since it's fuel injected, stick shifted, and has all the ammentities. The Camaro is still a "street car" with full interior and such, but I've done everything "right" on it so as to not get harrassed when I hit the track. My very, very, very (did I say very yet?) distant future plan for the TA is to do some sort of forced induction set up on the car.....most likely a Procharger.

Ah man Tony, that's very generous of you but mine just showed up from Summit yesterday . It was almost the same price to just get the plugs with bungs, so now I have an extra set of bungs with no plugs again...LOL. But I figure one day I may use these new bungs in a set of collector extentions.

 

I was gonna ignore this comment, but it looks like you guys have already "addressed" it......

RyanEricW, I'm not sure what the intent of your comment was, but I can see by the other replies below that I wasn't the only one who took it as being a bit insulting. But, to each his own I guess. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with 35-45 year old muscle cars (or anything other than matchbox cars for that matter), but there aren't many of them left out there that are still wearing all of their original sheet metal that haven't picked up some battle scars over the years. Enough said.

 

Well put! Sorry for stirring the pot but I have seen the time and effort you put into your car and you never gave up! Through back surgery and all!!! If you said the car was complete she would still be a sweet ride in current form. Nothing like ressurecting a classic from the elements and abuse they have endured for 40 years! Some people take stabs at others just for fun and really their comments have no material to them at all. Even if he owned an all original 69 Camaro ZL-1 in pristine condition doesn't give him any right to throw his .02 cents around in a negative way. Constructive criticism is fine but smart *** comments are not! I still haven't checked the cranking compression on my ride. Call me lazy or maybe in my mind I have already turned my back on the old engine. I got the specs on my new cam. I will send them to you via PM. Let us know how the wideband works out on the carb. I am curious to see what the AFR is on a warm day at full temps. I do have another question for you, "back in the day" I set my idle air screws by a vacuum gauge. Is the wide band going to help dial that in better and do away with the old vacuum method?

 

I way I see it, and you can look at my pile of junk as an example, I'd rather spend $2,000 on parts that will actually get me down the road quicker. Paint and straight body panels are for the lawn-chair crowd.

 

Oh, no problem at all.....LOL. You were just the first one to say out loud what it appears many others (myself included) were thinking.

I can't say that I blame ya much there man. If I had a sweet 408 in the works, I probably wouldn't care too much about the old 6.0L at this point either. I just had a strong suspicion that a fairly low cranking compression condition, combined with the fuel and spark plugs you were using could have been part of your tuning/performance issue. Who spec'd your new cam for the 408? Was it the same guys that are building the shortblock?I look forward to seeing the specs. I'll let you know what I find once I end up with a new wideband for the Camaro. I'm just not sure yet when that'll be. With saving what I can for our house purchase, the car has been put at a bit of a financial standstill.

The vacuum gauge method of setting the idle mixture is still a good method to use in the absence of a wideband. But, I would also say that using a wideband isn't necessarily the whole answer either. It just gives a lot better information than the vacuum gauge does. Theoretically, you would want your idle to be as close to 14.7:1 AFR as possible. From what I've seen, setting the mixture screws for the highest vacuum reading will get you close to that point, but not spot on. It seems that the idle mixture screws are extremely sensative to change when watching a wideband meter, but not nearly as sensative on a vacuum gauge. For example, it may take a half a turn of the mixture screws to register a change in vacuum. Yet that same half a turn could equal as much as one to two full AFR points richer or leaner on the wideband. So you could be at the highest vacuum reading but still have a ways to go to reach 14.7:1. So I guess the only reason i say a wideband still isn't the "perfect" tool for setting idle mixture is because not every combo is going to necessarily want to idle best at a "perfect" stoichiometric ratio of 14.7:1. That is just the ratio where the air and fuel is supposed to be most efficiently combusted. But, it's possible a specific combo may want to be a little richer or leaner to idle "happy".

 

That is priority number one for me too. I may SOMEDAY try and straighten a few panels, but every day I become more sure that the black primer look is here to stay.